Incarceration in the United States

[pecksniff]

There's rather too much of it, isn't there?

The United States has the highest prison and jail population (2,121,600 in adult facilities in 2016), and the highest incarceration rate in the world (655 per 100,000 population in 2016).[1] According to the World Prison Population List (11th edition) there were around 10.35 million people in penal institutions worldwide in 2015.[2] The US had 2,173,800 prisoners in adult facilities in 2015.[3] That means the US held 21.0% of the world's prisoners in 2015, even though the US represented only around 4.4 percent of the world's population in 2015.[4][5]

Comparing English-speaking developed countries;[1] the overall incarceration rate in the US is 639 per 100,000 population of all ages (as of 2018),[6] the incarceration rate of Canada is 104 per 100,000 (as of 2018),[7] England and Wales is 130 per 100,000 (as of 2021),[8] and Australia is 160 per 100,000 (as of 2020).[9] Comparing other developed countries, the rate of Spain is 122 per 100,000 (as of 2020),[10] France is 90 per 100,000 (as of 2020),[11] Germany is 69 per 100,000 (as of 2020),[12] Norway is 49 per 100,000 (as of 2020),[13] Netherlands is 63 per 100,000 (as of 2018),[14] and Japan is 38 per 100,000 (as of 2019).[15]

Comparing other countries with similar percentages of immigrants, Germany has a rate of 78 per 100,000 (as of 2017),[12] Italy is 96 per 100,000 (as of 2018),[16] and Saudi Arabia is 197 per 100,000 (as of 2017).[17] Comparing other countries with a zero tolerance policy for illegal drugs, the rate of Russia is 411 per 100,000 (as of 2018),[18] Kazakhstan is 194 per 100,000 (as of 2018),[19] Singapore is 201 per 100,000 (as of 2017),[20] and Sweden is 57 per 100,000 (as of 2016).[21]

This is not, I'm sure, because Americans are more prone to criminal behavior than anybody else.

 

[pecksniff]

Is this not far too high a price to pay for a low crime rate?

 

[butters]

too many people inside for too long a sentence tariff for minor crimes whilst others found guilty of murder serve less time; extensive fraud committed by the rich is viewed as 'just another day at the office'.

until there's a synchronised system between states for the same sentences for the same crimes, and an appetite to hold the wealthy accountable for their crimes, the prisons are always going to be filled with those who would serve their communities better by not being incarcerated, paying back to society in other ways.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

Is this not far too high a price to pay for a low crime rate?

Prisons are money makers in the US.

 

[Chernosoth]

Like any other insanely expensive and wasteful American practice, change will happen by necessity more than choice. The government will run out of money and start reducing incarceration, with the usual fuckups. Many will die of malnutrition and beatings and some by execution. Cops will use more lethal force instead of arrests. Many crimes will be ignored or decriminalized.

 

[pecksniff]

Prisons are money makers in the US.

They're not supposed to be, are they?

 

[JohnnySavage]

Prison should be reserved for those too violent to live in society. But... prison is big business in the US. We are among the world leaders in incarceration rate and execution rate. You're known by the company you keep.

 

[CuttingEdge]

It is simple: jails or prisons are the cheaper alternative.

It seems expensive on the surface, but it is the way money is so easy calculated in the prison system. The numbers are right there to calculate with costs per prisoner, per day, per year, etc.

But the alternative is not.

You cannot just release criminals without some sort of remediation mechanism. So the cost of therapists, social workers, housing, food, etc also has societal costs, which are often less obvious, harder to calculate, but still a part of the alternative to jails and prisons. The latter ends up being cheaper unfortunately.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Is this not far too high a price to pay for a low crime rate?

No.

One of the few successful social experiments in the United States has been the increase in the prison population.

From 1960 to 1970 the prison population declined from 212,953 to 196,429

The civil rights legislation was passed. Poverty declined because of a broadly based economic expansion, and War on Poverty Programs.

During this time the crime rate per 100,000 inhabitants increased from 1,887.2 to 3,984.5

From 1980 to 2016 the prison population increased from 315,974 to 1,380,427

Poverty increased because the economy became more competitive, and because of cuts in welfare.

During this time the crime rate per 100,000 declined from 5,950,0 to 2,489.3.

https://www.sentencingproject.org/c...DIrqwrKYFHAITA4lo_8kpJjSuweaMhFwaAvvBEALw_wcB

https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

The high cost of incarceration can be reduced and perhaps eliminated by the thorough exploitation of prison labor, the frequent use of capital and corporal punishment, and the end to educational and recreational opportunities. Until it is possible for a beautiful woman to walk through a slum neighborhood after dark and be perfectly safe I will advocate more, longer, and harsher prison sentences. Social reform and social welfare spending never reduced the crime rate. The only thing that works is punishment: lots and lots of punishment.

 

[The_Trouvere]

It is simple: jails or prisons are the cheaper alternative.

It seems expensive on the surface, but it is the way money is so easy calculated in the prison system. The numbers are right there to calculate with costs per prisoner, per day, per year, etc.

But the alternative is not.

You cannot just release criminals without some sort of remediation mechanism. So the cost of therapists, social workers, housing, food, etc also has societal costs, which are often less obvious, harder to calculate, but still a part of the alternative to jails and prisons. The latter ends up being cheaper unfortunately.

Rehabilitation is rarely effective. The police need more funding, more weapons, and more discretionary power.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Criminals are not decent guys who never had a decent chance. They are not victims of social and economic injustice. They are evil people who deserve to suffer.

 

[Champakian]

Uhhhhh......

Really?

Is this source including political prisoners?

On another note, it could also be demonstrating how lenient we are towards crime
if the punishment in and of itself is not a sufficient deterrent or it also could be
indicative of proactive attempts to combat crime by actually finding and
arresting perpetrators. It's more complex than the OP wants...

 

[BidudeinWi]

There's rather too much of it, isn't there?



This is not, I'm sure, because Americans are more prone to criminal behavior than anybody else.

It IS most likely that, until the Oblunder/BiDim "Administration" was installed, we were a Country of LAWS, unlike most other Countries!

 

[Fuzzy1975]

It IS most likely that, until the Oblunder/BiDim "Administration" was installed, we were a Country of LAWS, unlike most other Countries!

Really Potato Boi?


Check out this list....it really shows the data if you import it into a spread sheet too......if you are smart enough to know how to import it...*chuckles*


https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

 

[PaxNurgle]

Whenever I hear a statistic like "The U.S. has a higher incarceration rate than...such and such country/the world, etc." I never know how I am supposed to interpret it.

Often, people who quote statistics like that, imply that a good percentage of those who are incarcerated don't really deserve to be. That is, the U.S. justice system is inherently unjust, because they are locking people up for crimes that shouldn't really merit a jail sentence.

But another way of looking at this statistic is that the U.S. criminal justice system is better at apprehending, and prosecuting, people for crimes that they would have gotten away with in other countries- crimes that people deserve being locked up for. And as a result, the crime levels in the U.S. are lower than countries like, say, Mexico or Brazil, where the incarceration rate is lower but the rate of violent crime is much, much higher.

To look at this non-objectively, we need to break it down and study what percentage of people in prison are there for violent crimes, sex crimes, or crimes like grand theft, larceny, or destruction of property, versus people in prison for, say, possession of a small amount of drugs, or relatively minor/victimless crimes.

 

[pecksniff]

Criminals are not decent guys who never had a decent chance. They are not victims of social and economic injustice. They are evil people who deserve to suffer.

I've known some criminals. They are really not too different from anybody else.

 

[The_Trouvere]

I've known some criminals. They are really not too different from anybody else.

Most of the people I have known were fortunately very different from the criminals who mugged me, robbed me at gunpoint, and nearly murdered me. Criminals have earned my hatred, and they certainly do have it.