In my opinion

[Guest]

Watching the story and poetry feedback lately has been an interesting thing.
Unmasked Poet has appeared to bring us his stilted negative/very rarely positive critique. (about the time daughter got quiet?)
What has happened to positive feedback?
Not much going on here to encourage new poets/story writers. In fact even people who have written here for a while slightly cringe at the pointed stick of UP or daughter.
If I was a newbie and read the posts at the moment in this forum I would piss off elsewhere and go, fuck these people are really rough.
Oh yeah I am so going to get flamed. But be honest. Do me a favour and read what has been going on. Read the posts as if you were a new visitor to this site.
Whatever happened to tigerjen? At least she was positive and upbeat. Bringing us her interpretation as to which poems she likes.
Yeah that's right UP tried to dog her.
And all you other regulars at Lit that have PM ed me bitching and moaning about what is going on? Say what you think.

I remain, Flame till order is reached.

 

[Guest]

Panty Queen by littlemissblair caught my attention.
In the new poems listing. Not to be missed. Missing your panties? Perhaps the panty queen has them. Good use of rhyme, a great style and a wonderful use of imagery. I don't have a panty fetish but littlemissblair has me contemplating the saucy idea.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=30467


Just a taste of what you will find
"every pair
feeding me, a fetish fiend
with their daily wear. "

 

[Guest]

Non erotic poetry now.
Strike while the iron is hot they say. Why not? I am sure to be on fire in the near future.

Masculinity Redux by Slowhand60

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=30298

Fantastic poem I say loudly for all to hear.

The art of the man
is in his bearing and his demeanor
not through so much in the strength of his fist
but in the tenderness of his caress
and the tone of his voice
His commands remain subliminal to all
but to the object of his desire
the echo within her heart
as intentions and unstated promises
In this his masculinity is defined
not in his outer being
but in her inner reflections
and he sees himself in her
by her own actions towards him
and in the windows of her eyes
And he rejoices in this
for in his compassion for her
his passion finds root
And the solitude parts
and his future lies before him
defined as two and not one
This is the celebration of his being
the moment when self interest gives
way to mutual fulfillment
This is what makes the man.



This is what makes the man, his masculinity defined, not in the strength of his fists but in the tenderness of his caress. Well said, Slowhand60.
Complinents to you.

 

[Flame]

The posts above are mine.
PM me if you want.
I registered to ensure that my fans can PM me with feedback.

 

[Flame]

The night is young and this publicity is free.

A random poem plucked from the deep mysteries of Literotica. A treasure trove of delight.
I stumbled across this gem.
In the spirit of Christmas, enjoy.


"Twas the night before Litmas"

By Gaucho


http://literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=8974



Lovely rhyme, well written I say
In the true spirit of Litmas day

 

[P. B. Walker]

If I was a newbie and read the posts at the moment in this forum I would piss off elsewhere and go, fuck these people are really rough.

No flame here.

I am actually a newbie here, which I'm sure is obvious by the neat "virgin" tag I still have. As with most people that start reading an established BB, I did not go back months and months to read all the old posts. I have some free time at work and home, but I don't have *that* much time. So of course, I started with the new threats and followed those.

Your quote (above) is really right on. I actually did think the feedback was supposed to be harsh. This is both bad and good. Bad because, like you said, many new authors will "piss off elsewhere and go", or just not post their work. (Flip side of that coin: maybe that's good because if they leave after a little critism they were not meant to do this... I dunno). Anyhoo.

On the good side; It makes people like me work harder on what they write and actually spend the time editing and re-writing their work so it doesn't get totally hammered by the reviewers here. In addition, if you get a good review here, you know you have done a good job and people aren't just being nice. I am currently working on several new stories while at the same time re-writing/re-editing several old stories. I've also sent a few off to the volunteer editors. I do not have a writing background (mostly due to the fact that at most universities/colleges, the engineering curriculum does not include a lot of english/writing).

The point I trying to make is, I would have posted those old stories first thing if I had not taken the time to check out this BB and see that the feedback was on the harsh side. I've had very good reviews of those old stories in the past, but that was from female "friends" reading them purely to uhmm... yanno, and not as a writer critiquing a post. So basically, they were too busy to notice if the story was poorly worded, had run on sentences, used too much passive voice, or had mis-spellings. LOL.

Four posts to go until I lose my cherry... weee...

- PBW

 

[daughter]

Selective reading

Flame--

I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't? LOL Yes, I got quiet. Isn't that your preference? Did you miss the comments about my improved critique style and the 'thank you's' I have received.

I maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but who should try to be? Not nice enough? I'm working on it. I am honest though. I admit it is only my opinion. Did you miss all the threads I made promoting works? Another poster blasted me for making too many promotions. LOL

This is a public forum. An author does disservice to himself if he doesn't expect anyone to ever say anything unflattering about his work.

I have 21 poems posted. Some decent. Plenty need work. How about critiquing my work instead of my critiques?

I appreciate your feedback. Beauty of a public forum, you're free to say what you think--even about critics.

Peace,

daughter

p.s. I think writing is hard work. JMO

 

[English-Passion]

One thing a writer can't afford is a thin skin.

While I agree with Flame that unwarranted negative criticism does nobody any good (least of all the critic), I can't honestly say that I have seen much of that here.

Most people who critique hard, do so out of a genuine desire to help the writer get better. Of course, there is an occasional unfair jibe, but hey, fuck 'em!

Speaking personally, I would much rather have harsh, well-considered, useful feedback that I can learn from than no feedback at all.

I breathe in your love and I bathe in your hate. But in your apathy, I suffocate and die.

English-Passion

 

[tigerjen]

Re: The opinion of Flame

Watching the story and poetry feedback lately has been an interesting thing.
Unmasked Poet has appeared to bring us his stilted negative/very rarely positive critique. (about the time daughter got quiet?)
What has happened to positive feedback?
Not much going on here to encourage new poets/story writers. In fact even people who have written here for a while slightly cringe at the pointed stick of UP or daughter.
If I was a newbie and read the posts at the moment in this forum I would piss off elsewhere and go, fuck these people are really rough.
Oh yeah I am so going to get flamed. But be honest. Do me a favour and read what has been going on. Read the posts as if you were a new visitor to this site.
Whatever happened to tigerjen? At least she was positive and upbeat. Bringing us her interpretation as to which poems she likes.
Yeah that's right UP tried to dog her.
And all you other regulars at Lit that have PM ed me bitching and moaning about what is going on? Say what you think.

I remain, Flame till order is reached.

Flame....
Here I AM! Looking for me?
JUST FYI......all feedback, whether it be positive or negative,
is posted up here on the board.
I just happen to focus on the positive aspects....and
don't go on and on negatively.......while I do realize that
writers (including myself) do receive negative feedback from time to time,
the positive should outweigh the negative......who wants
to be receiving negative stuff all the time? Some individuals
get discouraged.......and some take it in stride and move
forward.

my 2 cents

Tigerjen

 

[Unmasked Poet]

Go Go Flame!

Welcome to the party Flame!

I appreciate your opinion yet I must disagree with some of your observations.
Why wish for the good old days they are still here. There is enough room for everyone’s opinion and style.

Speaking for myself I believe all my comments are positive overall. I do enjoy a quip or two within my opinion. I have not been here long and when I arrived I was a reader only, for quite a few weeks. I certainly could be wrong but poetry appears to have become more popular not less. I now have a pm overflowing with request and I will honor every one. It seems Daughter is being asked for her critiques and opinions and look at the line forming outside Killer Muffins thread.
I believe Laurel has kindly asked that those two add a formal thread to help those who are interested. We may not be sweet; goody goody but we are helping writers. Actually helping them to examine their writing and perhaps become better. And people are reading more.

Observe the number of views and responses on the poetry threads. Poetry is alive and growing on this board. The threads do lack the excessive back slapping they once possessed. Now they actually talk about poetry for the most part. There is room for many voices. I am delighted that you have added yours and I hope you continue offering your opinions on poetry. If my threads have in any way agitated and caused you to begin offering your opinion, which shall in turn get more people to read and vote then these are the good old days.

Dear Flame, why we could combine our opinions and do a point/counter point, you and I the Ebert & Roper of Literotica.
Or perhaps you could start the “sunshine thread.” When writers were sufficiently wounded from my stilted negative feedback, they could bath in your healing rays of sunshine and sweetness. And yes I happen to read the New York Times and believe me this much space is not devoted to poetry.

Should you continue offering your opinion know that I will be your biggest fan.

Affectionately
U.P.

 

[Guest]

LOL

Hilarious, UP!

2 thumbs up.


Fire
aka
Flame's unexpected alter ego

 

[Guest]

LOL......U. P., you still slay me!

And I'm still voting everyone else's poems to remain above mine.

But I have to continue to give you the thumbs up. (Siskal) And I rather like that idea. Perhaps you and Daughter could play off, (not with) one another.

I'd tune in to watch that.

I remain.......

 

[Unmasked Poet]

If only wishes could make it so

Too late, Thesandman vote as you may you are the new #1.

U.P.

 

[Guest]

OMG.........NO!

Be gentle with me....

It's only my second time..........


I remain........

 

[daughter]

happily in love

TS--

Don't start no mess and there won't be none. I am happily involved in a monogamous, damn hot romance of my life. LOL

Now, critiques? Maybe. I'm not funny like UP. Think if we hang out, he'll rub off on me?

Peace,

daughter

 

[Flame]

Re: Selective reading

Flame--

I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't? LOL Yes, I got quiet. Isn't that your preference? Did you miss the comments about my improved critique style and the 'thank you's' I have received.

I maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but who should try to be? Not nice enough? I'm working on it. I am honest though. I admit it is only my opinion. Did you miss all the threads I made promoting works? Another poster blasted me for making too many promotions. LOL

This is a public forum. An author does disservice to himself if he doesn't expect anyone to ever say anything unflattering about his work.

I have 21 poems posted. Some decent. Plenty need work. How about critiquing my work instead of my critiques?

I appreciate your feedback. Beauty of a public forum, you're free to say what you think--even about critics.

Peace,

daughter

p.s. I think writing is hard work. JMO

I have not damned you at all, madam. My intention is only to bring a more positive note to the forum. There will be newbies reading these posts, doubtful as to whether they will submit to being under somewhat strict scrutiny. Do we wish to bring a positive note to newbies? I know I do. We were once all new poets/writers.
Would you, as a newbie writing for the first time, without your experience and guidance from the poetry circles you have mentioned, have posted here with unmasked post scrolling through the threads? Waiting to pounce upon new submissions like a hungry lion? I would cringe, lying low in the hope that I would be overlooked when I was new. (Such a long time ago)
I note unmasked poets new thread, new Lions and applaud heartily.
Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
Writing is hard so is being a new writer. I want our new writers to be encouraged, occasionally guided and cajoled. Not treated with kid gloves or given unmeant praise but to encourage them to grow.

 

[Flame]

Re: Go Go Flame!

Welcome to the party Flame!

I appreciate your opinion yet I must disagree with some of your observations.
Why wish for the good old days they are still here. There is enough room for everyone’s opinion and style.


Dear Flame, why we could combine our opinions and do a point/counter point, you and I the Ebert & Roper of Literotica.
Or perhaps you could start the “sunshine thread.” When writers were sufficiently wounded from my stilted negative feedback, they could bath in your healing rays of sunshine and sweetness. And yes I happen to read the New York Times and believe me this much space is not devoted to poetry.

Should you continue offering your opinion know that I will be your biggest fan.

Affectionately
U.P.

Party? There was a party and I did not receive an invitation? It may have been overlooked by my social secretary as she waded through my PM's.
Starting a sunshine thread would be unnecessary. I have not come here to quibble with you.
You have your opinion and I have mine. May we all cohabit together in the house of Lit bringing our own individual strengths and weaknesses.
Poetry is a beautiful thing. Open your eyes and hearts I say to all, read and enjoy.

 

[Flame]

Up up and away. Sorry wicked humour there. A private joke.


Scrolling through the new poetry a jewel I find. A small perfect semi gem to share.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=30605


The Climax By Lancelot
I was carried away by the currents of their *cough* activity. Transported by the fireplace, wishing I was an ember in the fireplace, watching events unfold. The rhyme flowed well, not detracting from the imagery but complimenting this well written poem. I wonder though. Do the embers continue to be enflamed by their ardour or die out in wanting?
A snippet I liked


"Then my fingers felt her softness,
My hand I placed on her secret lock.
She clasps her hand around my cock,
There come forth a shining wetness
As she continued her tender caress."

Her secret lock? Hints at treasure/booty to be found.
Bravo.

 

[Flame]

Onto non erotic poetry I now go

Tears by mayeliza

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=28767

Do you ever wonder with all the atrocities going on in our world what God may think. (Whichever God/Diety/Superior Being you might believe in)
mayeliza gives us her interpretation and insight.
Aptly named Tears.
I found this poem an eye opener. Brilliant.

 

[daughter]

Would I hang out

Flame--

If I were a newbie, yes I would have stayed. If I want something I go for it and I am stubborn. I'm not easily intimidated. My second online forum, was brutal. The moderators relished in ridiculing newbies. I didn't like it, not because the critiques were harsh, but because it was clear that they got some sick enjoyment from humiliating people. I don't see that happening here.

I stayed at that forum for awhile, too. Why? Because, there were other critics who were knowledgeable and willing to help. There were some talented poets, whose work I enjoyed. I stayed long enough to get me to the next level. Yes, the climate affected my posting habits. I thought twice about posting nonsense. The moderators were not fond of drivel and journal entries.

With some experience, I went to another forum where the members were clearly far more seasoned than I. I was intimidated, but I hung out. They were friendly and willing to help. I asked questions like mad and posted only my best efforts. Those efforts were always modest in my opinion, but I wasn't submitting drafts that I had whipped up last night and hadn't bothered to proofread. I posted the best I was capable of at the time.

There are newbies that shine here who have little experience. Wicked Eve is a newbie. She didn't run, complain, refrain from posting. She asked for criticism. She checked out resources and the change in her poetry is evident. She always had talent. Now, she's cultivating her skill.

Flame, I respect your opinion. I am one voice. Diversity requires participation. We're behind screens as it is. No reason to be silent. I'd love to hear other voices.

Peace,

daughter

 

[KillerMuffin]

Apparently we are completely confusing constructive criticism with negative feedback.

Positive feedback: Feedback with no substance beyond an ego stroking. Tigerjen's stock in trade, actually. Yeah! Great work! Another winner! Whooohoooo! You are such a great writer!!!! Now if this person is actually a mediocre writer, you can tell because the numbers next to their stuff is in the 3's, how in the hell do you expect this person to figure out what's actually working for them? Positive feedback is only good if you can explain why you like. What worked. This also means you should pay some lip service to what didn't work as well.

Constructive Criticism: Feedback that tells the writer what was good and what wasn't good. What worked and what didn't work. The purpose of this isn't to cut the writer off at the knees or to pump up the ego. The purpose is to help the writer improve. Most people like and don't like this kind of feedback. They like it because it means someone took the time to read, think about, and respond to what they've written. It means they can improve in some way future writings. It also means that not everything is going to stroke the ego.

Negative feedback: Feedback that only exists to hurt the writer. There is never a purpose or reason for it.

I don't do negative feedback. Daughter doesn't do negative feedback. UP doesn't do negative feedback. Anyone who thinks we do either needs to give up writing for the public or needs their head examined. We are not like people who want to hurt writers with positive or negative feedback. We want to help writers and we want them to understand writing itself and how to make what they're writing better. Stagnation with positive feedback can be just as evil as cutting a writer off at the knees, in my opinion.

 

[daughter]

Well-said

KM--

Flame commented earlier about newbies and experience. I know about the damage of excessive ego stroking. I was queen bee at a board years back. After awhile, all I got was praise even when I begged for constructive feedback. Of course, the initial attention felt damn fine and I was inspired to keep cranking the work out. Then I hit a wall. I knew my work was starting to sound the same. It lacked range and I knew it, but I didn't know how to fix it. That's about the time I discovered the infamous site I mentioned earlier.

New playing field and a helluva awakening. Now, while I knew I wasn't the best thing going, I was unprepared for the reception I got. Not only were the critics merciless, I was reading works that were better written. I felt even worse about what I had been writing for the last year. I was also a small fish in a much bigger pond.

There are newbies who venture out and get slammed for the same stuff that was praised to the heavens here. I know because they've told me so. It isn't right to say nothing when our peer has toliet paper trailing behind him.

Overtime, I found other communities that had greater diversity in temperment and skillsets. While I hated the place I left, I did gain some knowledge and a new layer of skin. Despite the negativity, I learned something there. I look for a good mix of skillsets and feedback on boards today. I think we're seeing more of that here.

My contention is that we shouldn't be guilt tripped into being cookie cutter members here. So UP's humor isn't for everybody. Plenty of folks benefit from a cheerleading squad. We all like an ocassional slap on the back. TJ is good at it. Some critics even improve their styles given time. I hear that daughter chick is less strident and more palatable for the more sensitive.
And now we have Flame with a style that differs from the others.

A mentor told me once to pay attention to those I respect and admire. He said that is where I'd get my greatest learning. I only have to value a critic's opinion in order to learn. I don't have to like him. If you don't value what someone says, don't waste any emotional investment in his presence.

Peace,

daughter

 

[REDWAVE]

Too tough?

As somewhat of a "criiitic" myself, I have this to say. Sure, daughter & UP can be tough critics, but they're also fair, and try to help other writers improve. One suggestion I can make is to do like KM & myself, and only critique writers who ask for it. That way, the shrinking violets don't have to risk having their feelings hurt. But if you want to become a real professional writer, as opposed to an amateur dabbler, you've got to learn to take criticism (sometimes unfair and malicious criticism)and profit from it, not let it get ya down. My advice to newbies is: Pay very careful attention to the constructive criticism, and just blow off the malicious shit. (Yeah, I know, sometimes that's easier said than done.) UP does critique poems without the author asking for it-- but then again, if your poem made #1 on the toplist, that should bolster your ego enough where you can take a little criticism!

But I agree with the idea of trying to keep a (mostly) positive tone. Remember, critics-- it helps to sandwich criticism in between two positive comments (i.e., what you liked about the story or poem)-- makes it easier for the author to take the criticism.

 

[Guest]

Now where was I? Yes in my opinion. That was the name of this thread.
A light hearted approach, no pics please unless you see my agent first.
KM, daughter, REDWAVE and UP thanks for the comments. All are welcome.
No ego stroking here just free publicity so that the poetry keeps alive.

Perusing the poems section, after enjoying a large glass of my favourite red wine, I found a poem or three from debonaire that struck my fancy.

Submit to Mistress

http://literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=18027

Lesson One: Humility

http://literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=18312

Lesson Two: Loyalty

http://literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=18351


debonaire got me hot and bothered in no time. Arousing in my minds eye a perfect picture of what her poems are about. No more said, for fear of giving it all away.
Time is of the essence. Off to meander through my ramblings and make sense of some scribbles.
I am in good company in this forum. Poets post, writers write. Let the words flow.
See no flames here.

 

[Flame]

Above post is mine. Who said red wine and erotic poetry do not mix? I bid you farewell for now. Till next time.