Ike

[Colleen Thomas]

A & E is running show called Ike: Countdown to D-day. For those of you who aren't that interested in history or who shy from "war" movies, I would urge you to watch it. While I could put on my historian's hat and nit pick some historical inacuracies, it isn't really about that.

It's the story of ordinary men, thrust into extraordinary circumstance and a tribute to the humanity we all share. It's also a tribute to the greatest generation. There is no pro war or anti war bias. It, perhaps does not resonate today with the world we live in, but almost 60 years ago, it still resonates with things we all hold dear.

Honor, duty, scarifice, compromise and trust. It's memorial day, and on June 6, 1944 English, Canadian, and American men, most still in their teens began the liberation of Europe from the Nazis. They were followed by Poles, Dutch, French, Austrailain, New Zealnders, South Africans, Indians and men from all over the world. On that day, the people of the wrold stood up and shouted with one voice that this can not continue. They are called the greatest generation for a reason and they are dying now at the rate of over 1000 a day. In the not to distant future World War II will cease to be a living memory.

We all have our gripes & bitches about the world we live in today. Our different political, national and personal views are at odds over everything from the war in Iraq to smoking in public. We fight a nasty series of minor battles in these forums almost daily. But we should all stop a moment and say a thank you to the men & women of that generation. Without their sacrifice and courage, we might not have the freedom to argue over Anything, much less matters of global importance. They came together, from all over the world, that freedom should endure and tyranny be put down. We may never see their like again.

Thank you, to all men & women of that generation. God speed & god bless where ever you may be.

-Colly

 

[minsue]

Hear hear

 

[Xelebes]

Wait, werem't the Poles being slowly freed by the Russians at the moment and were fighting the Germans on the Eastern front? And even if they could, how would they be getting around Denmark? Just nitpicking here and curious.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Wait, werem't the Poles being slowly freed by the Russians at the moment and were fighting the Germans on the Eastern front? And even if they could, how would they be getting around Denmark? Just nitpicking here and curious.

The government's in exile included Poland. The free poles came ashore at normandy and the polish paratroopers suffered trmendous casualties in Operation Market Garden several months later.

-Colly

Edited for clarification.

 

[cantdog]

Fabulous piece of modern history.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

I'd love to watch it, but don't get the A & E channel.

~lucky

p.s. Thanks for sharing, though. Maybe I can get my Dad to TiVo it for me.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Wait, werem't the Poles being slowly freed by the Russians at the moment and were fighting the Germans on the Eastern front? And even if they could, how would they be getting around Denmark? Just nitpicking here and curious.

To pick another nit, the Poles weren't being freed by the USSR, they were on the verge of sort of being reconquered. In 1939, Germany invaded from the west and occupied part of Poland and the USSR invaded from the east and occupied the rest. When Germany attacked the USSR two years later, they rolled over the part held by the Soviets and a lot more and by D-Day, the Soviets had still not succeeded in driving the Germans from their own territory, let alone "freeing" Poland. With fighting on three European fronts and their allies out of the war, Germany fell fairly quickly after D-Day.

 

[Green_Gem]

Nice sentiments Colleen, but I'd like to add a gripe to 'modern day history.'

How come nobody's doing a fuck about Zimbabwe and the gross human right violations there?

I watched about 10 minutes of the SKY interview with Mad Bob Mugabe last week ( couldn't endure anymore) and almost puked.

You know when that man is lying? Everytime his lips move! And the world indulges him!

Sorry just seemed a good place to gripe.

Green_Gem

 

[amicus]

Colleen... What a lovely tribute and I join you in the memorial for that generation, men and women.

When I visited Europe, the Cliffs of Dover, the Beaches of Normandy...and then, motorcycling across France, to accidentally find a huge unkempt bronze statue of a woman holding a child in her arms, in a field of white crosses, well...it was an experience as fresh today as it was in 1970.

Thank you.

warm regards, amicus (PS I watched the Tom Sellect thing, twice, last night)

 

[rgraham666]

I never forget Colleen.

And I'm impressed with your knowledge of history.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I never forget Colleen.

And I'm impressed with your knowledge of history.

ty. It's one of the few area's of knowledge wehre I feel I am really well informed.

For the good of us all lets hope we never forget.

-Colly

 

[houston32M]

Funny thing is.......

They all have short memories, and the French Gov't was a bastard then, and their gov't is now.

 

[Guest]

Damn!

I thought this thread was about some functional Swedish furniture.

Fuck them idiots who go to wars (Huns Solo is the coolest).

 

[Boxlicker101]

Damn!

I thought this thread was about some functional Swedish furniture.

Fuck them idiots who go to wars (Huns Solo is the coolest).

I agree. Fuck them idiots who go to war. But, all praises to the people who did the actual fucking of them idiots who went to war because if it hadn't been for those people, the idiots who went to war would be fucking us right now.

 

[Pure]

I was a little disappointed in AE's (or maybe Selleck's) Ike. Seemed too much in his head. Just saw a bit, but had the impression that the Soviets situation, and push for a second front got slighted.


I have however, seen some excellent Dday documentaries, including Dday in Color and Third Reich in Color; rare archival color footage.

There has also been an excellent doc of the Canadians landing at Juno Beach, getting mowed down 80%. I guess that's what the Brit's felt was a job for the colonials. Even when a cause is right, many die sensessly.

My favorite WWWII doc is the CBC one on the fall of Hong Kong. Utterly shattering.

Was this the last of the 'right causes'? (Where is the hell is Zimbabwe, anyway?).

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I was a little disappointed in AE's (or maybe Selleck's) Ike. Seemed too much in his head. Just saw a bit, but had the impression that the Soviets situation, and push for a second front got slighted.


I have however, seen some excellent Dday documentaries, including Dday in Color and Third Reich in Color; rare archival color footage.

There has also been an excellent doc of the Canadians landing at Juno Beach, getting mowed down 80%. I guess that's what the Brit's felt was a job for the colonials. Even when a cause is right, many die sensessly.

My favorite WWWII doc is the CBC one on the fall of Hong Kong. Utterly shattering.

Was this the last of the 'right causes'? (Where is the hell is Zimbabwe, anyway?).

It's hard to pin point a right cause for war. Certainly here if you were French, British, Poleish, Danish, Dutch, Russian, Chineese, Fillipino, etc. etc. you had just cause. Defense of your homeland from an agressor nation is always just. Noone deserves to be enslaved.

I think however this may have been the last time there was a definte set of good guys & bad guys. While history has shown that the good guys white hats may have been off white, there is no doubt that the bad guy's black hats were deepest black.

A lot of history books call it the last "good" war. I think by that they mean it was the last time that the evil of one ide was so apalling and so apparent, that no one could challenge the rightness of trying to destroy them.

-Colly

 

[Boxlicker101]

It's hard to pin point a right cause for war. Certainly here if you were French, British, Poleish, Danish, Dutch, Russian, Chineese, Fillipino, etc. etc. you had just cause. Defense of your homeland from an agressor nation is always just. Noone deserves to be enslaved.

I think however this may have been the last time there was a definte set of good guys & bad guys. While history has shown that the good guys white hats may have been off white, there is no doubt that the bad guy's black hats were deepest black.

A lot of history books call it the last "good" war. I think by that they mean it was the last time that the evil of one ide was so apalling and so apparent, that no one could challenge the rightness of trying to destroy them.

-Colly

Even in WW2 there is some ambiguity. The two main Axis nations were strictly evil but one of the main allies was not much better. The USSR was a German ally in the early stages of the war and invaded Poland, Finland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. They annexed the latter three and those three nations just became independent fairly recently. Even now, Russia retains territory taken from Finland, and Belarus, formerly part of the USSR retains the part of Poland that was conquered.

On the other hand, Finland, one of the most honorable nations in the world at the time, is now considered to have been an Axis nation because they attacked the USSR along with Germany. Their cause was 100% just; they were trying to regain some of what had been stolen from them a year earlier.

I may be mistaken but I believe that, even with the almost constant warfare since then, this was the last time that one nation ever declared war on another.

If I had to name a just war since then, it would probably be the British defense of The Falklands when a fascist dictatorship (Argentina) tried to occupy the islands to assert their dubious claims to the territory. I also believe the 1956 Hungarian rebellion would be considered just, although unsuccessful, when they tried to end the domination by a foreign power. There may have been some others, but they would be problematical now.

 

[Pure]

Box: "If I had to name a just war since then, it would probably be the British defense of The Falklands ...."

Yeah. Somehow that didn't make my top 10 just wars of the 20th century list.

Now the noble defense of Kuwaitis by Americans bringing them freedom (under Bush Sr.), *there's* a just war!

 

[amicus]

The very root of war is but a man or a woman using physical force to defend themselves and their loved ones.

It is proper and honorable to cherish those who have done so.

Still, Colly, a nice tribute, don't let the pacifists shadow your thoughts.

amicus

 

[Raging Whoremoans]

The very root of war is but a man or a woman using physical force to defend themselves and their loved ones.

It is proper and honorable to cherish those who have done so.

Still, Colly, a nice tribute, don't let the pacifists shadow your thoughts.

amicus

war: A contest between nations or states, carried on by force, whether for defence, for revenging insults and redressing wrongs, for the extension of commerce, for the acquisition of territory, for obtaining and establishing the superiority and dominion of one over the other, or for any other purpose; armed conflict of sovereign powers; declared and open hostilities.

How can the very root of war be based on people defending themselves and their loved ones? If everyone's only trying to defend, then there would be no attack, no war. In my opinion, war is one of those things that is way too multi-faceted to have such a specific root. The root of war is any one thing taken to the extreme, i.e. greed, power, revenge, defense, love, pain...

pacifism: The belief that disputes between nations should and can be settled peacefully.

Nowhere in the definition of pacifism does it state that wars of the past and those that fought in them were unjust or should not be honored for their service and sacrifice. The simple desire to move past a need for violence is not a bad thing and after speaking to my Grandfather and several of the men that fought beside him in WWII, a world without war is their life's wish.

~ R W

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

And now for a spot of randomness:

"Blessed are the warmakersw for they get shiny armored pants"

You may now return to killing each other in a civilized manner.

 

[Raging Whoremoans]

And now for a spot of randomness:

"Blessed are the warmakersw for they get shiny armored pants"

You may now return to killing each other in a civilized manner.

So what you're saying is that it's all about the pants...

~ R W

 

[amicus]

Raging Whoremoans....

Yes..I can find a definition of, 'war' all by my little self, my friend.

Not all work and build and accumulate and protect and defend. Some steal, some rape and pillage and plunder.

What makes those, 'individuals' act in such a way? I do not know, I do not understand the criminal mind.

But, they are out there and if one does not defend and protect against them, the you lose what you love and what you have worked for.

War is not just an abstraction in terms of nations and city states and tribes and as much history as you wish to add.

'War', or conflict between individuals or groups is very complex and has been a part of the nature of man since the very beginning.

I think the concept must be embraced as an essential characteritic of the nature of man and understood if it can be.

amicus

 

[Raging Whoremoans]

Raging Whoremoans....

I think the concept must be embraced as an essential characteritic of the nature of man and understood if it can be.

amicus

Well you go right ahead and embrace war. I hope it keeps you warm at night.

Why not embrace the causes of war and attempt to understand them so that war is eventually fazed out? Why must we embrace something so ugly and accept it? I agree it is a huge concept and think I even said so in my last post, but in my thinking, to accept something so dreadful and ugly is to (in essence) promote it.

I don't accept it. I can see reality and watch it happening, but that doesn't remove the need in me to hope it's the last time I ever see it.

"an essential characteristic of the nature of man"? Are you serious? Let us understand it, but let us not ever embrace it or simply accept that it happens and roll on.

~ R W

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

So what you're saying is that it's all about the pants...

~ R W

Well, I did say pants were the root of all evil...
https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=251069&perpage=25&pagenumber=4 (scroll to the last post)

(hamlet lament) Why must we all die for the shiny pants?!?