Inheritance Cycle aka Eragon vs Twilight

[LJ_Reloaded]

Which book series do you think was more poorly written?

And considering that Christopher Paolini, the writer of Inheritance Cycle, was 15, and Stephanie Meyer, the writer of the Twilight series, was in her 30s, would this bias your assessment?

I read the first book of both and could not bear to continue. Neither book was worth it, but I'm giving negative points to Meyer for being so much older and supposedly wiser. Negative points to Paolini for ripping off, well, what didn't he rip off? But also negative points to Meyer for those damned sparkling vampires and her absolutely suicidally dumbest fuck of all suicidally dumbfuck women in the history of writing, ever.

 

[lovecraft68]

I suppose I would cut the kid some slack for being a kid. I know anything I tried to write back then was a rip off of whatever I was into at the time.

Meyers on the other hand seemed to really kick this entire "pathetic, wimpy tween Vampire" genre off even though it had been done before (Thank you Lestat, Lewis and Anne Rice, fucking Pussy's!) so I guess she should get some credit.

Well credit from the people who don;t want to vomit when they se what she has done to the once respectable Vampire.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

I suppose I would cut the kid some slack for being a kid. I know anything I tried to write back then was a rip off of whatever I was into at the time.

Meyers on the other hand seemed to really kick this entire "pathetic, wimpy tween Vampire" genre off even though it had been done before (Thank you Lestat, Lewis and Anne Rice, fucking Pussy's!) so I guess she should get some credit.

Well credit from the people who don;t want to vomit when they se what she has done to the once respectable Vampire.

Plus she would have set women back by a hundred years if her book had truly set the pace for future romance writing.

 

[lovecraft68]

Plus she would have set women back by a hundred years if her book had truly set the pace for future romance writing.

Yeah good point there. I have daughters who fall into the target audience for this crap, and I would be appalled if they acted as naive and stupid as that dumb bitch.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

I have read all the books in both series, which is more then you can say.

Maybe this is a flaw, but I am able to suspend my disbelief and get sucked into the writer's world. I found both series when I was fairly young, so that also may have an influence. As for Eragon, I loved the first book when I was younger, and I still want to give him the credit for writing a fully-fledged plotted novel at his age. His writing DID get much better in the second and third novels, and I am eagerly awaiting 'Inheritance' the final novel in the series. I am able to overlook bad editing, and even a slightly clumsy writing style if I really love the story and the world the writer has created, which I do.

As for the Twilight series, again I have read all of the books. Unlike the Inheritance trilogy however, she isn't improving. I read the books before the movies even came out, so that may have some outcome on how I feel about them. Stephanie Meyer (and the directer who would later handle her movies) both have an absolutely TERRIBLE sense of timing and pacing. Conflicts appear clumsily, and seemingly out of nowhere. The worst perpetrator of clumsy timing is 'New Moon', but all of the books suffer to some extent.

I am something of an anomaly, because I liked the books. Emphasis on 'liked'. I did not love or hate them. Most who have read the books either love them or hate them, and anyone who hasn't read them hates them on principal. The Twilight saga is a very popular thing to hate right now. Because of the legion of Twilight-hating zombies, I get very defensive about my mild enjoyment of the books and movies.

In Twilight, I liked the set-up, I enjoyed the large fluffy werewolves, Edward (believe it or not) was actually pretty likable in the books (he definitely had more of a personality), at the time I loved anything with vampires, and I DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE SPARKLY VAMPIRES. It was the author's choice, and I wasn't going to dispute it. When I was reading it for the first time, it actually made sense to me.

The reason I 'like' the franchise instead of 'unashamedly like' the franchise, is because of the bitch, Bella. I agree, she is the cruelest, stupidest, most conniving character ever written as a female lead. In the first book she isn't too offensive, but Meyer wanted all girls across the country to identify with her, so Bella has the personality of a cardboard box. A SLUTTY cardboard box.

The books are inoffensive enough. In order from best to worst, Eclipse, Breaking Dawn, Twilight, New Moon.


If I have one message to impart, don't hate twilight because it is popular. If you have never seen a movie or read a book, don't judge it just because your friend said that sparkly vampires are stupid. If you don't bother to try, then you have no right to judge. I have read every word in both series, so I feel a little more competent to judge then someone who "Could not bear to continue"

--Cruel

 

[lovecraft68]

I have read all the books in both series, which is more then you can say.

Maybe this is a flaw, but I am able to suspend my disbelief and get sucked into the writer's world. I found both series when I was fairly young, so that also may have an influence. As for Eragon, I loved the first book when I was younger, and I still want to give him the credit for writing a fully-fledged plotted novel at his age. His writing DID get much better in the second and third novels, and I am eagerly awaiting 'Inheritance' the final novel in the series. I am able to overlook bad editing, and even a slightly clumsy writing style if I really love the story and the world the writer has created, which I do.

As for the Twilight series, again I have read all of the books. Unlike the Inheritance trilogy however, she isn't improving. I read the books before the movies even came out, so that may have some outcome on how I feel about them. Stephanie Meyer (and the directer who would later handle her movies) both have an absolutely TERRIBLE sense of timing and pacing. Conflicts appear clumsily, and seemingly out of nowhere. The worst perpetrator of clumsy timing is 'New Moon', but all of the books suffer to some extent.

I am something of an anomaly, because I liked the books. Emphasis on 'liked'. I did not love or hate them. Most who have read the books either love them or hate them, and anyone who hasn't read them hates them on principal. The Twilight saga is a very popular thing to hate right now. Because of the legion of Twilight-hating zombies, I get very defensive about my mild enjoyment of the books and movies.

In Twilight, I liked the set-up, I enjoyed the large fluffy werewolves, Edward (believe it or not) was actually pretty likable in the books (he definitely had more of a personality), at the time I loved anything with vampires, and I DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE SPARKLY VAMPIRES. It was the author's choice, and I wasn't going to dispute it. When I was reading it for the first time, it actually made sense to me.

The reason I 'like' the franchise instead of 'unashamedly like' the franchise, is because of the bitch, Bella. I agree, she is the cruelest, stupidest, most conniving character ever written as a female lead. In the first book she isn't too offensive, but Meyer wanted all girls across the country to identify with her, so Bella has the personality of a cardboard box. A SLUTTY cardboard box.

The books are inoffensive enough. In order from best to worst, Eclipse, Breaking Dawn, Twilight, New Moon.


If I have one message to impart, don't hate twilight because it is popular. If you have never seen a movie or read a book, don't judge it just because your friend said that sparkly vampires are stupid. If you don't bother to try, then you have no right to judge. I have read every word in both series, so I feel a little more competent to judge then someone who "Could not bear to continue"

--Cruel

Keep in mind that from what you have posted you are Twilights demographic age and sex. As opposed to myself who is most likely twice your age and LJ has a few years on me.

We are from the "Vampire as a bad ass" era and these pathetic wimpy little whiners make me ill. I think as much as I blame Anne Rice, angel from Buffy has a big influence on the sensitive Vampire. I give Buffy some slack though, because they also introduced pike who was a throw back to the bad ass Vampires.

 

[candlesfyre]

For a kid he was pretty damn good I think. Meyers was pretty good considering she was writing for the preteen generation. After all, you cant get real graphic in that age group... Plus, given this age group loves shiny expensive and rich things her vampire was like a new sex toy to them!

I have to give negatives to Meyers. I mean her vampires had no balls, no edge no nothing and then the werewolf takes the baby? Really? We cant write a decent sex scene but we can support statutory rape?

"Yes children never let others touch you unless its a good friend who wanted to screw your mommy"

WOW what a great message to send out to horny teenager! Thanks Meyers you truly are every pedophiles dream come true!

If they had put the werewolf with say Bella teenage daughter instead of a new born I wouldn't have had an issue but she didn't.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

If I have one message to impart, don't hate twilight because it is popular. If you have never seen a movie or read a book, don't judge it just because your friend said that sparkly vampires are stupid. If you don't bother to try, then you have no right to judge. I have read every word in both series, so I feel a little more competent to judge then someone who "Could not bear to continue"

--Cruel

I do not hate Twilight because it is popular. If I did, then I'd hate Harry Potter even moreso, and I absolutely loved the books and movies. No, I hate Twilight on pure principal. And my criticism is based on what I have seen and read. I've already outlined why so I won't go into that.

Considering that even you, a Twilight fan, say Paolini's writing improved, I am thinking I'll just go ahead and order the next 2 books on hardback and ebook format, and the third when it comes out. (Ebook to read, and the hardback to store in a safe place. )

 

[lovecraft68]

For a kid he was pretty damn good I think. Meyers was pretty good considering she was writing for the preteen generation. After all, you cant get real graphic in that age group... Plus, given this age group loves shiny expensive and rich things her vampire was like a new sex toy to them!

I have to give negatives to Meyers. I mean her vampires had no balls, no edge no nothing and then the werewolf takes the baby? Really? We cant write a decent sex scene but we can support statutory rape?

"Yes children never let others touch you unless its a good friend who wanted to screw your mommy"

WOW what a great message to send out to horny teenager! Thanks Meyers you truly are every pedophiles dream come true!

If they had put the werewolf with say Bella teenage daughter instead of a new born I wouldn't have had an issue but she didn't.

Hold on, are you saying that a baby is sexually assaulted in the movie/book? I have never read them and only saw a few minutes of the first movie when my daughter had it on.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

I have to give negatives to Meyers. I mean her vampires had no balls, no edge no nothing and then the werewolf takes the baby? Really? We cant write a decent sex scene but we can support statutory rape?

Quoted for the win.

 

[AutumnRayven]

I haven't read the Eragon series yet. I did read all of the Twilight saga. Bella was annoying. Suicidal and stupid, but so are a lot of teenagers so (Romeo and Juliet anyone?)...yeah she nailed the demographic. Taking that into account...I liked the story. I also like vampires and sparkly things so I find it cute. Yes I prefer my vampires bad ass and blood thirsty (which technically has been done to death) but in it's own right I enjoyed it.

As far as writing style...that has a lot to do with taste. I think Meyer had an good writing style. Not wonderful enough for me to sign up for her news letter, but I got through her books without any real complaints. I can't get through a single Steven King novel. He's to freaking dry for me. But that doesn't mean he isn't a truly awesome writer...just not my taste when I'm seeking entertainment. I like faster pace stories that still manage to move fluidly. Will I be nominating her for any prestigious awards? No...but she has a best selling franchise that's branched out everywhere...she really doesn't need anything else.

When people hate on something popular I can't help but think that it's born of jealousy. The "hell I can do better than that" sentiment just screams it. (and yes I've said that many times) You will be able to...to someone who likes your writing style and story ideas. Seven billion people on the planet (as of Monday apparently) so just about anyone that can write a functional sentence with a somewhat productive imagination can probably find a niche.

The trick is finding it. Kudos to Meyer and Paolini for doing just that.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Keep in mind that from what you have posted you are Twilights demographic age and sex. As opposed to myself who is most likely twice your age and LJ has a few years on me.

We are from the "Vampire as a bad ass" era and these pathetic wimpy little whiners make me ill. I think as much as I blame Anne Rice, angel from Buffy has a big influence on the sensitive Vampire. I give Buffy some slack though, because they also introduced pike who was a throw back to the bad ass Vampires.

One who is looking for bad ass vampires with an emotional side would be far better off checking out "Black Dagger Brotherhood". Silly names, great story line, that one actually grew all over me. (Plus I'd pit BDB's Zsadist against ALL of Team Edward plus half of Team Jacob combined.)

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

When people hate on something popular I can't help but think that it's born of jealousy.

You mean it can't possibly be based on the bad writing of Twilight, which apparently never improves; or the way in which Bella sets women back by decades?

Why don't these same people hate Harry Potter?

It scares me that Stephanie Meyers may get admitted to the same high society restaurants that J. K. Rowling dines at...

 

[Stella_Omega]

The thing that made Paolini's book so popular was Paolini's nationwide tour.

Say you're a primary school librarian, and the kids show up in your room once in a semester -- under duress-- and you know your principle is starting to look at your room as a classroom in potentia for that other fifty kids who are crammed into third grade or something.

And this adorable sixteen-year-old boy tells your school he wants to come and do a presentation about how he wrote this book, and how everyone can be a writer. And he shows up in the cutest Renaissance Faire costume, and talks about his awesome dragons that he got the idea from those LOTR movies, and gets the kids all enthusiastic about writing about dragons just like he did.

And the kids come into the library to ask for his book, so you order ten copies, which turn out to be seven more than you really needed, but damn it looked like kids were going to start reading again, for a moment.

Paolini spent months doing this. He charmed hundreds of librarians. That's the real secret.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

The thing that made Paolini's book so popular was Paolini's nationwide tour.

Say you're a primary school librarian, and the kids show up in your room once in a semester -- under duress-- and you know your principle is starting to look at your room as a classroom in potentia for that other fifty kids who are crammed into third grade or something.

And this adorable sixteen-year-old boy tells your school he wants to come and do a presentation about how he wrote this book, and how everyone can be a writer. And he shows up in the cutest Renaissance Faire costume, and talks about his awesome dragons that he got the idea from those LOTR movies, and gets the kids all enthusiastic about writing about dragons just like he did.

And the kids come into the library to ask for his book, so you order ten copies, which turn out to be seven more than you really needed, but damn it looked like kids were going to start reading again, for a moment.

Paolini spent months doing this. He charmed hundreds of librarians. That's the real secret.

Seeing as his story also went from a self-published book to a NYT bestseller in the children's category, are you really sure that ratio was 3 out of 10?

Plus, his parents spent a year promoting that book. The rest of what you said, thus, could have been summarized in two words: entrepreneurial spirit.

 

[Stella_Omega]

well sure, if lots of librarians buy ten copies, that's going to make a difference in the book's sales. LIbrarians mostly only buy one copy of anything.

When I say "only needed three copies," that doesn't mean that only three kids read the books. Books in libraries? Get borrowed, read, and returned. And then someone else borrows the same copy to read, and return. Three copies of something being active is pretty huge in library terms.

 

[PennLady]

I have admit I've read none of these. I've found I'm not a big YA fan a lot of the time, although I did read and enjoy all of the Potter novels.

I read something that put me off Twilight -- I forget where, but I read an article that said, really, how smart are these vampires? A hundred-plus years old and they're still in high school?

And that did it for me.

 

[AutumnRayven]

You mean it can't possibly be based on the bad writing of Twilight, which apparently never improves; or the way in which Bella sets women back by decades?

Why don't these same people hate Harry Potter?

It scares me that Stephanie Meyers may get admitted to the same high society restaurants that J. K. Rowling dines at...

::shrug:: Your opinion...and I've seen PLENTY of haters for Harry Potter too. Also bare in mind that I define a difference between Haters and Critics. Haters not only dislike the work, but the people that would deem to like it. Critics simply dislike the work.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I am not real big on HP either.

But-- one way that I judge a book is by the quality of the fanfiction it inspires. And HP has inspired some excellent, intelligent people to create some intelligent thought provoking work (along with the normal deluge of teenaged exploration that is so tedious to read but so good for the kids to be writing)

Twilight not so much.

Eragon IS fanfic. And it's fanfic of the tedious teenaged exploration sort.

 

[RjThoughts]

I have admit I've read none of these. I've found I'm not a big YA fan a lot of the time, although I did read and enjoy all of the Potter novels.

I read something that put me off Twilight -- I forget where, but I read an article that said, really, how smart are these vampires? A hundred-plus years old and they're still in high school?

And that did it for me.

I grew up with tales of Gothic vampires, Dracula and the Polish tales of my great-grandmother. Twilight was a wimpy, pseudo-teen angst claptrap written to sell books to tween girls. Nothing more. Popularity has NOTHING to do with it, at least, to me. I read the first chapter of Twilight and returned it to the friend who lent it to me. She asked my opinion and I told her the truth. This friend is a college English professor, and she agreed with me.

High literature it ain't. But I guess if it gets tweens and teens to read, it can't be that bad. For adults, it's TERRIBLE!!

 

[RjThoughts]

::shrug:: Your opinion...and I've seen PLENTY of haters for Harry Potter too. Also bare in mind that I define a difference between Haters and Critics. Haters not only dislike the work, but the people that would deem to like it. Critics simply dislike the work.

Count me as a critic. For adults, I can't even put it under "light entertainmen/distraction." It's below Harlequin Romances for me. For adults, the writing style and word usage is too simplistic, for me. Then again, I tend to read the works of Clive Cussler, James Rollins, Steve Berry, and Preston&Childs, action/adventure stories that use BIG words.

And yes, I have read BOTH HP and LOTR series!!

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Keep in mind that from what you have posted you are Twilights demographic age and sex. As opposed to myself who is most likely twice your age and LJ has a few years on me.

We are from the "Vampire as a bad ass" era and these pathetic wimpy little whiners make me ill. I think as much as I blame Anne Rice, angel from Buffy has a big influence on the sensitive Vampire. I give Buffy some slack though, because they also introduced pike who was a throw back to the bad ass Vampires.

I know what you mean. I tried to put emphasis on the fact that I USED to love vampires, now I can't stand reading about them. After twilight, a million novels have come out, all teenage dramas between vampires and humans. Basically, a million women trying to make a more badass twilight. In some, the vampires can control magic, in others the vampires can control the elements, and in others the 'good vamps' who don't kill their victims are in a war with the 'bad vamps' who do.

Maybe I would like these stories, but without exception, the lead character is always some bitch I can't identify with. I hate female characters, and I don't identify with them. The few that I don't hate are Liesel (from 'The Book Thief) Ayla (From the Earth's Children saga) and a couple of female characters that Stephan King has written.

Even so, Ayla can get pretty insufferable.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I grew up with tales of Gothic vampires, Dracula and the Polish tales of my great-grandmother. Twilight was a wimpy, pseudo-teen angst claptrap written to sell books to tween girls. Nothing more. Popularity has NOTHING to do with it, at least, to me. I read the first chapter of Twilight and returned it to the friend who lent it to me. She asked my opinion and I told her the truth. This friend is a college English professor, and she agreed with me.

High literature it ain't. But I guess if it gets tweens and teens to read, it can't be that bad. For adults, it's TERRIBLE!!

But it doesn't for the most part.
I know a man who created a Harry Potter-themed store in Los Angeles. it's pretty clever concept-- Diagon Alley recreated inside a large building, with a Great Hall that he rents out for parties etc. No shortage of set builders in L.A, so the place looks very satisfyingly arcane. The staff of young adult "hogwarts students" kinda squicks me, but each to his own.
He has a little bookstore in his store, and we were talking about his efforts to bring in other children's books. he said that he has never been successful in that. Lemony Snicket, LOTR, Twilight, you name it -- Harry Potter fans don't read, they read Harry Potter. One of his staff came up, and I started asking this young man about the books that he likes. He doesn't. Dude is twenty-something, and couldn't get through Lord Of The Rings. But he kind of liked the movies.

And he likes his Slytherin house tie.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Eragon IS fanfic. And it's fanfic of the tedious teenaged exploration sort.

The first book was fanfic. It has (in my humble opinion) evolved. The second book was very good, and the third book was better. It's hard to write fantasy without ripping off SOMEONE. I am very excited for the fourth because it has been four years since he has released a novel, and he has had time to grow and evolve. He's 28 now, and his writing style has matured.

You can call it shitty teenage fanfic all you want, I wont agree.

 

[RjThoughts]

But it doesn't for the most part.
I know a man who created a Harry Potter-themed store in Los Angeles. it's pretty clever concept-- Diagon Alley recreated inside a large building, with a Great Hall that he rents out for parties etc. No shortage of set builders in L.A, so the place looks very satisfyingly arcane. The staff of young adult "hogwarts students" kinda squicks me, but each to his own.
He has a little bookstore in his store, and we were talking about his efforts to bring in other children's books. he said that he has never been successful in that. Lemony Snicket, LOTR, Twilight, you name it -- Harry Potter fans don't read, they read Harry Potter. One of his staff came up, and I started asking this young man about the books that he likes. He doesn't. Dude is twenty-something, and couldn't get through Lord Of The Rings. But he kind of liked the movies.

And he likes his Slytherin house tie.

I guess my son's one of the oddities. HP was the first fiction he read OUTSIDE of the manditory school books, and it opened him up to other series. I've caught him reading my Indiana Jones paperbooks and he's asked me to get him fantasy anthologies.