infidelity

[Noor]

I was just reading an article this morning in the Nytimes and was struck by this:

"When had they crossed the line? Not when they finally kissed, my mom said. In a sense the sex was just the endgame. They crossed the line when the married person began confiding in the friend at work. When you entrust what you really think to someone outside the marriage, when your friend knows more about your marriage than your spouse knows about your friend, you've gone too far. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/28/magazine/28GLASS.html

I thought back at my relationships, my friends relationships, even some of my recent cybers and I tend to agree. There was also a bit in the article about how the other spouse is not responsible for the cheating, which I also agree.

I was wondering what you guys think?

 

[SummerMorning]

It is hard to draw the line...truly. I would shy away from calling fantasies and thoughts infidelity, but I do know that when my relationships started to cool I did start to fantasize.

One of the more interesting things I came across was that I became very critical of myself and all my actions. I could not but second guess the intentions behind everything I did. Was the rose I gave her just a means of clearing a guilty conscience (conscience of not loving her enough) or actually a sign of my love?

In retrospect I would say that the deed is the infidelity. If you do not act, there is no infidelity.

 

[Noor]

It is hard to draw the line...truly. I would shy away from calling fantasies and thoughts infidelity, but I do know that when my relationships started to cool I did start to fantasize.

One of the more interesting things I came across was that I became very critical of myself and all my actions. I could not but second guess the intentions behind everything I did. Was the rose I gave her just a means of clearing a guilty conscience (conscience of not loving her enough) or actually a sign of my love?

In retrospect I would say that the deed is the infidelity. If you do not act, there is no infidelity.

True fantasy and thought may not be infidelity, but what do you consider the deed? is it only sex? is outside sex always infidelty? does it even have to be sexual in nature at all?

There are people who believe lusting in your heart is as bad as consumating that lust, I believe there is even a biblical passage about that.

I don't hold with presents assuaging guilt, the only thing that clears guilt is an apology or somehow fixing what you did that made you feel guilty. Feeling guilty to me seems like the easy way out.

 

[Bobmi357]

It is difficult to determine when and where infidelity occurs. I tend to think that infidelity in more black and white terms rather than shades of grey.

To be sure, confiding in a co-worker or a cyberfriend about issues which are bothering you concerning your current relationship should be seen as one of the warning signs, but unfortunately people rarely take heed of warning signs.

It says a lot about the state of your relationship when you start divulging, what should be told to your mate, to others.

Unfortunately we live in a society where we are prepared to do nearly everything to live in that society, EXCEPT talk to one's partner about our needs and wishes. This isn't something we learn in school, few parents teach their kids about it. Hell, most children learn about sex from watching the media and to them, its merely just fun thing to do, rather than a serious, relationship building issue. My parents never gave me the "talk", I learned about sex from my peers and from self exploration, and pornos. The last of which can give a person a decidely lopsided view of the topic.

So where does infidelity start? I think it starts when you realize that that co-worker, or friend, has suddenly become as nearly as important to you as your mate. Thats where the blurring of the line begins in my opinion.

 

[Sarah_C]

What constitutes infidelity in any relationship is not definable by anyone except the people in the relationship.

"Infidelity" means going outside the boundaries of your relationship. For some people this would include discussing one's relationship problems with a friend at work or online, but for some people it wouldn't. In some relationships, extra-marital sex is not infidelitous. In some, smling too long at a person of the complimentary sex would be.

In a sexuality forum I am involved with we are often asked "If I (do a particular thing, like kiss someone else), would I be cheating on my partner?" The only answer to this question is "Ask your partner, because they are the only person who knows. If s/he says "no," then you would not be cheating. If they say "yes," you would be. And if you cannot even ask them because you are afraid of their reaction, then it would also be cheating,

 

[SummerMorning]

Like Sarah_C said, actually.

My personal opinion? The "deed" constitutes all physical action, certainly. However, what about speech acts? A declaration of love would also constitute infidelity. Asking someone (other than your SO) to have sex likewise, even if they'd turn you down.

But that's just traditional old me, your definition might be a different kettle of halibut all together!

 

[TigerClaw]

Denials, lies, hiding...... all show up.

I could write you a damn book on this subject. I agree with your statement here.

They crossed the line when the married person began confiding in the friend at work. When you entrust what you really think to someone outside the marriage, when your friend knows more about your marriage than your spouse knows about your friend, you've gone too far. "

No matter how far it has gone, it is at the point where trust is broken the real damage occurs. Now, is the partner willing to do what it takes to fix it? If not, they should get out immediately. No delays. No false promises.

 

[Parklife]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that confiding something in someone else besides your spouse is infidelity. It may be a sign of a lacking relationship but it doesn't necesarrily mean you're on the road to infidelity.

The quote does seem to be a bit out of context though. It sounds as if what she was confiding may be a bit more than some personal feelings or problems with the current spouse. But there's no way to know that.

I think that when one starts feeling guilt about their actions (be they sexual or not) then the case can be made that infidelity may be occuring. (or course, this doens't take into account those who feel no guilt for anything...) That guilt and/or the boundaries of the relationship being disregarded.. those things may point to infidelities. As someone said above, ask what your partner feels. If they think there's an issue, there's an issue regardless of what anyone else thinks.

 

[Missingmeds]

I don't want to open a can of worms, but this I think goes along with this question.

What if the spouse or S/O won't talk about problems in the marriage?

Then what does one do?

 

[TigerClaw]

......

 

[Wyatt]

My other half admitted we had problems. Under the influence of alcohol she told me she wasn't very interested in sex, never would be but that she wanted me to stay with her so I should find myself a sex partner...but she didn't want to know about it and she preferred it wasn't one of her friends!

I've never been brave enough to broach the subject with her sober.

A) should I?
B) What if one of her friends is who I want?

I could use that "I'm only human" line but I'll settle for "I'm always horny!

BTW we had an active sex life that has been curtailed by a medical condition of my partner .

 

[TigerClaw]

......

 

[Wyatt]

Mmm.

1) Kissing and cuddling more won't really cut it. I think the human race would have been as dead as the dinosaurs if we settled for kissing and cuddling. Might be acceptable for her...but not me. Selfish? Perhaps. I want real blow your brains out rocking and rolling SEX....

2) Probably have to agree on the friend thing. Hard not to get romantically attached to someone you already like. However, if you know someone who is keen and doesn't sleep around it is better than picking up someone who has been more times round the track than a Hackney greyhound. (Britspeak).

I'm quite happy normally...honest!

 

[AvatarsQueen]

So where does infidelity start? I think it starts when you realize that that co-worker, or friend, has suddenly become as nearly as important to you as your mate. Thats where the blurring of the line begins in my opinion.

Been there, done that. Hubby is now in 3rd year of military deployment, unaccompanied tour. last year he became very close to a peace corps teacher, spending lots of time together snorkeling, jogging, going to dinner (he paying for everything) while I was back in the midwest holding things together, trying to pay bills while he's spending $$$ right and left on this hag.

was he lonely? yeah, but he created his own unhappiness, seeing how he admitted to me he really didn't like to socialize with the americans who were there with him. so he hooks up with her.

i tried to explain to him that he was at least having an emotional affair, but that concept didn't sink in. yes, SHE did become as important to him as I was. she replaced me and quite honestly i don't know if i want to stay with him. i did notice that after he really got one on one with her, the other americans really wanted nothing to do with him. (i could see this in the email messages he sent me; definite change in the way he was treated by others about the same time he got hot'n heavy with her)

thanks for letting me vent my hurt...this is a hot button subject with me

 

[Missingmeds]

Been there, done that. Hubby is now in 3rd year of military deployment, unaccompanied tour. last year he became very close to a peace corps teacher, spending lots of time together snorkeling, jogging, going to dinner (he paying for everything) while I was back in the midwest holding things together, trying to pay bills while he's spending $$$ right and left on this hag.

was he lonely? yeah, but he created his own unhappiness, seeing how he admitted to me he really didn't like to socialize with the americans who were there with him. so he hooks up with her.

i tried to explain to him that he was at least having an emotional affair, but that concept didn't sink in. yes, SHE did become as important to him as I was. she replaced me and quite honestly i don't know if i want to stay with him. i did notice that after he really got one on one with her, the other americans really wanted nothing to do with him. (i could see this in the email messages he sent me; definite change in the way he was treated by others about the same time he got hot'n heavy with her)

thanks for letting me vent my hurt...this is a hot button subject with me

First let me ask something, where is this teacher from? Where is he and you could have had his check deposited and used a debit card to keep the bills under control.

The next thing is that most military people don't agree with having affairs when on deployment despite what popular opinion seems to be.

If you would like to talk more about this you can pm me anytime.

Wyatt, witout know what the medical condition is, there is only one thing that I can say to you. YOU need to have a talk with the wife's doctor and explain YOUR side of the situation. The doctor might not be aware that there is a problem.