In defense of LW stories

[FantasyXY]

Okay, I'm not really going to defend the readers and numerous hate comments that accompany stories in the Loving Wives section, but I do have an interesting observation that is somewhat rooted in that section's stories.

Like most of us here on Lit I have read plenty of stories. I'm not really into Anal, BDSM, gay or lesbian stories, but I've read quite a number of submissions from the other categories. There is one thing I have noticed about most of the stories in nearly every category. By and large they all lack drama. Most of them read like a report of what someone did on their summer vacation.

While this is true in most of the stories in most of the categories, it doesn't seem quite as prevalent in the Loving Wives category. It seems that a cheating spouse somehow provides instant drama in a story, and the author doesn't really have to work very hard at writing to keep readers hooked. (I notice this in many TV shows as well. A cheating spouse, GF, BF, or even a crooked business partner always adds instant drama)

I know that I am guilty as charged when it comes to letting a cheating wife add instant drama to a story, and I have submitted these cheap ass stories in LW. Of course I got plenty of hateful comments, but lots of votes and reads as well. I knew I was taking a shortcut while I was writing these LW cheating stories. I just kept telling myself it was okay because I was actually working on my surprise ending skills, or trying to figure out how to write an unexpected response to an action or situation. I'm not sure I succeeded in either of those, but they made good excuses.

So a couple of questions for all you esteemed Lit authors...

Do you agree with my assessment that for the most part there is a lack of drama in most of the stories submitted on Lit?

How do you go about ensuring there is enough draw (or drama) in your stories to keep readers interested?

Maybe a bonus question... Do you agree with my assessment that a cheating spouse provides instant (cheap) drama in a story?

 

[sr71plt]

Like most of us here on Lit I have read plenty of stories. I'm not really into Anal, BDSM, gay or lesbian stories, but I've read quite a number of submissions from the other categories. There is one thing I have noticed about most of the stories in nearly every category. By and large they all lack drama. Most of them read like a report of what someone did on their summer vacation.

OK, I didn't read any farther than this, because this is an outrageous generalization.

 

[TxRad]

Okay, I'm not really going to defend the readers and numerous hate comments that accompany stories in the Loving Wives section, but I do have an interesting observation that is somewhat rooted in that section's stories.

Like most of us here on Lit I have read plenty of stories. I'm not really into Anal, BDSM, gay or lesbian stories, but I've read quite a number of submissions from the other categories. There is one thing I have noticed about most of the stories in nearly every category. By and large they all lack drama. Most of them read like a report of what someone did on their summer vacation.

While this is true in most of the stories in most of the categories, it doesn't seem quite as prevalent in the Loving Wives category. It seems that a cheating spouse somehow provides instant drama in a story, and the author doesn't really have to work very hard at writing to keep readers hooked. (I notice this in many TV shows as well. A cheating spouse, GF, BF, or even a crooked business partner always adds instant drama)

I know that I am guilty as charged when it comes to letting a cheating wife add instant drama to a story, and I have submitted these cheap ass stories in LW. Of course I got plenty of hateful comments, but lots of votes and reads as well. I knew I was taking a shortcut while I was writing these LW cheating stories. I just kept telling myself it was okay because I was actually working on my surprise ending skills, or trying to figure out how to write an unexpected response to an action or situation. I'm not sure I succeeded in either of those, but they made good excuses.

So a couple of questions for all you esteemed Lit authors...

Do you agree with my assessment that for the most part there is a lack of drama in most of the stories submitted on Lit?

How do you go about ensuring there is enough draw (or drama) in your stories to keep readers interested?

Maybe a bonus question... Do you agree with my assessment that a cheating spouse provides instant (cheap) drama in a story?

1: Lit is an erotic site. Most readers aren't looking for drama, they are looking to be sexually stimulated.

2: see answer 1.

Bonus: A cheating wife provides titillation to people into that. Drama is as drama does.

 

[rjordan]

1: Lit is an erotic site. Most readers aren't looking for drama, they are looking to be sexually stimulated.

I hear this a lot, but I haven't seen anyone actually prove it. It's an "outrageous generalization" to quote sr71plt. Further, I think there's evidence that it is incorrect.

I don't think "most" LW readers are just looking to be sexually stimulated. If that were true, the negative comments in LW would reflect that. They don't generally reflect that at all. The most vocal ones seem to be stimulated by the infidelity, and not in a good way. They become upset and want retribution for the wronged partner. I just don't see lots of complaints about the level of sex, but lots of dramatic comments about what they didn't like.

Also, when an LW story is well-crafted, there is a lot of positive feedback about the story and also a number of thoughtful negative comments. Not really many comments about the level of sex, but again, if the wronged party doesn't get revenge, there will be complaints.

It's very possible that readers come here for sexual stimulation, but they respond very well to a good story. They respond at least as well, probably better, to a good story as they do to one that is all sex.

Maybe the writers who have the most negative things to say about LW haven't done their research and are writing to a false premise built by "conventional wisdom" on authors' forums.

There are plenty of really good authors on LW, and several outstanding authors, who have learned the secret and they aren't writing strokers. There are also many very thoughtful readers and authors who comment regularly on LW stories.

rj

 

[Handley_Page]

There are a few stories that have a certain drama about them.
However, I get the impression that this is a site which, - how can I put it - features the more erotic than the dramatic.
Were the latter to be the case, it might better be titled Dramotica

 

[PennLady]

So a couple of questions for all you esteemed Lit authors...

Do you agree with my assessment that for the most part there is a lack of drama in most of the stories submitted on Lit?

No. For one thing, there are way too many stories on this site, in a variety of styles, for anyone to really say anything "for the most part" about them. The only thing, maybe, one could say is that for the most part the stories are written to sexually stimulate people.

I've read stories with plenty of drama and dramatic situations, not in the LW category.

How do you go about ensuring there is enough draw (or drama) in your stories to keep readers interested?

I don't "ensure" anything. I write what works for my story and hope that I develop the characters and plot enough to keep people interested.

Maybe a bonus question... Do you agree with my assessment that a cheating spouse provides instant (cheap) drama in a story?

To an extent, yeah. Much like an unexpected pregnancy does to a story. But that doesn't mean it's bad, or can't be used to good effect in a story.

 

[FantasyXY]

There are a few stories that have a certain drama about them.
However, I get the impression that this is a site which, - how can I put it - features the more erotic than the dramatic.
Were the latter to be the case, it might better be titled Dramotica

Dramotica... Good one Handley.

OK let me use some other words for drama. How about suspense, surprise and longing. Even erotica has some sort of drama. Otherwise every story ends up being like the 70's porno scene with the pizza delivery boy and the coed that doesn't have the money. Even after 30+ years my friends and I still have this running joke about someone with a simplistic job being like the writer for a porno; where an entire scene is simply written like this...

Guy - "Hi"
Girl - "Oh, hi"
Queue the fucking music - Bump dee dee Dumb dee dee Bump dee dee Dumb

I'm not calling out anyone in particular here, and I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, (in fact I'd be careful about protesting too loudly on this sort of thing) but I stand by my original observation. Cheating spouses, and as PennLady said, unexpected pregnancy makes for instant (tension, suspense, surprise, drama)... pick one.

There has to be more skill to writing stories than using these old "gimmies". Many of you AH regulars are accomplished writers here on Lit. I still want to know how you develop this sort of thing in your stories.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Fuck readers and critics. Fuck all of you. LIT is the Gong Show. The best LIT can ever be is a kinda ETCH A SKETCH for story ideas and techniques.

 

[TxRad]

I hear this a lot, but I haven't seen anyone actually prove it. It's an "outrageous generalization" to quote sr71plt. Further, I think there's evidence that it is incorrect.

With over a million people visiting this site daily, I don't think they are looking for NY Times best sellers.

I don't think "most" LW readers are just looking to be sexually stimulated. If that were true, the negative comments in LW would reflect that. They don't generally reflect that at all. The most vocal ones seem to be stimulated by the infidelity, and not in a good way. They become upset and want retribution for the wronged partner. I just don't see lots of complaints about the level of sex, but lots of dramatic comments about what they didn't like.

The ones that go there for the sexual part do reply. Just not with negative comments. As for the most vocal, the squeakiest wheels always get the attention.

Also, when an LW story is well-crafted, there is a lot of positive feedback about the story and also a number of thoughtful negative comments. Not really many comments about the level of sex, but again, if the wronged party doesn't get revenge, there will be complaints.

The best comments are the ones that correct the misconceptions of the revenge idiots complaints.

It's very possible that readers come here for sexual stimulation, but they respond very well to a good story. They respond at least as well, probably better, to a good story as they do to one that is all sex.

If they are not here for sexual stimulation then why is Non_erotic the least read section? A good story will always stand on its own anywhere.

Maybe the writers who have the most negative things to say about LW haven't done their research and are writing to a false premise built by "conventional wisdom" on authors' forums.

I haven't heard anyone badmouth LE. I've written several stories there and there is no such thing as "conventional wisdom" only wisdom that works for you and your story.

There are plenty of really good authors on LW, and several outstanding authors, who have learned the secret and they aren't writing strokers. There are also many very thoughtful readers and authors who comment regularly on LW stories.

And then there is the very vocal haters. There is no secret to writing a good scoring story in LW. Pander to the haters. It works.

rj

.....

 

[Messier82]

Fuck readers and critics.

Well, I'm with you on the critics.

There's a story about Sibelius which comes to mind when the topic of critics crops up: Sibelius had a student who had his first work performed live for the first time. It was panned by the critics. The student was distraught, Sibelius comforted him, "Don't worry about what the critics say, no one ever erected a statue in honour of critic."

This tale has been attributed to several other notables and many different wordings of the same sentiment exist.

 

[sr71plt]

OK let me use some other words for drama. How about suspense, surprise and longing.

OK, on the extension, I'll say that it's outrageous for you to assert that no other Literotica category here other than LW has plenty of stories that provide suspense, surprise, and longing.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Well, I'm with you on the critics.

There's a story about Sibelius which comes to mind when the topic of critics crops up: Sibelius had a student who had his first work performed live for the first time. It was panned by the critics. The student was distraught, Sibelius comforted him, "Don't worry about what the critics say, no one ever erected a statue in honour of critic."

This tale has been attributed to several other notables and many different wordings of the same sentiment exist.

There was a time, fifty years ago, I was so eager to please I'd do anything. One day I set up my easle in a public spot and went to work on a painting. Everyone had a suggestion to improve it. In the end the paint fell off the canvas. No one was happy, not even me. Its all you need know about an audience.

 

[DreamCloud]

I would write for Dramotica.

 

[SamScribble]

Back to the quiz ...

For the most part, is there a lack of drama in most of the stories submitted on Lit?

I have no idea. I have certainly read a few (generally bad) soap opera stories here. They usually have some rather obvious drama. And one comes across the occasional twist-in-the-tale story. But I don't think I've ever found myself thinking: Gosh, this story doesn't have much drama.

How do I go about ensuring there is enough drama in my stories to keep readers interested?

I never really think about it. My first priority is to write convincing characters. That seems to keep them reading. But then I suspect that most of my 'followers' read my stories for a quiet smile rather than for an attack of angst.

And do I agree that a cheating spouse provides instant (cheap) drama in a story? I have no idea. I tend to give the whole category a wide berth.
__________________

 

[sr71plt]

I think I write plot more than character. And I think there are elements of suspense, surprise, and longing in a good many of them. I think all three elements are in my most recent one, as a matter of fact, and it isn't a LW one.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

I totally agree with sr71plt about the generalization bit.

I also like the word 'outrageous.' And I tend to use that kind of word a lot myself and roll my eyes up to heaven when I say it.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

But to the main question posed...

How to keep the draw. How to make stuff not 'just' a litany of sex acts and events, or a report about said things.

For me at least, the LESS I write all over and across the 'story' elements probably the better because Jesus I can go on and on and bore myself silly if I read it all back. Knowing that a lot of people reading DO NOT WANT the 'story' means I know I have to focus on getting 'back to the REAL action' as soon as possible. Which in my case is a good thing for sure.

 

[FantasyXY]

I think I write plot more than character. And I think there are elements of suspense, surprise, and longing in a good many of them. I think all three elements are in my most recent one, as a matter of fact, and it isn't a LW one.

I agree with you on that process Pilot. I have always thought that characters react to the plot and reveal themselves, rather than developing characters that support some undetermined plot.

I also like to write something every little bit in my stories that wasn't what I think the readers are expecting. It may be something as simple as a reaction to a comment by a character, or someone getting rejected for sex when the plot suggests it's going to happen.

I said it before in this thread though... and I'll say it again. I do tend to get lazy at times and write a cheap little piece for the LW category that has the instant drama of a cheating spouse.

The basic formula for the typical story in Lit that I am referring to as having no drama gets picked apart all the time in this forum. That generally story goes something like this...

She was my (boss, neighbor, room mate's sister - pick one) and she was tall thin, blond, blue eyes, had a perfect ass, wore tight jeans that I loved, and had 36DD tits. (The author never says it, but implies that she is way out of his league) Then one day we were joking around and I fucked her and she couldn't get enough. The end.

Of course there is a lot more verbiage wrapped around the basic story, but push comes to shove, that's about all that's there. We all know there are a ton of these things out there. What surprises me is how much these things are being defended as erotic.

 

[sr71plt]

I had to laugh in relationship to the opening gambit of measurements to find these as the opening lines in Janet Evanovich's Wicked Business:

"My name is Lizzy Tucker, and I used to think I was normal. My hair is blond with some chemical assistance. My eyes are brown from my Grandpa Harry. I'm 5'5" tall, and my breasts measure more than my waist so I'm a happy camper."


My point, though, Fantasy, is that there is a ton of other stories on Lit. outside of the LW category that don't match your "they all are" assertion.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I hadda figure out what drama is, then I got engrossed in melodrama and fell over a wonderful definition of it.

The little I know about drama I learned from Charles Willeford.

What Willeford did was write a story about WHATEVER...say...making a movie, and add dollops of drama to it. The drama dollops make the story resolution possible.

 

[Sammael Bard]

Like most of us here on Lit I have read plenty of stories. I'm not really into Anal, BDSM, gay or lesbian stories, but I've read quite a number of submissions from the other categories. There is one thing I have noticed about most of the stories in nearly every category. By and large they all lack drama. Most of them read like a report of what someone did on their summer vacation.

While this is true in most of the stories in most of the categories, it doesn't seem quite as prevalent in the Loving Wives category. It seems that a cheating spouse somehow provides instant drama in a story, and the author doesn't really have to work very hard at writing to keep readers hooked. (I notice this in many TV shows as well. A cheating spouse, GF, BF, or even a crooked business partner always adds instant drama)

I know that I am guilty as charged when it comes to letting a cheating wife add instant drama to a story, and I have submitted these cheap ass stories in LW. Of course I got plenty of hateful comments, but lots of votes and reads as well. I knew I was taking a shortcut while I was writing these LW cheating stories. I just kept telling myself it was okay because I was actually working on my surprise ending skills, or trying to figure out how to write an unexpected response to an action or situation. I'm not sure I succeeded in either of those, but they made good excuses.

So a couple of questions for all you esteemed Lit authors...

Do you agree with my assessment that for the most part there is a lack of drama in most of the stories submitted on Lit?

How do you go about ensuring there is enough draw (or drama) in your stories to keep readers interested?

Maybe a bonus question... Do you agree with my assessment that a cheating spouse provides instant (cheap) drama in a story?

1. A crass generalisation makes people look like a fool.

2. Just because you have a "thing" for LW stories doesn't negate the fact that there are hundreds of thousand of other readers who love categories other than LW. The world is a small place, but it doesn't revolve around you.

3. No, I don't agree that LW contains the best stories in Lit. It's going to be point no. 2 phrased fancifully, but you should stop equating your tastes as final and binding.

4. There are hundreds of ways to bring drama into a story apart from cheating wives. 'Nuff said.

5. I don't agree with you or your points. See point No. 1, 2, 3 and 4.

 

[marriedpervs]

1: Lit is an erotic site. Most readers aren't looking for drama, they are looking to be sexually stimulated.

2: see answer 1.

Bonus: A cheating wife provides titillation to people into that. Drama is as drama does.

TxRad - Halle-fucking-lujjah!!!!!!!! I agree 100% with you and have been slagged on my stories by narrow minded Loving Wife story haters every time I submit a story.
As you hve said, and as I always say - if you don't like it, don't read it!!!!!!!

 

[Learin]

I've liked reading a few LW stories -- cheating, sharing, revenge etc. -- but I still wouldn't say it's the "best" category.

 

[DreamCloud]

Do you agree with my assessment that for the most part there is a lack of drama in most of the stories submitted on Lit?

No - 'Most' encompasses to many stories. 'Some' would be a better word.

How do you go about ensuring there is enough draw (or drama) in your stories to keep readers interested?

By wrapping the sex inside of a good story. The story is everything and sex makes great filler. The drama is in the character's head. It is not to difficult to let it out.

Maybe a bonus question... Do you agree with my assessment that a cheating spouse provides instant (cheap) drama in a story?

No - you need more than sex with another to create drama. There must be a reason for the sex. Something stronger than 'I'm horny.' Everyone's fantasies are different - You can write a sex scene and change just a couple of words and drama may unfold for a select few. It's not real drama, just perceived so by a select audience.

Example:
My hand moved to the moistness between her thighs.
My hand moved to the moistness between my sister's thighs.

 

[rjordan]

By wrapping the sex inside of a good story. The story is everything and sex makes great filler. The drama is in the character's head. It is not to difficult to let it out.

"The drama is in the character's head" and I think so is the eroticism.

I can't believe "most" readers come here for Tab A in Slot B sex and don't care about the story.

Even the authors who spout this lazy assessment don't believe it. If they did, why would they write such elaborate stories with developed characters and plot twists and feel good about their high voting scores? Are they feeling so good because they are able to write sex scenes for readers who just want to jerk off?

That doesn't even make any sense. Anyone with any intelligence would get bored with writing pure jerkoff material WAY before they had the opportunity to reach 30,000+ forum posts.

What makes sense is what DreamCloud said. "The story is everything." On this site, it is usually an erotic story--with some sex.

rj