In defense of LW stories

[rjordan]

Apparently a lot of other readers have finished his 208 stories, judging from all the red Hs and blue Ws. And I don't see a single one where he felt compelled to turn the voting off for some reason.

They are a full range of readers/writers and they want a full range of what can be available. Why can't you folks get this through your heads and leave everyone else the hell alone without telling them what to read/write--in any category?

It wasn't a critique of his stories. It was an admission on my part. I sampled a couple of stories. They didn't grab me so I didn't finish them. What does that have to do with other readers who have enjoyed his stories? Nothing. "Full range of readers/writers", right?

BTW, I have finished many of JBJ's stories. It's been very interesting to watch him develop his noire style. His writing is fearless and sometimes a lot of fun. He's a kingsized asshole, racist and mysogynist, but I wouldn't tell him that because he would enjoy it.

I haven't read any of your stories because dick play is women's work. (another tip of the hat to JBJ).

Anyway, not that it is any of your business, but you brought it up and I don't mind answering, though I wonder why it matters to you. I recently turned off voting on my stories because the voting is meaningless to me. Having a full range of writers, there may be others where the vote is meaningful to them. My votes generally were running 3.65 for one of my favorites to 4.52 for one of my fluffiest.

I left Comments enabled because they are sometimes helpful and sometimes funny.

rj

 

[jezzaz]

Question

Am I right in assuming that the Erotic Coupling section is more for stroke / hot sex stories, with little plot, and the Romance section is more for a story, rather than a scene?

I have something I want to post - part of my Ingrams series of stories,- which is more love story than not, and as such, doesn't fit in the LW category (I get enough shit from commenters in there about what is already there), so looking for the right place for it.

 

[rjordan]

It's "despite" because the large numbers of people looking for something to quickly get off to don't ever see the voting or comment form, they back-click when they see the number of pages at the bottom and no indication the sex is happening any time soon.

Seriously, how do you know this? Is there data on this that you can share? Do you have a way of monitoring what "large numbers of people" do on this site? You can be that specific? Able to describe their every mouse click?

OK, this is kind of ironic in a way. I'm questioning a fiction writer about a make believe paragraph.

rj

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Am I right in assuming that the Erotic Coupling section is more for stroke / hot sex stories, with little plot, and the Romance section is more for a story, rather than a scene?

I have something I want to post - part of my Ingrams series of stories,- which is more love story than not, and as such, doesn't fit in the LW category (I get enough shit from commenters in there about what is already there), so looking for the right place for it.

Try not to take the categories seriously. I don't think I've written a single story that fits neatly into one of the categories here. They bizarrely turn orthogonal subjects into either-ors.

Romance should be about love IMHO. Not about plot; love itself isn't very plot-driven. So I guess erotic couplings is more loveless sex? I dunno.

I'd like to see checkmarks, not categories. This story contains (check all that apply) love, sex, incest, gay, lesbian, noncon, tickling, fantasy, scifi, sex scenes that aren't physically possible but the author doesn't seem to know that, realistic portrayal of submission and dominance, unicorns (because horses are bestiality)...

 

[sr71plt]

It wasn't a critique of his stories. It was an admission on my part. I sampled a couple of stories. They didn't grab me so I didn't finish them. What does that have to do with other readers who have enjoyed his stories? Nothing. "Full range of readers/writers", right?

BTW, I have finished many of JBJ's stories. It's been very interesting to watch him develop his noire style. His writing is fearless and sometimes a lot of fun. He's a kingsized asshole, racist and mysogynist, but I wouldn't tell him that because he would enjoy it.

I haven't read any of your stories because dick play is women's work. (another tip of the hat to JBJ).

Anyway, not that it is any of your business, but you brought it up and I don't mind answering, though I wonder why it matters to you. I recently turned off voting on my stories because the voting is meaningless to me. Having a full range of writers, there may be others where the vote is meaningful to them. My votes generally were running 3.65 for one of my favorites to 4.52 for one of my fluffiest.

I left Comments enabled because they are sometimes helpful and sometimes funny.

rj

Your "I haven't finished any of your stories" sounded down right snotty to me--amusing coming from someone so sensitive to feedback that you've turned the voting off most of your few stories.

And you can stuff the GM slam. In addition to GM stories, I have over a hundred and fifty stories posted here in more than twenty straight categories, which is far more straight stories than most can say--including, pointedly, you. And I leave the voting on and take what comes.

I haven't read any of your stories either--because, after thirteen years, you don't have much of anything posted here to read.

 

[sr71plt]

Am I right in assuming that the Erotic Coupling section is more for stroke / hot sex stories, with little plot, and the Romance section is more for a story, rather than a scene?

I have something I want to post - part of my Ingrams series of stories,- which is more love story than not, and as such, doesn't fit in the LW category (I get enough shit from commenters in there about what is already there), so looking for the right place for it.

I think Erotic Coupling is more a catchall for stories that don't seem to fit anywhere else. And then, as a hodge-podge category, it doesn't get a large readership. As someone else has mentioned here, I find a lot of my straight stories don't really fit well into a single category. (I don't have to worry about the GM stories, as the Web site doesn't provide for categorizing them by theme.)

 

[TxRad]

Trying to determine anything within the confines of LW is most likely a fool's errand. The amount of blood in the water on any given day probably skews things dramatically.

A good example is DWornock ( I think I spelled that right ) who went through the LW list voting and commenting on thousands of stories alphabetically in a streak a couple of years back. Right behind him were a dozen people voting and commenting on everything he commented on.

That's just one of the more dramatic examples. I see the same thing happening all the time. One comment on something ( even if it's years old ) typically leads to more. Often, at least one of those follow-ups is obviously ( or openly stated to be ) nothing more than a counter to the previous comment.

The constant state of warfare within the category makes it all but impossible to gauge reader preferences, because they're drowned out by the barrage of votes and counter-votes, comments and counter-comments.

Seriously, how do you know this? Is there data on this that you can share? Do you have a way of monitoring what "large numbers of people" do on this site? You can be that specific? Able to describe their every mouse click?

OK, this is kind of ironic in a way. I'm questioning a fiction writer about a make believe paragraph.

rj

Maybe you need to read all the posts and not just nitpick what fits your argument. RR has more data on more stuff about stories votes, comments, and views than anyone I know of. He collects data on his own stories across three different names, so ya he has a way of monitoring things.

And if you really believe that his "Paragraph" is make believe then you're not nearly as smart as you make yourself out to be.

 

[rjordan]

I haven't read any of your stories either--because, after thirteen years, you don't have much of anything posted here to read.

Not many comments either. South of 500 in 13 years. That's probably an evening's work for you.

Anyway, this has obviously reached the internet version of entropy where there's nothing left to say but...Hitler.

Nice talking with you, sr71plt.

rj

 

[RejectReality]

As far as choosing between EC and Romance, I'd say that if it's a genuine love story, and it ends happily, then go with Romance. It does need to be a love story, though. Lust won't scratch the itch of the readership there.

Romance isn't one of the most read categories on the site, but it does reasonably well, especially when compared to the grab-bag that is EC. You never know what you're going to get there, so most of the readership seems to be cross-over from other categories, following authors they know they like. You really have to catch someone's attention with the title/description if they aren't already following you into the category from elsewhere.

Am I right in assuming that the Erotic Coupling section is more for stroke / hot sex stories, with little plot, and the Romance section is more for a story, rather than a scene?

I have something I want to post - part of my Ingrams series of stories,- which is more love story than not, and as such, doesn't fit in the LW category (I get enough shit from commenters in there about what is already there), so looking for the right place for it.

 

[rjordan]

Maybe you need to read all the posts and not just nitpick what fits your argument. RR has more data on more stuff about stories votes, comments, and views than anyone I know of. He collects data on his own stories across three different names, so ya he has a way of monitoring things.

And if you really believe that his "Paragraph" is make believe then you're not nearly as smart as you make yourself out to be.

Tex, listen to me. Just once. I'll finish one of your stories (a short one, ok?) if you do.

RR said, "...large numbers of people looking for something to quickly get off to...don't ever see the voting or comment form...they back-click when they see the number of pages at the bottom..."

I don't care how much story data he has, he cannot know:

• if a reader sees the voting
• if a reader sees the comment form
• if a reader back-clicks
• if a reader sees the number of pages at the bottom

That is what the paragraph says. The only way to "know" all that is to make it up. I may not be as smart or good looking or hung as you like to think, but I ain't stoopid.

Laurel, the Lit Goddess herself, cannot know any of those things about readers. She may be able to see in real time if they DO something. But she can't know about things they DON'T do like whether they see the comment form or not.

Anyway, like I've already mentioned, the thread is asymptotically approaching Zzzzzz so it's a good time to move on.

rj

 

[FantasyXY]

WTF...

After all my bitching and comparing several stories to a report about "what I did on my summer vacation", I was finally coming around to seeing this lack of drama thing another way.

Not so fast...

I just finished reading a story about what some dude did, and I shit you not, on his god damn summer vacation. And true to form, it read like a summer vacation report. (No intrigue, no drama, no suspense. Just sex, sex and more sex) Of course it had the dreaded hair color, measurements, and bra size within the first few paragraphs. However I do have to commend the author for not telling how big he wishes his dick was.

In this story between the paragraphs that tell... and then I, and then I, and then I; There is some incidental dialog awkwardly shoved in that doesn't help develop the story or further define the plot. It's just meaningless stuff people say.

Then out of nowhere, and for no apparent reason, the guy is fucking... with lots of great details about how... and the descriptions of how make it painfully obvious the author has very little actual experience doing what he is writing about.

Then the story goes right back to being a summer vacation report; I did this, I went there, I saw that. Add some more meaningless dialog, and all of the sudden he is fucking again. And then she did this, and I did that, and she liked it and came, then I came in her...

Stop! Please make it stop!

And.. WTF??? This story is rated well over 4.0!

Are descriptions of sexual acts really that intriguing to people? Is this really all there is to writing suspense, intrigue, drama (pick one) in an erotic story?

 

[sr71plt]

Oh, yeah, of course, reading one story makes sweeping generalizations true.

 

[FantasyXY]

Oh, yeah, of course, reading one story makes sweeping generalizations true.

Um, yeah. I've read a lot of stories here (conservatively, several hundred). This one just seemed to be screaming to be used as an example.

 

[sr71plt]

Um, OK. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[RejectReality]

This is a porn site. People, for the most part, behave rather predictably when they're seeking sexual stimulation. My titty-bar example. The way people behave in adult chatrooms. People skipping to the "good part" in porn flicks.

People in the wild, exciting beginning of relationships where they're having sex two or three times a day without fail still masturbate when the urge comes upon them, even when they know that only a couple of hours of delay will get them something much better than their hands/toys.

When something you're reading doesn't deliver what you want, what is your most likely response? Back-click and find something that won't bore you, or waste time going to the end of the story to complain that the story is boring first?

On the flip side, if you love a story and read it all the way through, when you reach the final page and the vote/comment form, how much more likely are you to utilize them?

You don't need to follow people around and record their every click to know something that comes from the primal lizard-brain is going to prevail when there's a whole world of examples demonstrating it.

Seriously, how do you know this? Is there data on this that you can share? Do you have a way of monitoring what "large numbers of people" do on this site? You can be that specific? Able to describe their every mouse click?

OK, this is kind of ironic in a way. I'm questioning a fiction writer about a make believe paragraph.

rj

 

[rjordan]

You don't need to follow people around and record their every click to know something that comes from the primal lizard-brain is going to prevail when there's a whole world of examples demonstrating it.

You don't need to to assume that it is reasonable behavior.

However, you DO need to do it if you are stating that "large numbers of people" are doing it on a specific website. Otherwise it just unsubstantiated conjecture.

The same is true about the claim that most people come here for sexual stimulation and don't care about the story. It's reasonable to assume that some people do that, but to claim most do that is unsubstantiated conjecture.

And that particular trope is repeated over and over until even those who say it don't know anymore where it came from or why it's true.

In any event, I normally enjoy your posts and no doubt will continue to in the future. Most of them anyway.

rj

 

[RejectReality]

Why would you come to Literotica for any other reason? What Google search without sexual terms is going to land you on Lit rather than a thousand other websites? It's hard to imagine any scenario where people aren't coming here looking for sexual stimulation. Some may evolve to enjoy something more, but that's the root and genesis of it.

And I don't say "don't care about the story." If that was the case, they'd be on Pornhub or Youporn.

I've said numerous times that they're looking for more than "Is there another way I can pay for this pizza?" That's exactly what I base my level of setup on in this pen name -- one step above. Deliver a little character, a little humor, maybe a little drama, and then really deliver on the sex as a payoff.

My scores are lower than in my other two pen names, but I have dramatically higher numbers of votes, favorites, and views in this name. I restricted this pen name to that formula for the purpose of testing this theory over a long period of time. ( a couple of years before I revealed it was me to more than a handful of people)

Beyond that, I've also done numerous daily tracks of the themed contests, read the feedback portal frequently every day, and have done a lot of additional research in the process of trying to determine how to best categorize my stories for maximum readership.

This is coming from a decade of studying Lit's readership trends, as well as being involved with the live nude chat industry since it's infancy in the 90s.

I'm not just pulling this out of my ass.

You don't need to to assume that it is reasonable behavior.

However, you DO need to do it if you are stating that "large numbers of people" are doing it on a specific website. Otherwise it just unsubstantiated conjecture.

The same is true about the claim that most people come here for sexual stimulation and don't care about the story. It's reasonable to assume that some people do that, but to claim most do that is unsubstantiated conjecture.

And that particular trope is repeated over and over until even those who say it don't know anymore where it came from or why it's true.

In any event, I normally enjoy your posts and no doubt will continue to in the future. Most of them anyway.

rj

 

[NaokoSmith]

There seems to be an assumption in here that either you have hot sex (stroke story) or you have drama (awww, romance ).

Aren't readers coming (ho ho) here because the two are combined in such a variety of ways. There is a strong wish for a good well-written story, in fact I've read one exceptionally popular Fantasy story where the readers started asking for more plot development and less sex! although they hurriedly added that the sex was really hot and if the author could supply the phone number for the woman-with-fur they would be grateful.

Sexuality is core to our identity and to our being sociable humans. Maybe people come here to read stories which offer unique opportunities to explore that.

(And to jerk off - which is also fun )