Interesting quote

[TheEarl]

I found this whilst finding sources to directly contradict amicus (I'm bored, it's cheap entertainment).

With Theodore Roosevelt's pronouncement of his "Corollary" to the Monroe Doctrine in 1904, the intensity of American aggression, if anything, increased. In the corollary, President Roosevelt proclaimed that the United States, because it was a"civilized nation," had the right to stop "chronic wrong doing" throughout the world. "God," declared Senator Beveidge of Indiana in January 1900, "has made us master organizers of the world to establish system where chaos reigns. He has given us the spirit of progress to overwhelm the forces of reaction throughout the earth...Were it not for such a force such as this the world would relapse into barbarism and night."

Discuss.

The Earl

 

[cloudy]

I don't put a whole lot of stake in what Theodore Roosevelt said. He also said:

"I don't go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn't inquire too closely into the case of the tenth. The most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average Indian."

I find that sort of contradictory to "President Roosevelt proclaimed that the United States, because it was a"civilized nation," had the right to stop "chronic wrong doing" throughout the world."

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Rudyard Kipling said that, lamenting the heavy responsibility of being a White Christian European Male in a thankless world in 1900 or thereabouts.

It was the golden age of blind ethnocentrism and racial and religious superiority, when there was still debate whether your non-white natives--"half-devil and half-child"--even had souls and should be considered fully human. Certainly it was Europe and Christianity's duty to civilize them and bring them into the light, which was usually accomplished by invading them and taking their stuff, using them as slaves and working them to death.

In these enlightened times, colonialism and racial chauvinism are of course dead. We're in Iraq to fight terrorism, not to export our Western ideas to people who don't want them.

Oh wait. We're not?

 

[TheEarl]

I justl ike the automatic assumption of 'right' and that it is our duty to educate others if they're doing anything slightly different. Don't get me wrong, this isn't an attack on America; the UK is just as culpable in today's world.

It's the sheer presumption in the quote that I think still holds a lot of sway in current foreign policy.

The Earl

 

[cloudy]

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Rudyard Kipling said that, lamenting the heavy responsibility of being a White Christian European Male in a thankless world in 1900 or thereabouts.

It was the golden age of blind ethnocentrism and racial and religious superiority, when there was still debate whether your non-white natives--"half-devil and half-child"--even had souls and should be considered fully human. Certainly it was Europe and Christianity's duty to civilize them and bring them into the light, which was usually accomplished by invading them and taking their stuff, using them as slaves and working them to death.

In these enlightened times, colonialism and racial chauvinism are of course dead. We're in Iraq to fight terrorism, not to export our Western ideas to people who don't want them.

Oh wait. We're not?

Thank you.

 

[cloudy]

I justl ike the automatic assumption of 'right' and that it is our duty to educate others if they're doing anything slightly different. Don't get me wrong, this isn't an attack on America; the UK is just as culpable in today's world.

It's the sheer presumption in the quote that I think still holds a lot of sway in current foreign policy.

The Earl

I agree. The air of arrogant superiority that still exists here, and elsewhere, makes me gag.

 

[elsol]

I'm a rabid xenophobic isolationist.

We got Canadians to make fun off; they've got a french sector to make fun of us. Mexicans for cheap labor. And all the drugs we could ever want from Columbia.

Why do we have to go pissing in someone else's backyard?

We've nuked another country... TWICE! I think the intelligent ones get the message, and the dumb ones... well, that's what nukes are for, dammit!

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[rgraham666]

Reading that quote I once again thought how easily people forget who is actually God in their relationship with The Almighty.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Agreed, imperialism is an ugly thing. Then again, is it better to sit back and say, "We've got ours. Stuff those buggers over there, let them suffer"?

If it were black and white it would all be easy.

Shanglan

 

[McKenna]

Theodore Roosevelt is to America what Frank Burns is to M*A*S*H.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I justl ike the automatic assumption of 'right' and that it is our duty to educate others if they're doing anything slightly different. Don't get me wrong, this isn't an attack on America; the UK is just as culpable in today's world.

At the time of that quote, the UK was probably even more chauvinistic than the US. Kipling was writing for and about Britain.

No, there's nothing wrong with trying to help other people and stop wars and hunger, but when you go in there with your religion, say, and tell them "You're all wrong and stupid and barely human, and here's what you should believe," you've crossed the line between helping and interfering.

 

[sincerely_helene]

At the time of that quote, the UK was probably even more chauvinistic than the US. Kipling was writing for and about Britain.

No, there's nothing wrong with trying to help other people and stop wars and hunger, but when you go in there with your religion, say, and tell them "You're all wrong and stupid and barely human, and here's what you should believe," you've crossed the line between helping and interfering.

I agree, if that is worth anything.

 

[impressive]

At the time of that quote, the UK was probably even more chauvinistic than the US. Kipling was writing for and about Britain.

No, there's nothing wrong with trying to help other people and stop wars and hunger, but when you go in there with your religion, say, and tell them "You're all wrong and stupid and barely human, and here's what you should believe," you've crossed the line between helping and interfering.

Geez, doc! Don't you know that the hunger and wars occur BECAUSE they are wrong and stupid and barely human for believing the way they do? (Just ask Pat. He'll tell ya!)

 

[amicus]

There is another new thread from a regular about helping a senior citizen who had fallen and injured herself.(edited to add: by Liar)

While the bashing of the US and Teddy, 'big stick' Roosevelt and of course past present and future foreign policies of the United States, aside from the polemic, there may be something worthwhile in the original question.

Just as the good samaritan went to the aid of the injured person, personally known to him, many others might well risk life and limb to rescue a child from a burning building or from drowning.

So, what is, or is there, a moral imperative involved when one stranger helps another?

Are we morally obliged to lend assistance to others if we can?

They still make movies about the horrors of the Normans and the Saxons, ( watched a remake of Robin Hood recently) so perhaps it will take another thousand years before those who wish to bash America about the Native Americans, Blacks and women will fade away.

Notwithstanding that, what is the moral obligation of one human to another and then by projection, one nation to another, to come to ones aid in time of distress.

Ayn Rand (I love it how you bristle at just a name) Ayn Rand stated that the United States has the 'moral right' to invade any country the violated the basic human rights of its citizens.

Africa with the starvation and disease, might provide a good example. China with its ruthless 'one child only' laws, might be a candidate. Middle eastern nations who do not consider women as possessors of full human rights might qualify.

Putting aside the rhetoric of the left, with the 'white man's burden', and the inane justification of 'saving souls' by the religious nuts, there is a true question in terms of the framework of helping other human beings in distress, wherever in the world they may reside.

amicus...

 

[elsol]

Agreed, imperialism is an ugly thing. Then again, is it better to sit back and say, "We've got ours. Stuff those buggers over there, let them suffer"?

If it were black and white it would all be easy.

Shanglan

Yes... it is.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[elsol]

Middle eastern nations who do not consider women as possessors of full human rights might qualify.

..

You don't consider women worthy of full human rights.

Next Week... On Fox NewsChannel:

The Rangers invade Amicus's home.

"We must fight misoginy and racism wherever we find it!" says President George W. Bush. "It's not enough that they DO what we want... they must THINK what we want... have FAITH in what we want... BELIEVE IN OUR GOD! HALLELUJAH... Let us take a moment to pray for the souls of unbelievers!"

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Bishonen]

With Theodore Roosevelt's pronouncement of his "Corollary" to the Monroe Doctrine in 1904, the intensity of American aggression, if anything, increased. In the corollary, President Roosevelt proclaimed that the United States, because it was a"civilized nation," had the right to stop "chronic wrong doing" throughout the world. "God," declared Senator Beveidge of Indiana in January 1900, "has made us master organizers of the world to establish system where chaos reigns. He has given us the spirit of progress to overwhelm the forces of reaction throughout the earth...Were it not for such a force such as this the world would relapse into barbarism and night."

Some animals are more equal than others.

 

[amicus]

Some animals are more equal than others.

Hello Bishonen...your sn is not familiar to me...welcome to the forum.

That period of history wherein European powers were colonizing all over the world is an interesting one for sure. The Catholic Missionaries in South America is just one example of the Messianistic complex or imperative expressed by King and God in most all western nations.

If it suits you to single out the United States, then so be it. You might include the English, the Portuguese, Spaniards, French, Dutch and Germans, as they all colonized and essentially claimed, 'Manifest Destiny' also.

amicus...