Intelligent Design Again, and the Speed of God

[dr_mabeuse]

Reading about the evolution of life on earth, I found that there was a huge, huge span of time between when the first cells appeared about 3500 million years ago (3.5 billion years to Americans) and the time when we saw the first multi-celled animals (about 550 million years ago.) These primitive one-celled organisms (algae and bacteria) had the earth all to themselves for about 85% of the time there's been life on the earth.

That made me think: if life is due to intelligent design, what was the designer doing all this time?

This pattern of evolution is pretty much just what we'd expect of random-mutation directed evolution though. Things went very slow until cells started banding together into organisms, which multiplied the chances of mutation astronomically. Once you had multi-celled creatures, mutation and the development of life sky-rocketed.

And once sexual reproduction was developed—about 500 million years ago, it looks like (before that it was all asexual, by cellular splitting or fission)—the chance of mixing genes and mutations jumped again, and things really took off.

If you're a believer in ID and in God or a Designer of some kind, what does that say about the time scale he operates in? We always assume that God operates on our time scale, that he doesn't move a lot slower or faster than we do (else why would he have made us operate at this speed?) But what was he doing for those 3000 million years?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Reading about the evolution of life on earth, I found that there was a huge, huge span of time between when the first cells appeared about 3500 million years ago (3.5 billion years to Americans) and the time when we saw the first multi-celled animals (about 550 million years ago.) These primitive one-celled organisms (algae and bacteria) had the earth all to themselves for about 85% of the time there's been life on the earth.

That made me think: if life is due to intelligent design, what was the designer doing all this time?

This pattern of evolution is pretty much just what we'd expect of random-mutation directed evolution though. Things went very slow until cells started banding together into organisms, which multiplied the chances of mutation astronomically. Once you had multi-celled creatures, mutation and the development of life sky-rocketed.

And once sexual reproduction was developed—about 500 million years ago, it looks like (before that it was all asexual, by cellular splitting or fission)—the chance of mixing genes and mutations jumped again, and things really took off.

If you're a believer in ID and in God or a Designer of some kind, what does that say about the time scale he operates in? We always assume that God operates on our time scale, that he doesn't move a lot slower or faster than we do (else why would he have made us operate at this speed?) But what was he doing for those 3000 million years?

Planting fake bones of crateures that never lived of course

 

[Guest]

i'd like to think he/she/it was busy setting up another galaxy somewhere else.

but you know, i was thinking about this the other day while watching a show on the potential for a super volcanic eruption in yellowstone...the earth seems to me to be like a teenager...growing and expanding. a giant pimple (read: volcano) getting ready to explode in the next how many thousands of years...dandruff polar caps...drought/flood (the 'T' zone on the face) ...all a huge balancing act for what??? ever evolving? maturity? the end? hrm...
i wonder if there is a twin planet out there... what is the evolution like there? i can not be so arrogant as to believe that we are the only intelligent life. makes ya think.

 

[Guest]

I presume that God is infinite...and has all the time the world...all the time in the universe.

Under Christian premise...MAn was created with all the time as well...but lost it in the fall and was condemned to death. With the death and resurection as "payment" for that sin...and acknowledgement of that we again get eternal life.

not so complicated nor at odds (in my book).

fits in with evelution AND creation.

believe it or not.

 

[Guest]

Reading about the evolution of life on earth, I found that there was a huge, huge span of time between when the first cells appeared about 3500 million years ago (3.5 billion years to Americans) and the time when we saw the first multi-celled animals (about 550 million years ago.) These primitive one-celled organisms (algae and bacteria) had the earth all to themselves for about 85% of the time there's been life on the earth.

That made me think: if life is due to intelligent design, what was the designer doing all this time?

Christmas shopping.

There's never enough time.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Christmas shopping.

There's never enough time.

ROFLMAO!

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Christmas shopping.

There's never enough time.

Yeah. I can see it now. "There's a nice cell nucleus I can get for Nostoc, and those mitochondria are just perfect for Paramecium. I wonder if Euglena could use some new cilia?"

I always liked the part in Genesis where God just got so tuckered out by creation that he had to take a day off and just kick back in the garden. I wonder what it was that just wore him out so much.

 

[mismused]

delete

 

[woodnymph_O]

I don't know why, but as I was reading this I had a weird mental immage of God as merlin from the sword in the stone, when he was packing and cleaning the house.
Ikity smickity whickity whack odds and ends and brick a brack.....
then he falls down all tired at the end.
I must need coffee

where was I ?
oh yes, Hockety pockety ,,,,,

 

[thebullet]

Not to get scientific on you, but I saw a show the other day that claimed that twice in Earth's history (that can be documented), the world was a snowball; i.e., glaciers covered the Earth, pole to pole.

The first time was about 2.5 billion years ago. The glaciation was apparantely caused by the evolution of photosynthesis. Prior to that, microorganisms were producing Methane, a green house gas, which kept the Earth warm. But with the development of photosynthesis, Oxygen was given off. The green house gases decreased (there were no creatures yet evolved that used oxygen and gave off waste Carbon Dioxide) and the Earth cooled (the Sun was much cooler then, according to this story). Earth froze over and most life forms were killed off.

Earth evenutally (after millions of years), warmed up and life went on - still with only microorganisms (unicellular). The second freezing occurred about 600 million years ago, again killing off most life on earth. It was during the second thawing that multicellular creatures evolved, about 550 million years ago.

So, if the earth had not turned into a snowball, we would not be here today.

All part of God's great and glorious plan.

 

[NoJo]

That made me think: if life is due to intelligent design, what was the designer doing all this time?

He was probably posting on bulletin boards until the inspiration returned.

 

[Guest]

He was probably posting on bulletin boards until the inspiration returned.

so, that brings us to two different conclusions in my mind (scary that)
either you or the good doc are ....supreme beings.!

 

[NoJo]

so, that brings us to two different conclusions in my mind (scary that)
either you or the good doc are ....supreme beings.!

I don't think I'm a supreme being, but I sometimes move in mysterious ways, especially after sitting at my desk all day.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I don't think I'm a supreme being, but I sometimes move in mysterious ways, especially after sitting at my desk all day.

I like you best when your spirit moves upon the face of the waters. If I stand just so, I can see up your robes.

 

[NoJo]

I like you best when your spirit moves upon the face of the waters. If I stand just so, I can see up your robes.

I saw a Rabbi who could have passed for God -- (you know, long white beard, booming voice, etc), but he had dandruff.

 

[impressive]

If you're a believer in ID and in God or a Designer of some kind, what does that say about the time scale he operates in? We always assume that God operates on our time scale, that he doesn't move a lot slower or faster than we do (else why would he have made us operate at this speed?) But what was he doing for those 3000 million years?

It was intentional, of course. This whole debate was foreseen by the Creator -- and He wanted to make sure we had plenty to chew on.



Oh -- and mismused is morphing into CharleyH, I think.

 

[Guest]

Yeah. I can see it now. "There's a nice cell nucleus I can get for Nostoc, and those mitochondria are just perfect for Paramecium. I wonder if Euglena could use some new cilia?"

I always liked the part in Genesis where God just got so tuckered out by creation that he had to take a day off and just kick back in the garden. I wonder what it was that just wore him out so much.

to relax is devine

 

[amicus]

Not to get scientific on you, but I saw a show the other day that claimed that twice in Earth's history (that can be documented), the world was a snowball; i.e., glaciers covered the Earth, pole to pole.

The first time was about 2.5 billion years ago. The glaciation was apparantely caused by the evolution of photosynthesis. Prior to that, microorganisms were producing Methane, a green house gas, which kept the Earth warm. But with the development of photosynthesis, Oxygen was given off. The green house gases decreased (there were no creatures yet evolved that used oxygen and gave off waste Carbon Dioxide) and the Earth cooled (the Sun was much cooler then, according to this story). Earth froze over and most life forms were killed off.

Earth evenutally (after millions of years), warmed up and life went on - still with only microorganisms (unicellular). The second freezing occurred about 600 million years ago, again killing off most life on earth. It was during the second thawing that multicellular creatures evolved, about 550 million years ago.

So, if the earth had not turned into a snowball, we would not be here today.

All part of God's great and glorious plan.

Damn it all, Bullet, you beat me to it. I also saw that program and just last night, a follow up program that added one thing at least. During the first 'snowball effect' when the build-up from carbon dioxide released by vulcanism and contained in the atmosphere as there were no oceans to absorb the CO2, the oxygen content was about one percent.

When the second 'snowball effect' melted, that 'methane' content expanded hugely and left the current level of oxygen content in the atmosphere, about 20 percent.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Vella said: "...i'd like to think he/she/it was busy setting up another galaxy somewhere else.

but you know, i was thinking about this the other day while watching a show on the potential for a super volcanic eruption in yellowstone...the earth seems to me to be like a teenager...growing and expanding. a giant pimple (read: volcano) getting ready to explode in the next how many thousands of years...dandruff polar caps...drought/flood (the 'T' zone on the face) ...all a huge balancing act for what??? ever evolving? maturity? the end? hrm...
i wonder if there is a twin planet out there... what is the evolution like there? i can not be so arrogant as to believe that we are the only intelligent life. makes ya think...."

That super-volcano concept is scary, pretty much a forecast of an extinction level event (deep impact).

I like your 'teen age' analogy and I have thought before that compared to the length of the life of planet earth, measured in billions of years, that human existence, sentient, self aware life, is just a sliver of time, a few thousand years.

Not nearly enough time for us to plan on migration to another planet should an event of that level be forecast.

Yet the possibility of a catclysmic event that would leave the earth barren of all but the basic forms of microbial or baterial life cannot be denied.

And the purpose? Beyond human life, sentient life...there can be no purpose, life in whatever form, is its own justification.

But I suppose a faith in Easter Bunnies and Santa Claus is comforting to some.


amicus...

 

[English Lady]

I presume that God is infinite...and has all the time the world...all the time in the universe.

Under Christian premise...MAn was created with all the time as well...but lost it in the fall and was condemned to death. With the death and resurection as "payment" for that sin...and acknowledgement of that we again get eternal life.

not so complicated nor at odds (in my book).

fits in with evelution AND creation.

believe it or not.

Put me in the corner with God's time is sooooo not our time. we're finite, He ain't.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I'm more of a pantheist, so I think of God in impersonal terms, which, to me, explains everything. God and Nature are one and the same.

 

[impressive]

I'm more of a pantheist, so I think of God in impersonal terms, which, to me, explains everything. God and Nature are one and the same.

If I'm gonna be any sort of "-theist" it would be the pantheist sort. *nods*

 

[Guest]

wrong!
no, you're wrong!

am not!
are so!
am not!
are so!

Am not-Infinitey!

 

[Selena_Kitt]

God and Nature are one and the same.

yes! This is the most profound thought/idea I've seen in this thread...

do we question how long it takes a flower bud to open? a butterfly to struggle itself from its cocoon? And if we do question these things, if we start messing with the natural course of events, bad things happen... we are seeing that everywhere in our society...

I love this little parable... and I feel its relevant:

BIRTH OF A BUTTERFLY

A biology student was watching a butterfly emerge from it's cocoon. It was a long, dramatic and difficult process, involving much struggle on the part of the butterfly, before it emerged tired and bloody.

The butterfly rested, dried its wings, and then flew away.

Keeping this laborious struggle in mind, the student sat down to watch another butterfly emerge. But this time, made a tiny cut in the top of the cocoon, to make it easier for the butterfly to emerge.

This passage was much shorter, the butterfly appearing in a matter of minutes.

However, this butterfly did not fly away. Indeed, its wings were not capable of flight, and hung flaccid and useless at its side.

It was only then that the student discovered that the butterfly's struggle of emergence served a purpose- To pump blood out of its body and into it's wings to make them capable of flight. In making the butterfly's passage easier, the student had kept it from developing as it needed to.

 

[amicus]

Selena....

I wonder if your parable might be expanded to include the teenage years of homo sapiens?

And while I do not coddle up to the God/Nature concept...I rather think it was science that gave us the ability to observe the chrysalis and comprehend the struggle to exist.

amicus...

 

[mismused]

delete