If there's submissive frenzy, is there submissive depression?

[13thFallenAngel]

After reading through Kailey_86's thread and some relevant webpages (with judicious bookmarking) I think I'm a submissive. Yay for my self identity! XD

This revelation may tie in with the current...problems... in my life but when I was reading up on submissive frenzy, I was wondering if there were any other versions like for example submissive depression and what not.

 

[Aeroil]

This question enrages me. AEROIL SMASH.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

After reading through Kailey_86's thread and some relevant webpages (with judicious bookmarking) I think I'm a submissive. Yay for my self identity! XD

This revelation may tie in with the current...problems... in my life but when I was reading up on submissive frenzy, I was wondering if there were any other versions like for example submissive depression and what not.

In regards to 'submissive depression' as a separate entity to general depression which I do not have an issue with I think in my experience the only true answer for me is yes.

I think its cyclic and a definite evolution that comes and goes in periods of frustration and stagnation. After times of frenzy perhaps more evident. For me its the question over and over is this title of submissive suitable to me. Lovely great phases of self doubt . Will I find that place I was before when I was more content. Will the independence I have had to develop inhibit any future potential to submit ? Its once again recognizing my drive to reciprocate submissively in a relationship actually hinders my freedom to explore relationships of a non D/s nature and a mourning also at how limiting that truth can present itself.

This for me is not the classic serotonin depleted style of depression but more a reflection of self introspection in regards to ones submissive nature and the real quite often negative ramifications that may accompany.

I may add to this in my morning its been a big day here ........smiles

Good Luck with the Thread its an interesting potential topic and one I know I will return to as a form of checks and balances of sorts

 

[13thFallenAngel]

This question enrages me. AEROIL SMASH.

...............................

Okay, did I say something wrong or did some random person enter the thread?

 

[13thFallenAngel]

In regards to 'submissive depression' as a separate entity to general depression which I do not have an issue with I think in my experience the only true answer for me is yes.

I think its cyclic and a definite evolution that comes and goes in periods of frustration and stagnation. After times of frenzy perhaps more evident. For me its the question over and over is this title of submissive suitable to me. Lovely great phases of self doubt . Will I find that place I was before when I was more content. Will the independence I have had to develop inhibit any future potential to submit ? Its once again recognizing my drive to reciprocate submissively in a relationship actually hinders my freedom to explore relationships of a non D/s nature and a mourning also at how limiting that truth can present itself.

This for me is not the classic serotonin depleted style of depression but more a reflection of self introspection in regards to ones submissive nature and the real quite often negative ramifications that may accompany.

I may add to this in my morning its been a big day here ........smiles

Good Luck with the Thread its an interesting potential topic and one I know I will return to as a form of checks and balances of sorts

Thanks for your input! And I hope you'll return soon!

 

[13thFallenAngel]

ack......this thread is dying an early death!

 

[BeachGurl2]

In regards to 'submissive depression' as a separate entity to general depression which I do not have an issue with I think in my experience the only true answer for me is yes.

I think its cyclic and a definite evolution that comes and goes in periods of frustration and stagnation. After times of frenzy perhaps more evident. For me its the question over and over is this title of submissive suitable to me. Lovely great phases of self doubt . Will I find that place I was before when I was more content. Will the independence I have had to develop inhibit any future potential to submit ? Its once again recognizing my drive to reciprocate submissively in a relationship actually hinders my freedom to explore relationships of a non D/s nature and a mourning also at how limiting that truth can present itself.

This for me is not the classic serotonin depleted style of depression but more a reflection of self introspection in regards to ones submissive nature and the real quite often negative ramifications that may accompany.

I may add to this in my morning its been a big day here ........smiles

Good Luck with the Thread its an interesting potential topic and one I know I will return to as a form of checks and balances of sorts

I, too, experience this kind of 'depression', although I haven't really referred to it as such. I think the part I highlighted in blue is exactly right on for me as well. I don't question my submissiveness, though. I know without a doubt that it is there and it is real.

For me, the need to be guided/nurtured, to not always be the one in charge, and yes, to serve, are inherent in my personality. When I don't have that in my life, I do get depressed, although not in the classic sense. I tend to go inside myself, to hibernate in a way. I put on this great face for the public, including my friends and family, when inside I feel as if I'm dying. I feel as if my life lacks meaning, focus, even sometimes worth. Oh, I know logically that isn't the case, that my life does in fact have meaning and is worth something, but a very huge part of what I need is missing. So I tend to float through my days, going to work, doing the mom thing at home, but not really 'feeling', if that makes any sense. I'm not sure I can explain it any more clearly, as it's not really clear to me. It's something I've spent a lot of time thinking about, though, because I know it's something I do.

This thread has come at an interesting time for me, as I'm in the middle of this sort of 'submissive depression', for lack of a better term. My last relationship was very vanilla and lacked what I needed in the D/s sense, and my relationship prior to that was with a very selfish, self-involved Dom, so wasn't healthy for me - but thank goodness it was very short lived. So it's been quite awhile since I've had a positive D/s relationship. That adds up, I think, so that I get to the point where it can be pretty overwhelming.

I do believe it's cyclic, as Rebecca mentioned, and I've come to recognize the signs within myself. I allow myself to wallow in it a bit for awhile, to sort of recoup you might say, but then I do what I can to pull myself out of it and move forward. I've come to the frustrating point of just plain not wanting to date because those men I've met, primarily online, just don't fill the bill for me. So I step back, recoup, reevaluate, and then I'll be ready to get back out there again.

I hope this thread doesn't die a quick death. I think it's something that many submissives, especially those without a D/s relationship, probably experience to differing degrees. Those of us who are submissives in life and not just bedroom submissives have a very deep need to be of use to someone.

As you are on your journey to discovering your submissiveness, I've attached a link to an essay that was especially telling for me. In fact, my sig line is a quote from this essay because it was something that spoke to me when I was on my journey of discovery. Maybe it will speak to you as well.

 

[cuklet]

sub space and loss

Speaking just for myself....

If I am in serious "sub space" for more than a few hours, I feel a sense of depression and loss when I come out the other side. Its as if I've finished a good book, and I miss the characters! Where did they go?

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

I, too, experience this kind of 'depression', although I haven't really referred to it as such. I think the part I highlighted in blue is exactly right on for me as well. I don't question my submissiveness, though. I know without a doubt that it is there and it is real.

Considering all my serious relationships from the age of 19 have encompassed D/s it surprises me as well I question myself. I am like cardboard exposed to a potential non D/s relationship , nothing there , bland and uninspired no matter how truly unique , wonderful , generous etc etc the other party may be. Then again its become harder and harder for me to muster any real enthusiasm for Dominants either in recent times. Something seems 'off task' and hence I make the comment regards questioning my own submissiveness. Is that part of some 'submissive depression' I honestly don't know. Perhaps its a form of pervading cynicism or a security blanket of sorts. I spoke with a very experienced friend on this very topic just yesterday morning in fact. She said in no uncertain terms that I am a submissive ( YIPEE sighs ) as I always have been just that I am temporarily 'corrupted'. I had to go at this stage of the conversation to attend a family celebration so I was unable to further explore via her over 20 years of lifestyle experience exactly what she meant by that. History of that friendship she is often correct .Guess I will conclude that talk some time in the near future.

For me, the need to be guided/nurtured, to not always be the one in charge, and yes, to serve, are inherent in my personality. When I don't have that in my life, I do get depressed, although not in the classic sense. I tend to go inside myself, to hibernate in a way. I put on this great face for the public, including my friends and family, when inside I feel as if I'm dying. I feel as if my life lacks meaning, focus, even sometimes worth. Oh, I know logically that isn't the case, that my life does in fact have meaning and is worth something, but a very huge part of what I need is missing. So I tend to float through my days, going to work, doing the mom thing at home, but not really 'feeling', if that makes any sense. I'm not sure I can explain it any more clearly, as it's not really clear to me. It's something I've spent a lot of time thinking about, though, because I know it's something I do.

This thread has come at an interesting time for me, as I'm in the middle of this sort of 'submissive depression', for lack of a better term. My last relationship was very vanilla and lacked what I needed in the D/s sense, and my relationship prior to that was with a very selfish, self-involved Dom, so wasn't healthy for me - but thank goodness it was very short lived. So it's been quite awhile since I've had a positive D/s relationship. That adds up, I think, so that I get to the point where it can be pretty overwhelming.

I do believe it's cyclic, as Rebecca mentioned, and I've come to recognize the signs within myself. I allow myself to wallow in it a bit for awhile, to sort of recoup you might say, but then I do what I can to pull myself out of it and move forward. I've come to the frustrating point of just plain not wanting to date because those men I've met, primarily online, just don't fill the bill for me. So I step back, recoup, reevaluate, and then I'll be ready to get back out there again.

I hope this thread doesn't die a quick death. I think it's something that many submissives, especially those without a D/s relationship, probably experience to differing degrees. Those of us who are submissives in life and not just bedroom submissives have a very deep need to be of use to someone.

As you are on your journey to discovering your submissiveness, I've attached a link to an essay that was especially telling for me. In fact, my sig line is a quote from this essay because it was something that spoke to me when I was on my journey of discovery. Maybe it will speak to you as well.

Okay my turn to pick a line ........smiles

Can we just take the line in blue Beachgurl and expand the notion as I believe you meant it and I understand it. Naturally please return and correct me if I have lead it astray.

'Those of us who are submissives in life and not just bedroom submissives have a very deep need to be of use to someone.'

Making it very clear that 'someone' is not anyone and no matter how much you are seen to serve , care or 'whatever' its about service and power exchanged with 'the one' that brings about a sense of completion/contentment. No amount of anything else resolves that for me personally.

My list has grown and the longer I remain unpartnered the harder it seems. I don't play and I won't compromise . The cheek of me to be so fussy and so full of doubt at times. Not really sure what it is I have to offer sometimes and this does not come from a point of low self esteem. Nor do I fit the criteria of the woman who has to be in a relationship or her life has little validation. This resides in the true expressions of symbiotic power exchange as I have been blessed to share with dominants prior to now. Ahhhhhhhhh angst......smiles.........a little 'submissive depression' seems quite valid.

I also think it may be pertinent to once again define I am not comparing this with clinical depression. Closer experience of that in family and friends makes my 'issues' appear a walk in the park in hindsight. Perhaps 'submissive melancholy' may be a more suitable 'term' if there must be one. I have huge respect for those that really suffer the severe sometimes chronically immobilising affects of 'mainstream' variants of depression.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Okay my turn to pick a line ........smiles

Can we just take the line in blue Beachgurl and expand the notion as I believe you meant it and I understand it. Naturally please return and correct me if I have lead it astray.

'Those of us who are submissives in life and not just bedroom submissives have a very deep need to be of use to someone.'

Making it very clear that 'someone' is not anyone and no matter how much you are seen to serve , care or 'whatever' its about service and power exchanged with 'the one' that brings about a sense of completion/contentment. No amount of anything else resolves that for me personally.

My list has grown and the longer I remain unpartnered the harder it seems. I don't play and I won't compromise . The cheek of me to be so fussy and so full of doubt at times. Not really sure what it is I have to offer sometimes and this does not come from a point of low self esteem. Nor do I fit the criteria of the woman who has to be in a relationship or her life has little validation. This resides in the true expressions of symbiotic power exchange as I have been blessed to share with dominants prior to now. Ahhhhhhhhh angst......smiles.........a little 'submissive depression' seems quite valid.

I also think it may be pertinent to once again define I am not comparing this with clinical depression. Closer experience of that in family and friends makes my 'issues' appear a walk in the park in hindsight. Perhaps 'submissive melancholy' may be a more suitable 'term' if there must be one. I have huge respect for those that really suffer the severe sometimes chronically immobilising affects of 'mainstream' variants of depression.

Oh, I completely agree, Rebecca. The need to serve, to be of use, is not a universal one, hence in my mind the 'melancholy'. I like that term better than depression, too, because I think it is more descriptive of the emotion. I think for me that is the basis of it. That inability to find 'the one' who is the yang to my yin, so to speak. I'm not willing to settle for less than I deserve just to have a D/s relationship. I'd rather continue on alone, thank you very much. Even when I am at my lonliest, that is much better than being in the wrong relationship. Been there, done that, not doing it again. And in reality, that kind of relationship causes even greater depression/melancholy because it isn't only not fulfilling, it is demeaning to serve the wrong person. I'm submissive, not a doormat, and that level of humiliation is on my very hard limits list.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Oh, I completely agree, Rebecca. The need to serve, to be of use, is not a universal one, hence in my mind the 'melancholy'. I like that term better than depression, too, because I think it is more descriptive of the emotion. I think for me that is the basis of it. That inability to find 'the one' who is the yang to my yin, so to speak. I'm not willing to settle for less than I deserve just to have a D/s relationship. I'd rather continue on alone, thank you very much. Even when I am at my lonliest, that is much better than being in the wrong relationship. Been there, done that, not doing it again. And in reality, that kind of relationship causes even greater depression/melancholy because it isn't only not fulfilling, it is demeaning to serve the wrong person. I'm submissive, not a doormat, and that level of humiliation is on my very hard limits list.

Thank you BeachGurl its somewhat reassuring to find level ground with another I respect

 

[BeachGurl2]

Thank you BeachGurl its somewhat reassuring to find level ground with another I respect

Thank you, Rebecca. The feeling is definitely mutual.

 

[Aeroil]

...............................

Okay, did I say something wrong or did some random person enter the thread?

lol, I was making a joke based on "submissive frenzy". In truth I have no idea what it is.

I get depressed a fair bit, doubt it's cus I'm a subbie though...

 

[Never]

Submissive Frenzies

Author: Mistress Steele © 1995-2001



Submissive Frenzies are a state or condition that many if not all submissives will experience at one time or another. Many aspects of BDSM are similar to addictions in how they play out in the mind. From that perspective the Frenzies can be considered to be the 'withdrawal' stage. The peculiar thing about this is that a submissive need not ever have engaged in a real life D/s BDSM experience to actually go into this state of need. Generally the very first experience a submissive will have will be prior to ever engaging in a real life D/s event. Many submissives can chronicle a 'longing' or unspecified 'need' which may have begun when they were quite little. This sensation was always present though generally unacknowledged or openly reviewed. In many cases the submissive was not able to identify the source of this sensation. It simply made them restless and on occasion subject to frustrated outbursts.

With the 'finding' of the D/s BDSM community many submissives feel a corresponding 'surge' of excitement. Suddenly they sense or feel that this is the source. The realization or identification of this can be both positive and negative. For many there is a period of denial, anger, repugnance, fear, hesitation, temerity and hope. All of these emotions seem to occur simultaneously leaving behind confusion and anxiety. All at once they begin to 'sort' the events and motivations that have occurred over their entire lives. Seeing the patterns, the hints, the presence of their desires in so many different ways. It explains previous unexplainable actions they may have taken and views the actions of themselves and others from an entirely different standpoint. As they begin to process all of this new information they become fully aware that the source of all those supressed needs and desires is attainable. Not only that but in a fairly accessible in a timely manner.

What occurs next is a mad dash or race toward 'finding' that special person who can attend to those so long unattended needs coupled to a desperate desire to gather more and more information. This often triggers or propels the initiation of a state of frenzy. This is an increasing and progressive sensation of 'need'. Fairly quickly the submissive may discover that 'getting their fix', becomes supremely important in their lives. It can leave them irrational, willing to make poor decisions, rash, impulsive and generally stupid. A submissive in a frenzied state is at their most vulnerable to succumbing to the ploys of those less than admirable. They may become easily enthralled, believe themselves 'in love', willing to give over anything (almost literally) in order to fill that enormous void in their life.

Contact with a Dominant, almost any kind will tend to rivet their attention. The very first gift that the submissive gives away here is their common sense. The sensations piggyback, by this I mean that the submissive upon discovering the community and all the excitement and feelings surrounding 'finding their home', may easily pile on their 'desire' for completion and pounce on the first candidate that comes along as being 'the one'. They invest everything, believe everything and leap at the opportunity. Too often they discover they have grabbed at a tin ring instead of a brass one, they have some sort of nasty or unpleasant experience and step back trying to discover what is wrong in their new world.

In addition, a submissive who has detached from their Dominant will slowly but surely go into a state of need. This is in my opinion a naturally occurring state by which the submissive projects their availability and desire for a new mate. I should also mention that the experiences within the relationship are in many ways addictive. The state of natural euphoria that a submissive may experience during a scene can set off a hunger to experience that again. This is identical to the introduction of any addictive drug chemistries into the body, the same symptomology in many ways.

A submissive in a pre-frenzy need state will often become very alluring, flattering, flexible. They will mirror the apparent 'needs' of the Dominant they are talking to in order to appear to be the perfect candidate for a future alliance. Though the submissives in general do not tend to lie here, many only present partial truth's. One said to me, "you have to ask me the right question". This leads to multiple problems including a submissive attaching to a Dominant that is completely unsuitable for them.

As I noted earlier this state of frenzy can occur at any point in a submissive's life and is not limited to the new submissive. In fact, it occurs sometimes even stronger in more seasoned submissives. They have a need that they recognize as perhaps to 'have their edges taken off', and they know exactly how that can be done through their own experience. The difference is that the older submissive can then 'evaluate' what part of their need is pressing upon them. Many then learn to go to a Dominant they are not bonded to and ask this person they trust (often as a good friend) to relieve their physical need (play). Many Dominant's (experienced ones) will be willing to assist or aide their friend knowing that keeping the submissives edges down will allow that submissive to retain the majority of their rational functions while they are seeking their next mate. This action 'reduces' the submissives vulnerability.

From a Dominant's standpoint it is preferable to discourse with a submissive who is in their best condition. It is very important for the Dominant to learn to recognize the symptoms of frenzy and allow for the premise that the submissive's judgment may be impaired when speaking with them. This allowance should propel detailed questions. Also the Dominant should give 'few' hints as to what they may be looking for. In this way the submissive is more likely to reveal themselves as they do not have a guide to go on. By this I mean that the Dominant should take control and ask what the submissive is looking for instead of offering or directing the submissives attention as to what the Dominant is seeking. In this way the Dominant can generally get a clearer picture of where that submissive is in truth. In addition I believe that the Dominant should not allow the submissive to thrust their 'submissiveness' at them, instead they should require the submissive to respond to them in neutral or top space as an equal from one human to another. This means that allowing a submissive to use an honorific title when addressing the Dominant should be something that submissive should earn the right to do after a period of time. In example . . . I am not every submissive's Mistress. The right to call me Mistress is something in my real life that I grant seldom and means that this submissive is special to me.

By taking this action the Dominant forces the submissive into a less vulnerable state when conversing with them. Somewhat like drinking coffee to wake someone up. It is also saying that submission is something I (as the Dominant) may allow you to present to me. It is not something I will allow you (as the submissive) to force upon me.

 

[Aeroil]

Submissive Frenzies

Author: Mistress Steele © 1995-2001

<cut>

......

That gave me chills, how eerily accurate I acted when I first got involved :/

 

[13thFallenAngel]

wow! I got my sleep and my internet kaputed on me and I find the thread alive! yay!


But wow, you guys just made a lot of things clear for me.

I tend to go inside myself, to hibernate in a way. I put on this great face for the public, including my friends and family, when inside I feel as if I'm dying. I feel as if my life lacks meaning, focus, even sometimes worth. Oh, I know logically that isn't the case, that my life does in fact have meaning and is worth something, but a very huge part of what I need is missing. So I tend to float through my days, going to work, doing the mom thing at home, but not really 'feeling', if that makes any sense. I'm not sure I can explain it any more clearly, as it's not really clear to me.

sincerely, this just summed up what I'm currently going through, except that I kinda stopped going through the motions. Kind of like a wind up toy slowing down and it's now affecting certain parts of my Life because I don't see a point in doing it anymore (which is pretty bad because this means that I'm flunking Uni whoopsies). Actually, I think I may have operated under those conditions many times before but it's only now that it's gotten this bad.

This is a scary prospect for me, my submissiveness is a painful revelation despite years of rebelling against controlling parents but at the same time it makes a lot of sense and answers a lot of questions.

 

[Kailey_86]

After reading through Kailey_86's thread and some relevant webpages (with judicious bookmarking) I think I'm a submissive. Yay for my self identity! XD

i am very happy to know that i helped someone in some way. i am excited for you! Good luck and have fun.

 

[13thFallenAngel]

i am very happy to know that i helped someone in some way. i am excited for you! Good luck and have fun.

*squees* by the way, I bookmarked your thread!



hehehehee!

 

[Kailey_86]

*squees* by the way, I bookmarked your thread!



hehehehee!

*Big Hug*

 

[jadefirefly]

Holy damn. I had no idea there was a name for what my life's been like for the past four months, let alone that other people had the same problems.

I can't say it any better than rebecca or beachgurl did, but I can throw in my nametag as completely understanding -exactly- what they're talking about.

 

[13thFallenAngel]

Holy damn. I had no idea there was a name for what my life's been like for the past four months, let alone that other people had the same problems.

I can't say it any better than rebecca or beachgurl did, but I can throw in my nametag as completely understanding -exactly- what they're talking about.

*hugs*

It feels great to know, you are not alone!


Now, just have to figure out how to crawl my way back up....hmm...

 

[gingermango]

That gave me chills, how eerily accurate I acted when I first got involved :/

Me too. That's a pretty amazing summary of the psychology, for me. That kind of initial frenzy helped hasten the end of a stifling marriage, though it took awhile to play out.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

A Note of Concern ~

Pervasive as these feelings can be I do not let them become an excuse to drop my responsibility to myself or others. I think there is a real potential to paint oneself into victim mode and I would warn all to fight that as best they can.

If you have become so focused on the 'melancholy' itself that your personal standards drop and you are failing average commitments in your life . It may be time to drop the 'wilting submissive' and talk to a friend who you know will be supportive but won't take a soft option with you. Failing that a talk with Dr you trust isn't going to write a script and send you on your merry way. It may be that some real borderline depression is being experienced or not , its prudent to really find out.

While I give serious consideration to 'submissive melancholy' as I have personally described it, for me it must be compartmentalised. I refuse to live my life in a fog for that alone . That's not to say all is bright and peppy all the time but I do endeavour to live well and be happy in spite of it. There are enough diverse reasons to live in grief , I think respecting yourself and your submissive nature its important not to give over to negativity past what is 'actual'. If you need to use this as an excuse then consider it in reverse perhaps. Rather than indulging yourself and living in misery try and turn it around, everything that makes you stronger , more skilled , happier and healthier will reflect well in your life whether you enter into any new partnership or not . You will still be in front and you owe yourself that. If you don't and can't value yourself enough to do this you might want consider the possible motives of a Dominant that actively seeks a submissive that cares so little for herself she indulges in being 'broken'. Just a thought.....

 

[chris9]

ack......this thread is dying an early death!

On this forum a thread usually takes a day or two to develope. In a way this thread was not dying an early death but slowly coming to life. Be patient.

 

[BeachGurl2]

A Note of Concern ~

Pervasive as these feelings can be I do not let them become an excuse to drop my responsibility to myself or others. I think there is a real potential to paint oneself into victim mode and I would warn all to fight that as best they can.

If you have become so focused on the 'melancholy' itself that your personal standards drop and you are failing average commitments in your life . It may be time to drop the 'wilting submissive' and talk to a friend who you know will be supportive but won't take a soft option with you. Failing that a talk with Dr you trust isn't going to write a script and send you on your merry way. It may be that some real borderline depression is being experienced or not , its prudent to really find out.

While I give serious consideration to 'submissive melancholy' as I have personally described it, for me it must be compartmentalised. I refuse to live my life in a fog for that alone . That's not to say all is bright and peppy all the time but I do endeavour to live well and be happy in spite of it. There are enough diverse reasons to live in grief , I think respecting yourself and your submissive nature its important not to give over to negativity past what is 'actual'. If you need to use this as an excuse then consider it in reverse perhaps. Rather than indulging yourself and living in misery try and turn it around, everything that makes you stronger , more skilled , happier and healthier will reflect well in your life whether you enter into any new partnership or not . You will still be in front and you owe yourself that. If you don't and can't value yourself enough to do this you might want consider the possible motives of a Dominant that actively seeks a submissive that cares so little for herself she indulges in being 'broken'. Just a thought.....

Excellent point, Rebecca, and well said. When I go into hibernation, I always give myself a time limit - say a week - where it's all about me. I go to work, live my life, but I emotionally hibernate. When my time limit is up, I find myself ready to get back out there and face whatever comes. But it's because I know going in what I'm doing.