Installing WindowsXP Redux

[Bob Peale]

Well, now that the carnage is over, I thought I’d pass on some info about the upgrade in case any of you brave souls are actually considering upgrading to WinXP.

First off, by way of clarification, WinXP allows for two types of installations – Upgrade and Clean.

• Upgrade - Means just what it says - it upgrades your current system to WinXP, preserving all of your files, applications, etc.
• Clean - Erases all of the data on the drive/partition you are installing to and installs a fresh, brand spanking new copy of WinXP.

Of the two, if at all possible, you really want to do a Clean install. A lot of the reviews I read said this, but of course I didn’t believe it. The upgrade goes fine (honest!), but the problem I encountered after the fact was that while WinXP upgrades fine, it makes certain allowances for incompatible drivers/applications that are already on the computer. When you upgrade to a version of those same drivers/applications that have been developed for WinXP, the operating system still found some of the conflicting parts of the predecessor software. If you do a Clean install, you have to reinstall all of your applications, but you get a cleaner integration.

Some Things to Do BEFORE you install XP (Whether You Choose an Upgrade or a Clean Install):

1. Get a copy of Norton Antivirus 2002 – previous versions don’t run under XP.
2. If you use PartionMagic, get a copy of PartionMagic 7.0 – again, previous versions are not compatible with XP.
3. Download the trial version of Easy CD Creator 5.1 Basic ( http://www.roxio.com/en/products/ecdc/basictrial.jhtml ).
   This is a VERY important step! Easy CD Creator 4 IS NOT supported under XP, nor is Easy CD Creator 5.0 – 5.02, regardless of what you may read! On both the Upgrade and the Clean install it did not recognize I couldn’t get any program other than 5.1 to recognize my CD-RW drive.
4. Download a copy of the Microsoft Virtual Machine (http://www.microsoft.com/java/vm/dl_vm40.htm ). You’ll need this to view web pages that use Java (like Lit Chat).
5. Back up your data files, program settings, etc. to CD or tape (including Easy CD Creator Basic 5.1 and Microsoft Virtual Machine). Yes it’s a pain in the ass, but what are you going to do? Also, if you usually use DirectCD, make the CD readable by any drive. In the event that you encounter a problem installing Easy CD Creator, you’ll still be able to read the CD through XP.
   [/list=1]
   If You Chose to Upgrade:
   1. Do not install any cross platform software (like Norton Antivirus 2002 or PartitionMagic 7.0) before you upgrade.
      You’ll have to reinstall after the upgrade anyway.
   2. Uninstall any software that you are going to reinstall after the upgrade
      Not the same as No. 1 – if you already have older versions of PartionMagic, NAV, etc., uninstall them before you upgrade (DO NOT uninstall EasyCD Creator until after the upgrade though!). Also, uninstall things like AIM that you don’t need so that you can reinstall them in XP.
   3. Uninstall any software that you are going to reinstall after the upgrade
      Not the same as No. 1 – if you already have older versions of PartionMagic, NAV, etc., uninstall them before you upgrade (DO NOT uninstall EasyCD Creator until after the upgrade though!). Also, uninstall things like AIM that you don’t need so that you can reinstall them in XP.
   4. Back up your data files, program settings, etc. to CD or tape (including Easy CD Creator Basic 5.1 and Microsoft Virtual Machine). Yes it’s a pain in the ass, but what are you going to do? Also, if you usually use DirectCD, make the CD readable by any drive. In the event that you encounter a problem installing Easy CD Creator, you’ll still be able to read the CD through XP.
      [/list=1]
      If You Chose to Clean Install:
      1. Back up your data files, program settings, etc. to CD or tape (including Easy CD Creator Basic 5.1 and Microsoft Virtual Machine). Yes it’s a pain in the ass, but what are you going to do? Also, if you usually use DirectCD, make the CD readable by any drive. In the event that you encounter a problem installing Easy CD Creator, you’ll still be able to read the CD through XP.
      2. If you only have one drive (c:\) IT WILL BE ERASED!
      3. If you have multiple drives, only the one that XP is being installed on will be erased; but I’d still back up my files from the other drives, just in case.
         [/list=1]
         Some Myths about XP:
         1. XP installs IE 6, which doesn’t support Java –
            Untrue. While it does install IE 6, downloading the Microsoft VM (see link above) provides Java support.
         2. I can only install XP once because of the nefarious “activation” scheme –
            Untrue. I’ve already installed twice (one upgrade and one clean). The activation technology prevents you from installing a single copy on multiple machines; it does not prevent you from reinstalling on the same one. The code that is generated is generated from the software serial number and 10 Hardware components on your machine. When you reinstall, as long as those components are there, everybody is happy. As long as your network card remains the same, XP doesn’t care if you change a number of components (I think 6) before it suspects that you’ve switched machines. And if you change the network card, you can still change some of the other components (I think the limit is 4) before a call is required to reactivate. Also, after 120 days, the activation code resets, Basically, this means that there is no longer a record of the code associated with that serial number, so if you were to build a new machine with souped up parts, get rid of your old, you could use your XP disk to install XP on the new machine with no problem after 120 days have passed since you first activated.
         3. Bill Gates wants to rule the bloody world and XP is the first step–
            Untrue. Why stop at the world when you can have the whole universe?
            [/list=1]

 

[Cheyenne]

Thanks for all the info! I'm waiting just a bit to order my new pc so it will come with Windows XP on it. I don't even want to go through the free upgrade process with the certificates being offered with new machines a few weeks ago when I first checked out Dell.

 

[Bob Peale]

Smart move!

FYI all PCs have been shipping with XP for about a month.

If there are going to be multiple users on the machine, you want to get XP Professional rather than XP Home (Both support multiple users, but Professional allows you to restrict the ability of people to see files and provides a lot more administrative/management features)

 

[Willing and Unsure]

just and FYI here... win2000 is very similar to winXP... only you dont have to be so specific in everything as for the types of programs and so on (i.e. cd creator 5.1 instead of 4, etc) and it does run java scripts, so you dont have to install that separately.. and the way it runs is almost the same too.. i find it very nice and easy to use

 

[xwizard4]

Before you buy a new computer, go to a Macintosh/Apple reseller and have them demo one of their puters for you. Mac came out with a new OS about 4 months ago based on the linux system and have already tweaked and upgraded it with version OS 10.1.

Macs start at $800. for the Imac and up to $2500. for the PowerMac G4, the fastest home computer you can buy. And you'll have much less worry about viruses since most of them are designed to attack pc's.

Although you will have to familiarize yourself with a computer that doesn't run windows, in the long run Macs are easier to use.

 

[Guru]

 

[Willing and Unsure]

Of course the downside of changing over to a Mac is that you have to buy all new software. Just a minor thing.

minor but expensive

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

just and FYI here... win2000 is very similar to winXP... only you dont have to be so specific in everything as for the types of programs and so on (i.e. cd creator 5.1 instead of 4, etc) and it does run java scripts, so you dont have to install that separately.. and the way it runs is almost the same too.. i find it very nice and easy to use

Well, for some reason CD Creator and Direct CD can do bad things on NT (W2K or XP) if you don't have the right version. My CDR/RW drive is a bit old so it came with CD Creator 3.0 and of course that won't work with W2K; it just hangs and Direct CD can hang too. I think I will just go out and get a new CDR/RW drive as mine is slow anyway, and it is a cheaper way to get the software than buying it from Adaptec (Roxio).

For now I am sticking with W2K as it is stable and I don't see any advantage to upgrading to XP. In a year or so maybe there will be a work around for the activation crap, or maybe MS will rethink that strategy.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Before you buy a new computer, go to a Macintosh/Apple reseller and have them demo one of their puters for you. Mac came out with a new OS about 4 months ago based on the linux system and have already tweaked and upgraded it with version OS 10.1.

I developed for both the Mac and Windoze at my last job, and got to see OSX quite a while before the public. While it is certainly an improvement over previous Mac Oses (especially from a programmer's perspective), last time I saw it (about 6 months ago), it was not quite ready for user prime time; there were still a lot of devices and apps that would not work on it. I would recommend anybody considering OSX check out what does and does not work there yet. It is a complete rewrite/redesign - not just an evolution, so it may be a while before all the kinks are worked out of it.

Although you will have to familiarize yourself with a computer that doesn't run windows, in the long run Macs are easier to use.

This is now false. I have been a Mac user since they first came out with just 128k of RAM, and the only storage was a 400k floppy (I even used a Lisa several times), and back then they beat the pants of just about everything else in the home pc market. They continued to be the leader for some years.

But even the most ardent Mac/Apple fan has to admit that Apple sat on their hands and refused to change for years while other OSes moved ahead. I still remember the frustration I had when I wanted to do something that was so simple on Windoze that I had to load some new utility or extension to do on the Mac (such as unlock a whole bunch of locked files). The stubborn insistence of Apple in sticking with certain user interface principles (the single button mouse for intsance) just caused them to drop further and further behind.

If a person is used to Windoze then there would be a substantial investment in time in learning how to work with Macs, and not just the apps, but the OS too. The cost of apps and the computer pales in comparison to the time spent learning a new OS and the different apps.

 

[Bob Peale]

just and FYI here... win2000 is very similar to winXP... only you dont have to be so specific in everything as for the types of programs and so on (i.e. cd creator 5.1 instead of 4, etc) and it does run java scripts, so you dont have to install that separately.. and the way it runs is almost the same too.. i find it very nice and easy to use

Actually, that's not exactly true.

There are a lot of applications and harware developed for non commercial uses that do not run under Win2K.

Also, the file system between Win2K and WinXP is slightly different (hence the reason why PartitionMagic 6.0 will not work on WinXP).

Finally, since XP has become the new operating system (for commercial as well as home users), if you are going to migrate, why migrate to an operating system that MSFT is no longer developing on?

 

[Skibum]

Although you will have to familiarize yourself with a computer that doesn't run windows, in the long run Macs are easier to use.

I HATE my Mac. I can't wait until I can afford a new PC!

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Actually, that's not exactly true.

There are a lot of applications and harware developed for non commercial uses that do not run under Win2K.

Just about anything written for NT, whether NT4, W2K or XP should run on XP, especially if they do not directly work with devices. Adaptec, or now Roxio, probably is not very good about behaving in NT; 3.0 won't run on W2k where it did on NT4, and now 4.0 won't work on XP, so I suspect they either do some end runs around the OS, and/or they have some low level drivers they install that changed. The latter theoretically shouldn't matter since NT drivers are supposed to work on all NT OSes, but it often doesn't work out that way.

Also, the file system between Win2K and WinXP is slightly different (hence the reason why PartitionMagic 6.0 will not work on WinXP).?

Probably true enough - NT 4, W2K and Xp can all use NTFS if you choose that format for the partition (which is a better idea than the FAT system), but PM and other disk utilities often needs to upgraded with small file system changes.

Finally, since XP has become the new operating system (for commercial as well as home users), if you are going to migrate, why migrate to an operating system that MSFT is no longer developing on?

You mean WinME/98/95? They haven't stopped completely, but they will, and NT is the future. As for OS development, ME will probably get a few Service Packs (Service Pack is an MS euphamism for bug fixes), then dropped.

MS is making big noises about dropping non-NT devo work because they want people to buy and adopt XP. Most businesses have already upgraded to W2K when they install new OSes, and most developers went to NT/W2K years ago due to its stability. The company I worked for dropped all non-NT Windoze development work years ago - but then their cheapeast app was $5K.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Excuse me... I don't call having the go to the company's website and dl a modem choking file having that file 'included' in the software. If I physically have to leave my machine and pick up a box and pay through the nose for a seven cent CD for crissakes I want to have EVERYTHING for it.

Also MacOS X uses a unix base, I think, not linux. Either way it runs apache pretty nicely unless you're doing it on a 56K

 

[Bob Peale]

Probably true enough - NT 4, W2K and Xp can all use NTFS if you choose that format for the partition (which is a better idea than the FAT system), but PM and other disk utilities often needs to upgraded with small file system changes.

XP actually uses what MSFT called NTFS 5.1 in testing and development. It's just different enough that occasionally it will cause problems with NT specific apps, but not as often with Win2K (NTFS 5) specific apps.

 

[xwizard4]

I realize this thread is not really about apple vs. pcs but when cheyenne mentioned buying a new computer I felt it was worth mentioning that there is another choice. Everyone always gets excited over new products(especially with all the hype). I'm not even sure why mac went with a linux based os but I have a feeling Evil Lord Gates will come out with his own version soon.

My first experience with computers was with a pc running windows and all I did was a little web surfing and word processing. I've had an Ibook now for 7 months so I'm much more familiar with the way a Mac works and I don't see how anything could be any easier. And I've gotten into many more applications than websurfing without buying any new software. When I worked in the printing industry, all of the computer nerds who did the commercial graphics/design/pre-press work didn't want anything to do with pcs running windows.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Excuse me... I don't call having the go to the company's website and dl a modem choking file having that file 'included' in the software. If I physically have to leave my machine and pick up a box and pay through the nose for a seven cent CD for crissakes I want to have EVERYTHING for it.

Are you referring to the JVM?

Also MacOS X uses a unix base, I think, not linux. Either way it runs apache pretty nicely unless you're doing it on a 56K

OSX is based on Darwin, which is yet another open source version of Unix, which Linux is also. The main thing is that OSX now supports pre-emptive multitasking, a good file system, and the latest versions of Java and the JVM.

 

[OUTSIDER]

Mac......*shudders*........eeeewwwwwww no thank's.


The only time I had to use a mac I hated it with a passion, in fact it almost turned me off of computers forever, luckily I found a PC and never looked back.

If you love macs then good luck to ya but I'll never have one in the house.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Are you referring to the JVM?

Yup. There's supposed to be other goodies for dl, too.

OSX is based on Darwin, which is yet another open source version of Unix, which Linux is also. The main thing is that OSX now supports pre-emptive multitasking, a good file system, and the latest versions of Java and the JVM.

Right. I need to upgrade.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

I'm not even sure why mac went with a linux based os but I have a feeling Evil Lord Gates will come out with his own version soon.

Apple went to a Unix base because Jobs pushed it (Next started out based on the Mach kernel which was at one time based on Unix - but microkernel instead, closer to the architecture of NT on a conceptual level) - and it is a good thing; there is a hell of a lot of Linux software that can be ported to OSX, although it won't be as easy as porting to other Unix versions. The biggest advantage from my perspective is that OSX now fully supports the latest version of Java.

When I worked in the printing industry, all of the computer nerds who did the commercial graphics/design/pre-press work didn't want anything to do with pcs running windows.

The company I worked for and still own stock in, is the leader in the Prepress software market (impostion software mostly) and their market target uses 85% Mac although the software was cross platform and was the same for both Mac and Windoze. The larger printing companies like Donelly and so on are switching almost solely to Windoze NT. The software I worked on was written mostly on Windoze NT machines, then slight changes made to port to the Mac.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Shy Tall Guy
[quote[Are you referring to the JVM?

Yup. There's supposed to be other goodies for dl, too.

[/QUOTE]This (the JVM) is because MS is very anti-Java and is trying to make it hard for people to use Java; they want people to switch to that adbomination C-Sharp and "NET.".

 

[Spinaroonie]

This (the JVM) is because MS is very anti-Java and is trying to make it hard for people to use Java; they want people to switch to that adbomination C-Sharp and "NET.". [/QUOTE]

They don't like Java cos they don't control Java. It's sickening, they're trying to kill the next langugage which is just plain wrong.

.Net, passport, all wrong. Plus expensive to developers.

Speaking of which....
http://homepage.mac.com/jcarusone/iMovieTheater2.html

 

[Bob Peale]

That's one way to look at it.

Another is to look at how much more stable PCs have been, and how much easier it has been to share work between departments, associates, and friends since DOS was adopted as the standard.

Oh, damn; I just heard somebody open up a can of Whup Ass...what was I thinking?

 

[Cheyenne]

Since I spend a good part of my life on the pc, between my job and at home, I'm sticking with a pc and Microsoft. I bring home work to do in Excel, Word, etc. and want the same software here as I have in my office. I don't have any interest in ever becoming a pc geek- I want to be able to (as much as possible) turn the thing on and not have to worry about anything.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Since I spend a good part of my life on the pc, between my job and at home, I'm sticking with a pc and Microsoft. I bring home work to do in Excel, Word, etc. and want the same software here as I have in my office. I don't have any interest in ever becoming a pc geek- I want to be able to (as much as possible) turn the thing on and not have to worry about anything.

Well, here's the oddest thing:
Windows is at it's most stable if you install NO Microsoft products.