Interact 1 "Road to Judgement" Tathagata

[twelveoone]

PLEASE READ
Interact

I was asked a question on a Public Comment about a recent poem by two separate readers (cool!)
I thought this might be a good opportunity to start up a new thread......

A place for readers to ask questions about poetry out in public,
and writers or others may choose to respond.


Like my favorite teacher used to tell us....

quote: For every person brave enough to ask a question,
there are ten wishing someone would ask.




There are many poems I am left thinking
“Hmmm what was that all about”
“Where did they get that idea?”
and this may work as a more open forum.


Please be constructive, not destructive on this thread.
Curious, not critical.
If someone is an ass, I suggest that we give them a Talk to the Hand sign and
ignore their ignorance.




SeattleRain

"If the unexamined life be not worth living, perhaps the unexamined writing is not worth reading?"- HomerPindar

I cannot state the purpose of this better than SeattleRain, nor come up with a better quote.,

Tathagata is one of my favourite poets here, there are many things that he has written, that I wish I had found the words. He has received ten comments on this poem. And truth is, this is one of my favourites. I find it a rather heroic attempt at putting into words what must of been a rather difficult and confusing time, and confusion is always difficult to write about. A lot can be learned just by reading, but, I feel more can be learned by discussing it.
If you just wish to tell him he did a wonderful job, do so here http://www.literotica.com:81/stories/storyfeedbackboard.php?id=156638&pagehint=1#cid50211where it counts
This is to serve as dialogue between the author and the audience about the poem and the writing of it. - 1201

Any comments or suggestions about the thread not about the poem, please here
https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=229053

 

[twelveoone]

http://www.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=156638

Road of Judgement
by Tathagata ©
I've seen myself,
as if looking down on a postcard,
wandering
back to moments, places,
looking for phantoms of understanding,
stains of happiness,
some clue
to what it all meant,
only to discover what I already knew...

There is nothing left.

The ghost of Christmas past
and I,
Ebenezer,
confronted with shadows
that can't hear or see me,
playbacks of innocuous days
that, in retrospect,
would be cold bone exclamation points
plunged into my brain.

The way my hand traces
the scar,
unconsciously
reliving the cause and effect,
pink smooth karma.

So I put my feet upon the path
of attempted recapture,
and the maze winds out
with familiar footsteps.

And he stumbled the first time.

The windows are broken
or covered with someone else's curtains.
They wave sardonically
as I try to get close enough to see past
the dust and dirt.
Once inside, I'm a stranger
in a strange land,
as if I've stumbled
into some private moment.
I back-pedal,
cursed and confused.

He falls a second time, scourged and forsaken

Rocks are sand.
Water is dry or brackish,
pooled in dying hollows,
growing fainter
with my memories.

To dust we shall return.

Bars are closed,
words and laughter
are frozen confetti,
hanging in air
until the clock strikes.

each hour wounds...the last one kills.

Women are traces of perfume,
lipsticked wine glasses, the swish of nylon,
but something tugs at my spine....

"What was it about her?"

Eyes glaze and I recall
legs, skirts, laughter
and kisses,
skin like spun cream
and bad times,
crown of thorns
cast out in the marketplace
and the fear
all that misery might leave me.
Again.

It's better than being alone.
Right?

The third and final fall...bloodbowed,beyond reclamation

But all that is a blurred mural
on a faded snapshot,
something just beyond recognition,
tip of the tongue hesitation.
The more you try,
the wilder the whirlpools.

Sun bleached.
Wind worn.
Snow covered.
Dead and dying.

In myriad colors
these once vital things,
now ghoulish,
decimated,
lacking life.

No trace of conscience remains,

and nothing of the man
I once was
either.

 

[twelveoone]

My questions

First, is there any part, that you feel, needs the most improvement?

The windows are broken
or covered with someone else's curtains.
They wave sardonically
as I try to get close enough to see past
the dust and dirt.
Once inside, I'm a stranger
in a strange land,
as if I've stumbled
into some private moment.
I back-pedal,
cursed and confused.

In this section there seems to be an akwardness here.
"windows are broken or covered"
one assumes the curtains are waving sardonically,
and then you are trying to "see past the dust and the dirt" on what?
" stranger in a strange land" - Heinlein, right? Can you describe the feeling you are trying to convey with this allusion?

Eyes glaze and I recall
legs, skirts, laughter...

...crown of thorns
cast out in the marketplace

Could you explain why you use
"crown of thorns
cast out in the marketplace"
in this section?

"Rocks are sand.
Water is dry or brackish,
pooled in dying hollows,"

Here you give the audience no choice with "Rocks are Sand" then a choice of water either being dry or brackish
What was your intent here with your wording?

 

[Tathagata]

Re: My questions

First, is there any part, that you feel, needs the most improvement?

The whole thing could always be improved. I agree with whoever said " No poem is ever really finished", you just reach a place where you can't do any more without doing harm

The windows are broken
or covered with someone else's curtains.
They wave sardonically
as I try to get close enough to see past
the dust and dirt.
Once inside, I'm a stranger
in a strange land,
as if I've stumbled
into some private moment.
I back-pedal,
cursed and confused.

In this section there seems to be an akwardness here.
"windows are broken or covered"
one assumes the curtains are waving sardonically,
and then you are trying to "see past the dust and the dirt" on what?
" stranger in a strange land" - Heinlein, right? Can you describe the feeling you are trying to convey with this allusion?



Well they are broken OR covered..this was a reference to going back to a house where my best friend and his mother were murdered. I wont go into the whole story suffice to say I'd often drive to where I'd spent some of the happy times of my life to see the house there with broken windows, blackened from the fire ( the father , after killing my friend and his mother tried to kill himself and then set the house on fire) in the upper windows there were still remnants of curtains that caught the breeze before the windows were boarded up.
As for the stranger in a strange land..the whole scene felt foreign to me. I grew up there, spent a large part of my life being part of that family...It was no longer the house I knew...it was a scene of horror and disbelief...and I knew the walls inside were spattered with blood.
I didn't want to see that.

Eyes glaze and I recall
legs, skirts, laughter...

...crown of thorns
cast out in the marketplace

Could you explain why you use
"crown of thorns
cast out in the marketplace"
in this section?
I had a girlfriend who was prone to public fighting.
I grew up with the belief that all unpleasantness should be hidden and discussed in private. She used to make scenes in restaurants, and, once in Harvard Square in Cambridge ( hence the market place) I bore this all silently because, at the time, I thought I loved this women. So..The Jesus metaphor, sacrificing my " comfort" for love came into play.
The crown of thorns was the great sex we had..if I wanted that I'd have to put up with the public tantrums...I didn't for long..but when you are 24 and getting some great poom poom..you put up with a lot LOL

"Rocks are sand.
Water is dry or brackish,
pooled in dying hollows,"

Here you give the audience no choice with "Rocks are Sand" then a choice of water either being dry or brackish
What was your intent here with your wording?



That everything is in transition, and you can't go back to what was...it's no longer there.
Ponds dry up...or become stale, rocks disintegrate and eventually become sand..it's also why I said " to dust we shall return" in the poem . The whole poem is me looking back over things and choices I made and seeing that all that is now gone..and the person I was when all that happened is gone to..so I should let go of it all. I hope this answered most of what you wanted to know...If you have other questions feel free to ask

 

[twelveoone]

Re: Re: My questions

Here you give the audience no choice with "Rocks are Sand" then a choice of water either being dry or brackish
What was your intent here with your wording?



That everything is in transition, and you can't go back to what was...it's no longer there.
Ponds dry up...or become stale, rocks disintegrate and eventually become sand..it's also why I said " to dust we shall return" in the poem . The whole poem is me looking back over things and choices I made and seeing that all that is now gone..and the person I was when all that happened is gone to..so I should let go of it all. I hope this answered most of what you wanted to know...If you have other questions feel free to ask

thank you, I had no idea as to the scope of this, and it was not my intent to reopen any past horrors.That was a nice word linkage between" to dust" and "rocks to sand".
Here is what I was thinking when I asked about:
Rocks are sand. (this is a dimishing action)
Water is dry or brackish, (this is either an impossibility OR a dimishing action)
pooled in dying hollows," (here you state that it was a dimishing action)
Understand, I hate doing this, and am only doing so for clarification purposes, and I am not suggesting THIS as a rewrite.
Rock turns to sand
Water drys, becomes brackish
Pooling in dying hollows
(somebody check my syntax)
I have a better idea as to why you used "or" in the other instances. Thank you once again.

 

[SeattleRain]

you know I love the sounds and images and beautiful phrasing lack of cliche and I do not necessarily want to know what each one means.

Here is my situation. While each of these unusual or cryptic phrasing gives me an individual feel, vision, interpretation, when there are so many in a row, my impressions get twisted and at the end I am left with a basket full of impressions and ideas and I miss the main message.

I have a short attention span
I am a visual thinker
I get this mosaic of snapshots
close up

you know the kind I mean
snapshots cut and pasted into a collage and when you stand back far enough you see Elvis.

or the Earth.


So
with all of your snapshots so vivid and beautiful, I am having a hard time standing far back enough to see Elvis.

Can you summarize this poem for me, not the meaning of it, but if you stand back

what do you see? one shot?

please

short
attention span
poor short term memory


thanks for humoring me with this

 

[Tathagata]

you know I love the sounds and images and beautiful phrasing lack of cliche and I do not necessarily want to know what each one means.

Here is my situation. While each of these unusual or cryptic phrasing gives me an individual feel, vision, interpretation, when there are so many in a row, my impressions get twisted and at the end I am left with a basket full of impressions and ideas and I miss the main message.

I have a short attention span
I am a visual thinker
I get this mosaic of snapshots
close up

you know the kind I mean
snapshots cut and pasted into a collage and when you stand back far enough you see Elvis.

or the Earth.


So
with all of your snapshots so vivid and beautiful, I am having a hard time standing far back enough to see Elvis.

Can you summarize this poem for me, not the meaning of it, but if you stand back

what do you see? one shot?

please

short
attention span
poor short term memory


thanks for humoring me with this

the back of a man with crown of thorns smoking a cigarette walking across and endless expanse of desert...and the wind has blown most of his footsteps away...except for maybe the last 3 or 4....

 

[twelveoone]

Re: Re: Re: My questions

Here is what I was thinking when I asked about:
Rocks are sand. (this is a dimishing action)
Water is dry or brackish, (this is either an impossibility OR a dimishing action)
pooled in dying hollows," (here you state that it was a dimishing action)
Understand, I hate doing this, and am only doing so for clarification purposes, and I am not suggesting THIS as a rewrite.
Rock turns to sand
Water drys, becomes brackish
Pooling in dying hollows
(somebody check my syntax)

BTW - great summary - give it line breaks
But, you are not getting away from me that easy, let me rephrase as a question. Did I make any sense here?
Do you see why I am focusing on "water is dry"?
if there was a series of impossibilities, i.e.
Water is dry
War is peace
Love is hate
1201 is nice
that would be one thing

 

[Tathagata]

Re: Re: Re: Re: My questions

BTW - great summary - give it line breaks
But, you are not getting away from me that easy, let me rephrase as a question. Did I make any sense here?
Do you see why I am focusing on "water is dry"?
if there was a series of impossibilities, i.e.
Water is dry
War is peace
Love is hate
1201 is nice
that would be one thing

And this is one of those questions I told you you might not understand. "Water had dried up, water's been dried" all sounded wrong. It just came out "water is dry"...meaning it was gone..the" imprint" of the pond was there but no water. It just fit when I sounded it out. Trust me...not everything in my poems should be taken literally LOL..half the time, as you've seen, I'm talking about things the reader would have no way of knowing...I just try and convey the " feeling" more than a description..

 

[twelveoone]

Thank you

Tath,
I wish to thank you for participating in this little experiment that Tara, anna, and I are doing. I had no idea of the scope of your poem, the time frame seems to be your entire life. I would also see any further revisions of it that you might make.
I bow, without the bamboo stick.
1201