If someone knowingly passed on a disease to you....

[marieR19]

My answer here may sound bleak/stupid/etc, but here it is:
If someone knowingly passed on a serious disease to me, without telling me about the risk beforehand.... I'd probably be a little pissed that they didn't tell me, but I honestly wouldn't care about the disease itself that much. I have a lot of issues with death, and maybe that's why... I simply don't care about getting a disease. And I'm realizing just how bad that sounds, so I'm shutting up now.


Heather

 

[snowy ciara]

and the smell of cordite makes me horny, too.

 

[northwoods_sub]

Okay I said kill and when it came right down to it I probably wouldn't be able to do it, but I would make them wish they were dead. This is only in the case of INTENTIONAL infection.

There are cases when signs of certain infections are not apparent, so it is possible that someone could have something and not know it. If this is the case then there would be anger, shock and moving on. The lack of signs of infection can be the case with things like herpes, hpv, chlamydia. I can forgive accidental infection, but not intentionally making me ill.

 

[mitchell67]

re: crossed and contaminated

I thought both were considered an STD as oral sex received from someone with type 1 (or even transmission via the hands touching one area and then the other) can result in genital herpes and is how a lot of people have unknowingly contracted the disease.

Catalina

In the link I included, it explains that the herpes simplex virus type 1 can be passed through the most casual of contact, sharing a towel or an eating utensil, but that also means that it can be transferred sexually. For that matter, small pox and leprosy can be transmitted sexually but we don't think of them as STDs. AIDS falls into the category of an STD, but we all know that its transmission is not limited to sex. And yes, it is also true that the herpes type 1 virus can appear anywhere with people who have a compromised immune systems and at any time after transmission, or never for that matter. The nature of this virus is difficult to understand but the discussion can be clarified by referring to the sexually transmitted manner as herpes type 2. The original poster, however, never says what her disease is nor where it occurred, not even being certain when or how she could determine from whom, and yet this discussion went to the extremes of deadly diseases.

 

[im_a_voyeur]

Is it well known? You're thinking like a smart person. Stop doing that for a moment. (I know that's horribly non PC of me, but whatever)

If the person in question knows what you know, but isn't disclosing to their partners, then yeah, that's wrong and evil. However just because it's well known doesn't mean they know. Or know the implications, stats, and issues at hand.

However pointing out what a bastard/bitch someone's being is rarely a behavior altering way of dealing with a public health issue. As you WELL know.

Hopefully people will take advantage of the vaccines for HPV. Hopefully people will get their yearly exams so that if they have HPV any changes in tissue can be dealt with before they become cancerous.

Is it wrong? Yeah.
Unfortunately that never stopped anything from happening.

The person in question definitely knows the statistics and knows how the disease can be spread. They didn't believe at first that they were still contagious because there is information out there that says that after a while a person's immunity will suppress the virus and usually at that point the chances of passing it on is extremely low. Problem is though most people don't know at what point their body has suppressed it. The person in question has already infected one of their sexual partners since being diagnosed but that particular person knew what they were at risk for and took the chance. So in that case, at least the person was allowed to make an informed decision but that has been the only one so far who has gotten the chance to decide. The rest have not been told.

 

[PertPerth]

I know someone who got Hep C from her husband. He didn't tell her he had it and they got divorced. She's a very ill lady now.
I'd take legal action. Many STDs are life changing - and can make you infertile too.

 

[coy_one]

Edited..... Etoile, the voice of reason.

 

[Etoile]

coy_one, I can certainly see you're upset. However, as another person with the same virus, I have to point out that mitchell is right about how casually it can be passed. I recognize that you're irate, but he did present factual information. I'm sorry you felt the need to bring your personal dispute into a thread that has so far been about serious discussion. Trust me, I see how much you're fuming, but I'd really like to keep the thread on track and not get into back-and-forth personal sniping.

That goes for you too mitchell, I'd really really like to see this thread stay on topic because it is a sensitive topic for me, please don't make it into an argument.

 

[mitchell67]

re: topical

coy_one, I can certainly see you're upset. However, as another person with the same virus, I have to point out that mitchell is right about how casually it can be passed. I recognize that you're irate, but he did present factual information. I'm sorry you felt the need to bring your personal dispute into a thread that has so far been about serious discussion. Trust me, I see how much you're fuming, but I'd really like to keep the thread on track and not get into back-and-forth personal sniping.

That goes for you too mitchell, I'd really really like to see this thread stay on topic because it is a sensitive topic for me, please don't make it into an argument.

I might be wrong but doesn't the topic of a thread originate from the first posting? When the link to this thread was sent to me, I was at first bothered by the speedy reactions by some to read in the worst possible scenario of questioner and to suggest multiple means of physical retribution. In my response, I was attempting to refocus this thread in order to point out the misleading assumptions made by the first posting and the subsequent postings which were based on it. It is true that the thread has drifted into a serious topic about personal responsibilities and human health, and I wished to participate in that discussion, yet I also believed that it was relevant to point out the misinformation and to hint at the original purpose of the original posting.

 

[Etoile]

I might be wrong but doesn't the topic of a thread originate from the first posting? When the link to this thread was sent to me, I was at first bothered by the speedy reactions by some to read in the worst possible scenario of questioner and to suggest multiple means of physical retribution. In my response, I was attempting to refocus this thread in order to point out the misleading assumptions made by the first posting and the subsequent postings which were based on it. It is true that the thread has drifted into a serious topic about personal responsibilities and human health, and I wished to participate in that discussion, yet I also believed that it was relevant to point out the misinformation and to hint at the original purpose of the original posting.

You were quite fine...I just worried that you might "get into it" with coy_one and the thread would lose track.

 

[Etoile]

Edited..... Etoile, the voice of reason.

Thank you so much, darlin'. {{{coy_one}}} http://www.amanita.net/images/smilies/bighug.gif

 

[coy_one]

I just feel that if you have something - especially anything that is incurable, that you need to disclose it. Not wait until the person gets it. Yes, I was stupid in going on blind faith with that person. So, I do take some blame there. I knew that I was 100% clean, but I didn't force that other person to get tested and I should have.

Because what has happened in my own experience is really raw anger. I feel deceived and even ashamed. My anger is explosive, but it is also because of the way that person shrugged off responsibility as well.

I hate that person because we were in a trusting relationship and they put my health in jeopardy.

 

[coy_one]

I might be wrong but doesn't the topic of a thread originate from the first posting? When the link to this thread was sent to me, I was at first bothered by the speedy reactions by some to read in the worst possible scenario of questioner and to suggest multiple means of physical retribution.

Maybe I'm not the only person who feels the way that I do. As Etoile pointed out, it is a natual part of grieving. ANGER.

 

[DVS]

The thread title and opening sentences are:
"If someone knowingly passed on a disease to you....How would you feel? Think you could ever forgive that person, even though they never disclosed it?

There is no mention of any disease, serious or minor, curable or not. There is no mention if the thread starter has actually been the victim of such an act. That last line does lead one to assume the scenario to be more serious, and that the thread starter might have been a victim of such an act. But, many times threads are started just for the sake of discussion and the Cafe seems to be the ideal place for such discussions, because of its open and somewhat free atmosphere.

Originally, there was just the BDSM Talk forum. But, of the many different types of people that frequent this site and the BDSM area in general, some were more serious and structured and some were more recreational or laid back in their preferred method of posting. Eventually, those two types of posting clashed and after some debate, the Cafe was created.

The Cafe was created to be more open and available for those who don't like the confines of serious and more structured rules. It's possible to hijack a thread onto a different topic for a period of time, in the Cafe. It's not seen as a preferred method of action in threads with a topic such as this, but if the thread is created in the Cafe, anyone inclined to such action isn't condemned for it. And although we see it happen from time to time, it's considered just part of the way things are.

If a thread is started in the BDSM Talk forum, there might be a small amount of this going on, but that forum is meant to be kept for more serious questions and any altering or hijacking of the thread kept to a minimum. That is really only true in the BDSM Talk forum. If this thread had been started there, it might not get the same kind of reactionary posts. But personally, I think the Cafe gives someone a better cross section of answers. Sure, you sometimes have to deal with hijacks and such, but most people here are sensitive to the tone of threads.

I think this thread has taken the exact path it would normally take, given the template of the first post. Maybe if an actual disease had been mentioned or if an actual situation had been mentioned, it might have kept a more centered response. But, human nature being what it is, minds tend to wander and often the worst case scenario is soon mentioned. The word disease doesn't mean anything but something horrible and incurable and the so-called infection scenario was intentional and with malice and hate.

This may or may not have been what actually happened, but because the thread starter didn't mention any premise, I personally thought it was just another thought provoking thread.

In any event, personal retaliations and hatred should never interfere and open discussion should stay the topic of every post. Aside from the minor twists and turns that this thread has taken, I think it has been a very open and informative discussion...just like threads in the Cafe should be.

 

[Etoile]

DVS, you are my hero. http://www.amanita.net/images/smilies/2thumbsup.gif

 

[neonflux]

Coy_one, Etoile, I have been through those stages of regret, denial, anger, grief...

For those who don't know me, I haven't been around for a while (life is complex, full, difficult and joyful right now), but I heard about this thread from a couple of folks who know my history and who thought I might contribute something to the debate.

Caveat: I am very aware that I can only speak for myself.

BTW, this is going to be a long one...

I was infected with genital herpes about 2 years ago by a woman who I am sure knew she had it. At the time, I thought that she might have been the one, as far as women went. In retrospect, based on her behavior the one and only time that we had sex and on her initial response to my calling her, I suspect that she knew she was about to have an outbreak. (I didn't notice any blisters - as other folks have mentioned, lots of people are infected with both HSV-I and HSV-II without ever noticing anything, and in the early stages of infection, one can pass it on during symptomless phases through "viral shedding.") It took her over a month after I came down with symptoms and called for her to cop to having it.

I am a health educator; we did follow basic safer sex practices for women, but as other folks have mentioned, condoms/latex are only 74% effective in reducing the risk of transmission. I suspect we got it from using a feeldo (w/ condoms, but that doesn't cover the vulva). My outbreak, when it occurred, was horrible - extremely painful, lasted for a month. My worst regret is that I passed it onto the man who is now my primary/life partner before I ever had symptoms. My biggest shame is that as much as I knew about safer sex (we should have been washing ourselves a lot and I shouldn't have had a bikini wax beforehand), I still got it.

I was dating a number of people then (after 4 years of celibacy). Since I got symptoms about a week after we had contact and since the incubation period can be up to 30 days, I had to call several people and tell them to look for symptoms, get a baseline antibody test and then test again 2 months later (it can take that long for the antibodies to the virus to develop). They were some of the hardest calls I've ever made, I felt dirty, very ashamed (especially since I was a health educator and my partners trusted me for that reason), like a leper. As others have suggested, I also felt like my sex life was over. The diagnosis was so life shattering that even though I normally handle stress well, I became almost dysfunctional.

There is so much stigma attached to the infection - I've been told by gay/bi male friends that in the queer men's community here (San Francisco), it now carries a great deal more stigma than HIV (which of course, is much harder to catch and much easier to protect your partner from). There is still more stigma against it in the women's community. Yes, I was extremely angry, and yes, I felt very betrayed; I have not seen her in person since and I still avoid functions where I might run into her.

After I got the diagnosis, all I wanted to do was go back to the day before, the day when I didn't have it. Thus, even in the early stages of acceptance, I very quickly understood why she lied - she must have been in deep denial about having it and/or about her ability to transmit it.

Clearly, I am a different person from "L". I cannot have any type of genital contact without telling a prospective partner long before - these have been/are the hardest conversations I have ever had in my life. For the first year and a half after I got infected, I was convinced that I would never have sex with anyone who didn't have HSV-II also. I am now on Famvir, the most advanced med for controlling the virus, and don't have outbreaks very often - the Valtrex commercials not withstanding, both Famvir and Acyclovir also greatly reduce viral shedding and being primarily a top makes things easier because I control the sexual contact. (BTW, I don't play sexually with other men but am looking for a gf right now.)

So, did I want to kill her initially? Perhaps figuratively. Have I forgiven her? Well, I understood why she lied, and I knew that forgiveness was necessary for me being able to move on. Life is too short to stay stuck in hatred/vengeance mode... Yet, I still have no desire to see her, so it is clearly an ongoing process. Am I glad that I didn't kill her? Well, definitely! She certainly wasn't worth going to jail for, LOL...

Am I healing? Yes. I am getting back to myself. Sex will never be quite the same, but there is a particular type of intimacy and trust that occurs with such conversations, even though I would prefer to never have them. Also, honestly, I would never have found my way to formal BDSM without getting HSV (although that's a completely different story).

I understand the initial reactions people had to the question - they mirrored my own when I became infected. But I also feel that the stigma attached to Herpes (I think that in some senses it is the "new leprosy") is as much to blame for "L" lying to me as was her own denial and cowardice.

Just my 2¢
Your milage may vary...

Neon

Side note: both forms - HSV-1 and HSV-II are now considered STI's - take a look at the City Clinic website, a great source for all things STI-related.

 

[coy_one]

Thank you Neon for posting your story. It is refreshing to hear that you are able to move forward after being infected by someone who had their own issues about disclosure.

In my situation, This person not just denied it, but basically blamed my four year old son for giving it to me. My son has been tested and is clean.

I think that is the part that I find loathesome and can't forgive.

 

[neonflux]

Thank you Neon for posting your story. It is refreshing to hear that you are able to move forward after being infected by someone who had their own issues about disclosure.

In my situation, This person not just denied it, but basically blamed my four year old son for giving it to me. My son has been tested and is clean.

I think that is the part that I find loathesome and can't forgive.

Coy_one, that is truly despicable. I think that getting some sense of closure would have been impossible without at least a nominal admission from "L" that she had it and "could" have been responsible - she still maintained that I could have had it long before, even though I'd had a negative HSV antibody test a month before we had sex. To blame it on your son, however... I honestly can't imagine how I'd react any differently from they way you have.

You don't say how long you've had it. I know that it took a long, long time - and a BDSM cleansing AND starting an online support group for other queer women who had it - for me to begin to move towards closure. But I did, eventually, get there. I cannot imagine that you won't, as well. You are in my heart...

Neon

 

[RUbensBeautY]

How would you feel? Think you could ever forgive that person, even though they never disclosed it?

In the state of Maryland, if someone gives you a disease and doesn't disclose it, you can divorce that person.

I just want to know how others would feel, in this type of situation.

Depends on the type of disease. If we were talking an STD for example, say more serious than a yeast infection, then ...

I would probably turn vindictive.

If I cared about them deeply, I would probably be interested in finding out about their motives. Were they afraid, ignorant, dumb, uninformed, scared etc.? I would not consider either an excuse but I have this urge to try to understand the mindset of a person before ruining his reputation among family, friends, colleagues by day or grabbing the scalpel and cutting his jewels off in his sleep by night.

That said, and I should have probably brushed the anger aside and started with this thought: I am truly sorry if you have to go through such a situation due to someone else's fault coy one.

 

[FurryFury]

Well said DVS!

The thread title and opening sentences are:
"If someone knowingly passed on a disease to you....How would you feel? Think you could ever forgive that person, even though they never disclosed it?

There is no mention of any disease, serious or minor, curable or not. There is no mention if the thread starter has actually been the victim of such an act. That last line does lead one to assume the scenario to be more serious, and that the thread starter might have been a victim of such an act. But, many times threads are started just for the sake of discussion and the Cafe seems to be the ideal place for such discussions, because of its open and somewhat free atmosphere.

Originally, there was just the BDSM Talk forum. But, of the many different types of people that frequent this site and the BDSM area in general, some were more serious and structured and some were more recreational or laid back in their preferred method of posting. Eventually, those two types of posting clashed and after some debate, the Cafe was created.

The Cafe was created to be more open and available for those who don't like the confines of serious and more structured rules. It's possible to hijack a thread onto a different topic for a period of time, in the Cafe. It's not seen as a preferred method of action in threads with a topic such as this, but if the thread is created in the Cafe, anyone inclined to such action isn't condemned for it. And although we see it happen from time to time, it's considered just part of the way things are.

If a thread is started in the BDSM Talk forum, there might be a small amount of this going on, but that forum is meant to be kept for more serious questions and any altering or hijacking of the thread kept to a minimum. That is really only true in the BDSM Talk forum. If this thread had been started there, it might not get the same kind of reactionary posts. But personally, I think the Cafe gives someone a better cross section of answers. Sure, you sometimes have to deal with hijacks and such, but most people here are sensitive to the tone of threads.

I think this thread has taken the exact path it would normally take, given the template of the first post. Maybe if an actual disease had been mentioned or if an actual situation had been mentioned, it might have kept a more centered response. But, human nature being what it is, minds tend to wander and often the worst case scenario is soon mentioned. The word disease doesn't mean anything but something horrible and incurable and the so-called infection scenario was intentional and with malice and hate.

This may or may not have been what actually happened, but because the thread starter didn't mention any premise, I personally thought it was just another thought provoking thread.

In any event, personal retaliations and hatred should never interfere and open discussion should stay the topic of every post. Aside from the minor twists and turns that this thread has taken, I think it has been a very open and informative discussion...just like threads in the Cafe should be.

 

[FurryFury]

Neonflux!

It is so good to see you again! Thanks for coming back and telling your story here.

*HUG*

 

[FurryFury]

Thank you Neon for posting your story. It is refreshing to hear that you are able to move forward after being infected by someone who had their own issues about disclosure.

In my situation, This person not just denied it, but basically blamed my four year old son for giving it to me. My son has been tested and is clean.

I think that is the part that I find loathesome and can't forgive.

That is truly reprehensible.

*HUG*

 

[DVS]

I just feel that if you have something - especially anything that is incurable, that you need to disclose it. Not wait until the person gets it. Yes, I was stupid in going on blind faith with that person. So, I do take some blame there. I knew that I was 100% clean, but I didn't force that other person to get tested and I should have.

Because what has happened in my own experience is really raw anger. I feel deceived and even ashamed. My anger is explosive, but it is also because of the way that person shrugged off responsibility as well.

I hate that person because we were in a trusting relationship and they put my health in jeopardy.

I agree with you that you need to trust someone you are in a relationship with. It's sad that in most situations, we can't, because of different personalities and habits. And if someone you are in a relationship with does go out on you, it's not always possible for them to know everything about the person they go out on you with. Not giving them a pass for it, but the situation is sometimes a "one nighter" and people just don't exchange a lot of information in those situations.

Again, I'm not givng the cheating party any credit, because they did something they shouldn't have. But, in this age of STDs being passed around where some don't manifest for a while, and some don't always flare but are all still contagous, it's important to understand the possiblilites.

Then, when confronted with the cheating, because the disease shows up in the victimized partner, the cheater either knows he/she caught it and lies, or isn't even aware of the infection because of the way some STDs are. In either case, usually another series of lies are told until the relationship is degraded down to nothing but two people...one who can't be trusted and the other, who can no longer trust.

And, in the series of lies, hateful things are said on both sides, that just make matters worse. In some cases, it's not just the STD infection, but the series of lies that ultimately damages the relationship. Such as when your partner accused your son of being the cause. You don't say things like that to a mother. Those are fighting words, for sure.

We are responsible not only for our own protection, but for the protection of our partners, as well as the imediate famliy. I would feel anger, not only from the cheating, but depending on the STD and how they spread, because they didn't care enough to use sufficient protection. It's a difficult time, with a lot of emotions to absorb, let alone control, when the path of an STD infection is traced back to a cheating partner.

 

[SweetGigi]

Coy. You are in H's and my prayers. We love you. Let us know if you need anything, ok?

This is a topic that hits soooo very close to home for me. I have HSV 1 which I got from my mother when I was very very very little. Almost every one I knew as a kid had fever blisters and it was never a big deal to me or anyone else. When I was 18, I kissed my then boyfriend while I was shedding- PLEASE NOTE I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS SHEDDING- and gave him my virus. When I broke out later that week, and he later erupted in blisters, (in his mouth, up his nose, all over his lips) I felt awful! I had no idea that it could spread like that (fever blisters just were never talked about like that) and I felt like a leper. It was horrible- I felt like dying.

Skip forward 9 years. My then Gaurdian contracted my virus below the belt (I went down on him) while I was unknowingly shedding. (when I shed, I hardly ever break out- i just get 'the tingle') Again, I felt like dying. I thought I had always been so careful and took every precaution to make sure I never gave it to any one else. He foregave me, and he understands that it wasn't something I did intentionally. I would never do this to someone on purpose- ever.

I now know the virus in my body well enough and understand how it works within me. I know that when I shed, I don't always break out and that I have to be EXTREMELY careful with my loved ones INCLUDING my charges and their family. I had my first break out in three years just a few weeks ago and another come up last Sunday. I was completely and utterly petrified that I would not only give it to my charges but spread it to my other body parts as well. I'm still scared to death over it. H (Coy, you I can trust what he says, but still) tells me that I'm being overly paranoid and that I need to just relax, but its hard to do when for the first time in my life I am cognitively aware of the possiblity of me spreading this to him or my charges. I mean I'm even scared to death to change their diapers.

There is still a part of me that think, "oh, its 'just' fever blisters", but there is the other part of me that feels like a diseased ridden animal.... contagious and un-worthy of being with any one else ever again. The "I'd kill them" statements don't help me feel any better about it either. All my life I've lived with this; my mother gave this to me for cryin' out loud. 99% of everyone in my life already has it- its just never been a big deal to have fever blisters. Now... now I feel like crawling in a hole and dying.

 

[Homburg]

There is still a part of me that think, "oh, its 'just' fever blisters", but there is the other part of me that feels like a diseased ridden animal.... contagious and un-worthy of being with any one else ever again. The "I'd kill them" statements don't help me feel any better about it either. All my life I've lived with this; my mother gave this to me for cryin' out loud. 99% of everyone in my life already has it- its just never been a big deal to have fever blisters. Now... now I feel like crawling in a hole and dying.

I think the implied difference here is that you are doing everything you can to prevent transmission. You have warned your SO, and recognise the risks of dealing with the kids. You can't do anything more. At that point, you are being responsible.