"Imagining Saddam's Trial"

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This seemed interesting enough to post. It's just fyi, I have no comments. - Perdita
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The deposed dictator might call Donald Rumsfeld and a host of American leaders -- as defense witnesses.

Imagining Saddam's Trial - Barry Lando, Salon.com

Dec. 16, 2003 | It's a good bet that, despite their apparent elation, many U.S. leaders wanted Saddam found dead, not captured alive. Some may be upset that the disheveled fallen dictator wasn't riddled by a hail of bullets, blown up by a grenade, or self-dispatched by cyanide capsule when all seemed lost.

Instead, prominent Americans could find themselves playing a role in what may be a very long, drawn-out and embarrassing trial. Imagine, for instance, seeing Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, former Presidents George Bush and Bill Clinton, and a parade of CIA directors and secretaries of state called as witnesses -- for the defense. Not to mention a clutch of headmen from other Western and Middle Eastern countries. This may be exactly what Saddam now craves: the chance to publicly implicate other leaders and countries in his own brutal past. It won't be difficult.

Some of the tawdry background about Saddam's ties to world leaders has trickled out in the press over the past year, but tied together during a dramatic trial, the collateral damage could be devastating. Saddam's attorneys could present an interesting dilemma to Washington, demanding access to U.S. government documents detailing its leaders' dealings with Iraq, documents that would almost certainly implicate other nations as well. The New York Times' conservative columnist William Safire speculated Monday that Saddam "is looking forward to the mother of all genocide trials, rivaling Nuremberg's and topping those of [Nazi Adolf] Eichmann and [Yugoslavia's Slobodan] Milosevic. There, in the global spotlight, he can pose as the great Arab hero saving Islam from the Bushes and the Jews."

Of course Saddam is no hero, but he may have evidence showing that when it comes to Iraq, many American leaders haven't been heroes, either.

Saddam and his attorneys might begin with footage shot back on Dec. 20, 1983, by an official Iraqi television crew when Donald Rumsfeld arrived in Baghdad as special envoy from President Ronald Reagan. Saddam was wearing a pistol on his hip and already had established himself as a brutal dictator -- as Newsweek put it, "a murderous thug who supported terrorists and was trying to build a nuclear weapon." According to the official note taker at the meeting, Rumsfeld "conveyed the President's greetings and expressed his pleasure at being in Baghdad" to the murderous tyrant.

At the time, of course, America's chief concern was Iran and its Ayatollah Khomeini, with whom Iraq had gone to war. And so, over the next five years, until the conflict finally ended, the United States supplied Saddam with economic aid and such nifty items as a computerized database for his interior ministry, satellite military intelligence, tanks and cluster bombs, deadly bacteriological samples, and the very helicopters that were used by Saddam to spew poison gas over his own Kurd citizens. And when those atrocities finally became known, the Reagan administration also lobbied to prevent any strong congressional condemnation of the Iraqi dictator.

Fast forward to 1990 and the invasion of Kuwait, a territory that, according to some interpretations, had once been part of Iraq. In that year, Assistant Secretary of State John Kelley called Saddam a "force of moderation" in the Middle East. Saddam, in fact, moved into Kuwait only after consulting with the ranking U.S. diplomat in the region, April Glaspie. So why shouldn't the fallen dictator's attorneys now summon Glaspie and her State Department masters to explain why she assured Saddam back then that the way he handled his border dispute with Kuwait was of "no concern" to the U.S.?

Following Saddam's defeat in 1991 came the brutal repression of the Shiites. Tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of Shiites were massacred by Saddam after they rose up against Baghdad with U.S. encouragement. Saddam will probably argue he had no alternative to keep his splintered country intact. And he can point out that the same fact occurred to the Americans, who encouraged the Shiite rebellion and then turned their backs after they began worrying what might happen to Iraq if Saddam were to fall. During the trial, Saddam could ridicule the shock recently expressed by American leaders as grisly evidence of his mass executions was uncovered. It's hard to believe that U.S. government files would not contain desperate pleas from the Shiites for help as their followers were herded to their graves.

A similar fate, for similar reasons, befell the Kurds, who received U.S. encouragement to seek independence under presidents from Richard Nixon to Bill Clinton, only to be abandoned. The Kurds never seemed to learn. The U.S. had left them to Saddam's bloody reprisals in 1975, prompting Henry Kissinger's famous explanation that "covert operations is not missionary work."

As for Saddam's quest for a nuclear weapon, the former dictator will point out that, if weapons of mass destruction in the Middle East are a concern, they exist in Israel and Pakistan as well. Maybe here the French could be brought forward to testify how they helped both Iraq and Israel with nuclear facilities. A host of other suppliers in the WMD field, from Germany, Italy, the U.K and the U.S., would be subpoenaed. And his lawyers might want to investigate the old charges that Vice President Dick Cheney's firm, Halliburton, violated sanctions against Iraq and provided it with oil-industry equipment. (Cheney, it will be recalled, lobbied to end U.S. sanctions against Iraq while he headed Halliburton, arguing they hurt companies like his more than dictators like Saddam.)

None of this makes Saddam innocent of his barbaric crimes. But it certainly muddies the moral waters and gives the former dictator and his supporters much more than their day in court. Which is why you know a lot of people in Washington wish Saddam had used that loaded pistol he kept in the "spider hole" where he was finally captured. But true believers in Iraqi democracy have to be glad he didn't.
 
Dear Perdita,
Very cogent article. Thank you. I'm just glad that asshole will never walk the streets again.
MG
 
hiya

MathGirl said:
Dear Perdita,
Very cogent article. Thank you. I'm just glad that asshole will never walk the streets again.
MG

he never walked them in the first place mg hun, they were all stunt doubles, saddam was too shit scared somebody would shoot him if he showed his real face.

hiya perdy love how's you tonight??:D :rose:
 
They'll cut him a deal. He'll be playing golf and exchanging blondes with O.J. before the year is out, in exchange for testifying that Hillary made him do it.

But who killed Jon-Benet Ramsey?
 
Good lord, ella, you gave me an awful thought - L.A. would probably be the perfect place to hold this trial.

Perdita
 
Which trial are we talking about? Saddam or Scott Petersen? I get them confused.

Does anyone else think the Reagans may have had something to do with Lacey Petersen's murder?
 
ella, I could suspect Nancy of anything. I saw her as the American Lady Macbeth (but without real class).

Perdita
 
Saddam p.s.

Roger Hardy, BBC Middle East Analyst

In the Arab world, the capture of the former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein has been greeted with emotions ranging from jubilation to dejection.

While some Arabs see the removal of a threat, others see the downfall of a hero.

Ask Kuwaitis, and they will tell you Saddam Hussein was a monster who is now safely behind bars. Ask Palestinians, and they will tell you he was a brave leader who defied the enemies of the Arabs.

But whether they love him or loathe him, Arabs are shocked by the images of Saddam in captivity.

The man who for a quarter of a century projected himself as an all-powerful Arab leader has been dragged, bearded and dishevelled, from a hole in the ground.

How are the mighty fallen.
Even those who bitterly opposed Saddam feel the indignity of his humiliation at American hands.

There is disbelief over the fact that he gave himself up without a fight.

Some believe the Americans must have somehow drugged him; others that, for all his bravado over the years, he turned out to be a coward.

An alternative view is that the Americans have engineered an elaborate hoax and the man in captivity is not Saddam Hussein at all.

Death of Arabism?
Some Arab commentators are arguing that the fall of Saddam Hussein signals the death of the ideology he espoused.

A Saudi columnist calls him a false hero.

The ousted Iraqi leader belonged to a generation of Arab rulers who came to power on the back of military coups, creating authoritarian republics committed to the ideal of pan-Arab unity.

Saddam's Arabism was more rhetoric than substance
He sought to burnish his Arabist credentials by championing the Palestinian cause.

Many Palestinians were thrilled when he launched Scud missiles against Israel during the Gulf war of 1990.

But in the end he damaged the Palestinian cause rather than helping it.

His Arabism was more rhetoric than substance.

Anti-Americanism
Dominating other emotions, as the Arabs digest Saddam's stunning demise, is a fierce anti-Americanism.

Whatever they think of Saddam Hussein, many begrudge George W Bush his moment of triumph over an Arab adversary.

At a moment of wounded Arab pride, many are consoling themselves with the thought that the attacks against Iraq's American occupiers are likely to go on

Looking ahead, Arab commentators are asking whether the Americans will stage a show trial in Baghdad.

And at a moment of wounded Arab pride, many are consoling themselves with the thought that, with or without Saddam, the attacks against Iraq's American occupiers are likely to go on.

BBC
 
totally off topic (sorry)

perdita, I have cleaned out some room in my Inbox. Hope you can resend the message I missed. Sorry to be such a cluttergbug.
 
perdita said:
This seemed interesting enough to post. It's just fyi, I have no comments. - Perdita

When I heard the description of the hole they dug him out of -- 6-8 feet deep and wide enough to lay down in -- I thought that it was too bad they didn't fill that grave as soon as they found it. :(

Saddam's trial is going to be the biggest Circus the world has ever seen and people are going to riot in the streets no matter what the verdict is. Filling in the grave he was hiding in would have been so much simpler. <sigh>
 
they should have a special international trial committee to judge saddam and after he is convicted and sentenced to death people should see it on tv worlwide the burly executioner with the big black mask over his head as he puts the noose around saddams neck as the drummers in the background beat a steady beat to what is going on as the executioner then gives the word and saddam falls through the trapdoor flailing wildly like a fish on a hook. or we could make it short and sweet like russia did to a serial killer and just put one bullet in back of his head. maybe we can give him a choice of the two? at any rate after saddam breathes his last we concentrate fully on bringing Bin laden to justice and warn other terrorist who threaten worlwide security that they risk the same fate as saddam if they don't be careful:mad:


MR. Gibson' sexy tales!
 
I believe I well understand the passionate feelings Saddam engenders among all sorts of persons, but I am dismayed at some of the posted comments here and in other threads, e.g.,

burying him with pork is such an affront to Muslim beliefs, even if it is as evil a man such as Saddam;

all the talk of how to torture him;

and now suggesting his execution be televised live.

It is all such anti-civilized thinking, so anti-life and humanity. I am not protesting justice for this tyrant, only dismay at "our" inhumane reactions, even if for an inhumane individual.

Perdita :(
 
I am sorry if I had sounded too offensive here perdita but don't you think saddams enemies would think of even worse ways for him to die then what I just said?
 
Thanks Mr. G. for the apology, but you need not give me one. Yes, I'm sure the various muslim communities, Iranians, Kurds, et al, have quite barbarous punishments in mind, but I would not rebuke them if that is their way of thinking in their culture. It is the civilized, freedom and life-protecting Americans that disturb me when I hear barbarity being proposed.

regards, Perdita
 
I understand fully well with what you are saying perdita you said it perfectly. I am just glad this trial and judgement of saddam is out of my hands. I have enough worries in everyday life my friend. :)
 
I still think they should turn him over to Kuwait and let them try him for the killing and robbing involved in the Iraqi invasion of that country. He wouldn't be able to defend himself much there, and they would just convict him, then behead him or hang him, or whatever it is they do. No Americans at all need be involved and it would be an Arab nation doing the convicting and punishing, not the United States. If they want to bury him with pork or feed his body to the hogs, some would criticize them but nobody would shed a tear for him.




http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=207952MySmut
 
I definitely think that the idea of handing him over to the Kuwait government has merit. It's an arab internal matter. Let them deal with it in an arab way. Yeah, we (the west) found him, but it was them that he sinned against, not us.
 
yes, I agree with boxlicker and raphy, this is a muslim matter let them handle it....their way!!!
 
Umm...It could become a teeeeeesny bit embarrassing for the U.S.

When the Dream Team puts former CIA Director George Bush on the stand, for example...Or when the defendant wants to call other witnesses for the defense who happen to be from the U.S. Government, back in the day, when we wanted him to kick Iran's ass and we helped arm him and support him.

I'm gonna guess that the reason he's already been taken out of Iraq is so we can think very carefully about how much we really want him to talk in a public trial.
 
The illustration that accompanies the Salon.com article p. posted at the top of the thread:
 
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