i'm wondering about this

[Guest]

the madeleine case

now they're saying the mom was involved.

hmmn.

 

[Guest]

the madeleine case

now they're saying the mom was involved.

hmmn.

Yeah, apparently they found the girls blood in a van that the mother rented something like 25 days after her disappearance.

 

[rgraham666]

All I know is what I've read in the newspapers and on the net.

That's not evidence so I have nothing to say.

 

[scheherazade_79]

Wasn't there something a while back about blood they found in the apartment, and how it indicated she was dead? It'd be interesting to know if the blood in the car was from a dead person.

I dunnow...

It would be horrible if it turned out to be her, and equally horrible if she had to go through this when it wasn't her.

 

[neonlyte]

Wasn't there something a while back about blood they found in the apartment, and how it indicated she was dead? It'd be interesting to know if the blood in the car was from a dead person.

I dunnow...

It would be horrible if it turned out to be her, and equally horrible if she had to go through this when it wasn't her.

The news reports locally say the blood in the car was Madeleine's. The car ws rented 25 days after the girl disappeared. News tonight says traces of blood were also found on one garment of the mothers. The father is still being questioned some seven hours after the mother left the police station this afternoon.

 

[Guest]

this really makes me sad


whatever happened - - - she's 4 years old. shes just a little girl.

 

[cloudy]

this really makes me sad


whatever happened - - - she's 4 years old. shes just a little girl.

Indeed.

I have three boys in my house at the moment, only one of them mine. They are all three just as precious as they can be, and I can't imagine something happening to any of them, particularly my own (of course).

 

[jomar]

this really makes me sad


whatever happened - - - she's 4 years old. shes just a little girl.

Yes. And her pictures are precious. One hopes her parents aren't involved, but...

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Like in so many cases, don't make a judgement til the fat lady sings.

From what I know (from the net and TV), the parents were incredibly negligent in going out and leaving three children under three years old on their own in an appartment.

If these were trailer-trash parents, the press would be down on them like a ton of bricks for being feckless, but they are doctors, so they can't be at fault.

Cloudy, from the bit I know, the McCanns' parenting skills are way lower than yours.

 

[Guest]

The parents say they left Madeleine and her two-year-old twin siblings alone in the apartment on the night she vanished while they ate a meal with friends at a restaurant in the resort complex where they were staying.

Since when do you leave 2-year-olds and 4-year-olds alone while you go out and eat at a restaurant with friends? There is certainly a lot of bad judgement and neglect here. This case is very bizarre. . .sad, incredibly sad.

 

[only_more_so]

the madeleine case

now they're saying the mom was involved.

hmmn.

Is this the next Jon-Benet Ramsey? Except without the child exploitation angle?

 

[3113]

From what I know (from the net and TV), the parents were incredibly negligent in going out and leaving three children under three years old on their own in an appartment.

Yes, this is what I can't quite get my head around. The little girl was something like three years old, her twin sisters are two...and the parents just *LEFT* them alone in the room to go out to dinner?!?

I haven't read anything on this, but maybe someone could fill me in on the details: They couldn't ask the resort to send up a sitter for a few hours? The kids were locked in a playpen and not in any danger of sticking their fingers in light sockets or climbing on something and falling and breaking their heads? The room was locked so that no one could enter and snatch them?

Three unsupervised children under the age of four? What precautions did the parents take, if any?

 

[Nirvanadragones]

Yes, this is what I can't quite get my head around. The little girl was something like three years old, her twin sisters are two...and the parents just *LEFT* them alone in the room to go out to dinner?!?

I haven't read anything on this, but maybe someone could fill me in on the details: They couldn't ask the resort to send up a sitter for a few hours? The kids were locked in a playpen and not in any danger of sticking their fingers in light sockets or climbing on something and falling and breaking their heads? The room was locked so that no one could enter and snatch them?

Three unsupervised children under the age of four? What precautions did the parents take, if any?

That is exactly what I have not been able to understand.

I cannot imagine how any parent could do this on a regular basis. So let's say this was the first time they had left their three children alone like this. What is the chance, that during this one time, something like this would happen?

I don't get it

 

[neonlyte]

Yes, this is what I can't quite get my head around. The little girl was something like three years old, her twin sisters are two...and the parents just *LEFT* them alone in the room to go out to dinner?!?

I haven't read anything on this, but maybe someone could fill me in on the details: They couldn't ask the resort to send up a sitter for a few hours? The kids were locked in a playpen and not in any danger of sticking their fingers in light sockets or climbing on something and falling and breaking their heads? The room was locked so that no one could enter and snatch them?

Three unsupervised children under the age of four? What precautions did the parents take, if any?

One of the most disturbing elements to this case is the family were part of a group of thirteen, and yet they couldn't manage a baby-sitter between them. The children were left alone every night of the holiday, establishing a pattern of behaviour for anyone bent on snatching the child. They were also staying in a ground floor apartment allowing ease of access.

The McCann's initial reactions were odd... though excusable given their loss. Portugal has a very low incidence of child abduction and assault but the McCann's initially disparaged the Portuguese suggesting their daughter had been snatched by a local.

The other thing slightly odd about this case is their wish to remain in Portugal rather than return to their UK home, though they have travelled extensively trying to rouse support in the search for their daughter.

Whatever happened, it is a tragedy for the child and the family.

 

[3113]

I cannot imagine how any parent could do this on a regular basis. So let's say this was the first time they had left their three children alone like this.

[Shaking head] Naw, naw. I don't buy it. You don't just decide that your little four-year-old is big enough to watch over her twin sisters. You do something like this if you're dining maybe right next door, or out on the balcony, or at the restaurant that's a few steps from your room. You do this if the kids are all napping and you know they'll be napping for hours. You do this if you plan on getting up in between courses to check on them because, once again, the restaurant is only a few steps from your room.

But you don't just suddenly decide to do this if you've got toddlers. Either you do this a lot and you're irresponsible (you've some weird idea that kids can take care of themselves and you routinely ignore them), or you know full well what toddlers get into and you're not going to do any such thing without a lot of precautions in place.

I can't buy that this is the first time they've ever done such a thing.

 

[cloudy]

I can't buy that this is the first time they've ever done such a thing.

Neither can I.

I've just now started leaving my seven-year-old alone in the house for ten minutes while I run to the convenience store on the corner.

 

[3113]

One of the most disturbing elements to this case is the family were part of a group of thirteen, and yet they couldn't manage a baby-sitter between them. The children were left alone every night of the holiday, establishing a pattern of behaviour for anyone bent on snatching the child.

You are fucking kidding me! Left alone *every night*? And who were these thirteen others and why didn't one of them object to this situation? Did all thirteen just leave their kids alone at night? This is unconscionable. You leave a kid of maybe nine or older alone in such a room, they can be put in front of the television for a few hours with the door securely locked and a cellphone on hand for emergencies...but a pair of toddlers and a 4 year old???

The other thing slightly odd about this case is their wish to remain in Portugal rather than return to their UK home

Not odd if they think their daughter is still in the country.

 

[3113]

I've just now started leaving my seven-year-old alone in the house for ten minutes while I run to the convenience store on the corner.

Well, we'll grant that Americans are paranoid and that in other countries (as in our own years ago) kids were allowed to run around on their own at a much younger age (like 7-8). Just get on their bikes and go.

But even if the 4 year old was smart enough to be trusted alone...how can you leave a pair of 2 year olds?

 

[neonlyte]

You are fucking kidding me! Left alone *every night*? And who were these thirteen others and why didn't one of them object to this situation? Did all thirteen just leave their kids alone at night? This is unconscionable. You leave a kid of maybe nine or older alone in such a room, they can be put in front of the television for a few hours with the door securely locked and a cellphone on hand for emergencies...but a pair of toddlers and a 4 year old???


Not odd if they think their daughter is still in the country.

Or one adult take it in turn each night to monitor the children.

Staying in Portugal might not be so odd if you committed a crime... even if it were accidental. The forensic service in UK is far superior to Portugal's and I have no doubt that the authorities in UK will have very serious questions for the McCann's about why they left the children alone. Without the enormous publicity and public support the McCann's have received in UK, they might likely have lost temporary custody of their other children while investigations were made.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

[Shaking head] Naw, naw. I don't buy it.

I can't buy that this is the first time they've ever done such a thing.

I guess.

I just cannot fathom how anyone could leave children of that age alone. No matter how "mature" the four year old is, or isn't. Accidents happen in the wink of an eye.

 

[3113]

I just cannot fathom how anyone could leave children of that age alone. No matter how "mature" the four year old is, or isn't. Accidents happen in the wink of an eye.

Indeed. All I can figure is that it was a late dinner and the kids were asleep. But still, kids wake up, get up, get into trouble.

I seem to recall being told that I was climbing out of my crib when I was about two years old. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the four-year old opened the door and just wandered out and about.

 

[neonlyte]

The father has also been officially made a suspect in the last few minutes.

Suspect status on Portugal means the person cannot be interviewed without the presence of a lawyer, and allows the police to change the nature of the questioning. Witnesses (their previous status) can request being made a suspect (to give them legal representation during questioning), it is not yet known if Mr McCann requested this status to put him on an equal basis as his wife.

 

[only_more_so]

Indeed. All I can figure is that it was a late dinner and the kids were asleep. But still, kids wake up, get up, get into trouble.

I seem to recall being told that I was climbing out of my crib when I was about two years old. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the four-year old opened the door and just wandered out and about.

I apparently was a crib-climber as well. Apparently even younger than 2. My parent's would put me to bed with an empty crib, and wake up to find all my toys in the crib.

A co-worker of mine had a nephew who was a regular houdini. Apparently the neighbors found him outside a number of times and were close to calling protective services. The child figured out how to move a chair to the door, so he could climb up and undo the deadbolt (they apparently sat up one night to watch what he did). Even when they moved a sofa in front of the door he managed to push it out of the way.

One day when I was driving to work (like 7am) I saw a little boy riding his bike around, he looked to be about 3-4. The front door of his house was open and there was no parent in sight. At first I just drove by, but I thought better turned around and investigated. I asked the kid where his parent's were and if anyone was home. He wandered back into the house. Another woman had also stopped and we yelled into the house to see if anyone was home. He was home alone with his older sister (looked to be about 10) who had been asleep.

So, I concur, kids are amazingly resourceful and can easily find a way to get into trouble, even in a few minutes. Maybe if you turned the playpen upside down and loaded it down with bricks you might stop a kid. Maybe.

 

[Ness73]

I don't know how much is true, but I have heard that they had left the balcony door unlocked so they could check on the kids without having to go through the hotel lobby, and also that they were swingers in Portugal for that very purpose. I also believe that the children were IVF conceived, and, not that every child isn't precious, but would that not make you never take a chance with their safety, seeing as how it was so hard to have them? Something is definitely suspect.

 

[English Lady]

One of the most disturbing elements to this case is the family were part of a group of thirteen, and yet they couldn't manage a baby-sitter between them. The children were left alone every night of the holiday, establishing a pattern of behaviour for anyone bent on snatching the child. They were also staying in a ground floor apartment allowing ease of access.

The McCann's initial reactions were odd... though excusable given their loss. Portugal has a very low incidence of child abduction and assault but the McCann's initially disparaged the Portuguese suggesting their daughter had been snatched by a local.

The other thing slightly odd about this case is their wish to remain in Portugal rather than return to their UK home, though they have travelled extensively trying to rouse support in the search for their daughter.

Whatever happened, it is a tragedy for the child and the family.

My husband and I have said exactly the same things -there was a BIG group of them, surely one could have stayed to babysit, taking i in turns for the week, or however long?

I could never, ever, ever leave my 5 year old alone, I just couln't contemplate it. Only once when he was a toddler did I leaver her ouside a shop in her pram (I just couldn't get the pram in the shop) and it had a shop fromt window and I stood by the window for the whole 2 minutes I was in there. I can't imagine leaving a child, any child alone at such a young age, especially when on holiday.

It's a sad, sad thing, whatever turns out to have happened.