If Barack Obama had all these problems, he'd been forced out by his OWN PARTY by now!

Le Jacquelope

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The Democrats would have given up by now if Obama had all these problems!

Damn!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081025/pl_politico/14929/print;_ylt=AhaeH_mVWDeyFRuqrpITt5HCw5R4

Palin allies report rising campaign tension
Ben Smith Ben Smith Sat Oct 25, 8:27 am ET

Even as John McCain and Sarah Palin scramble to close the gap in the final days of the 2008 election, stirrings of a Palin insurgency are complicating the campaign's already-tense internal dynamics.

Four Republicans close to Palin said she has decided increasingly to disregard the advice of the former Bush aides tasked to handle her, creating occasionally tense situations as she travels the country with them. Those Palin supporters, inside the campaign and out, said Palin blames her handlers for a botched rollout and a tarnished public image — even as others in McCain's camp blame the pick of the relatively inexperienced Alaska governor, and her public performance, for McCain's decline.

"She's lost confidence in most of the people on the plane," said a senior Republican who speaks to Palin, referring to her campaign jet. He said Palin had begun to "go rogue" in some of her public pronouncements and decisions.

"I think she'd like to go more rogue," he said.

The emergence of a Palin faction comes as Republicans gird for a battle over the future of their party: Some see her as a charismatic, hawkish conservative leader with the potential, still unrealized, to cross over to attract moderate voters. Anger among Republicans who see Palin as a star and as a potential future leader has boiled over because, they say, they see other senior McCain aides preparing to blame her in the event he is defeated.

"These people are going to try and shred her after the campaign to divert blame from themselves," a McCain insider said, referring to McCain's chief strategist, Steve Schmidt, and to Nicolle Wallace, a former Bush aide who has taken a lead role in Palin's campaign. Palin's partisans blame Wallace, in particular, for Palin's avoiding of the media for days and then giving a high-stakes interview to CBS News' Katie Couric, the sometimes painful content of which the campaign allowed to be parceled out over a week.

"A number of Gov. Palin's staff have not had her best interests at heart, and they have not had the campaign's best interests at heart," the McCain insider fumed, noting that Wallace left an executive job at CBS to join the campaign.

Wallace declined to engage publicly in the finger-pointing that has consumed the campaign in the final weeks.

"I am in awe of [Palin's] strength under constant fire by the media," she said in an e-mail. "If someone wants to throw me under the bus, my personal belief is that the most graceful thing to do is to lie there."

But other McCain aides, defending Wallace, dismissed the notion that Palin was mishandled. The Alaska governor was, they argue, simply unready — "green," sloppy and incomprehensibly willing to criticize McCain for, for instance, not attacking Sen. Barack Obama for his relationship with his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Palin has in fact performed fairly well in the moments thought to be key for a vice presidential nominee: She made a good impression in her surprise rollout in Ohio and her speech to the Republican National Convention went better than the campaign could have imagined. She turned in an adequate performance at a debate against the Democratic Party's foremost debater.

But other elements of her image-making went catastrophically awry. Her dodging of the press and her nervous reliance on tight scripts in her first interview, with ABC News, became a national joke — driven home to devastating effect by "Saturday Night Live" comic Tina Fey. The Couric interview — her only unstaged appearance for a week — was "water torture," as one internal ally put it.

Some McCain aides say they had little choice with a candidate who simply wasn't ready for the national stage, and that Palin didn't forcefully object. Moments that Palin's allies see as triumphs of instinct and authenticity — the Wright suggestion, her objection to the campaign's pulling out of Michigan — they dismiss as Palin's "slips and miscommunications," that is, her own incompetence and evidence of the need for tight scripting.

But Palin partisans say she chafed at the handling.

"The campaign as a whole bought completely into what the Washington media said — that she's completely inexperienced," said a close Palin ally outside the campaign who speaks regularly to the candidate.

"Her strategy was to be trustworthy and a team player during the convention and thereafter, but she felt completely mismanaged and mishandled and ill advised," the person said. "Recently, she's gone from relying on McCain advisers who were assigned to her to relying on her own instincts."

Palin's loyalists say she's grown particularly disenchanted with the veterans of the Bush reelection campaign, including Schmidt and Wallace, and that despite her anti-intellectual rhetoric, her closest ally among her new traveling aides is a policy adviser, former National Security Council official Steve Biegun. She's also said to be close with McCain's chief foreign policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann, who prepared her for the Oct. 2 vice presidential debate.

When a McCain aide, speaking anonymously Friday to The Atlantic's Marc Ambinder, suggested that Palin's charge that Obama was "palling around with terrorists" had "escaped HQ's vetting," it was Scheunemann who fired off an angry response that the speech was "fully vetted" and that to attack Palin for it was "bullshit."

Palin's "instincts," on display in recent days, have had her opening up to the media, including a round of interviews on talk radio, cable and broadcast outlets, as well as chats with her traveling press and local reporters.

Reporters really began to notice the change last Sunday, when Palin strolled over to a local television crew in Colorado Springs.

"Get Tracey," a staffer called out, according to The New York Times, summoning spokeswoman Tracey Schmitt, who reportedly "tried several times to cut it off with a terse 'Thank you!' in between questions, to no avail." The moment may have caused ulcers in some precincts of the McCain campaign, but it was an account Palin's admirers in Washington cheered.

Palin had also sought to give meatier policy speeches, in particular on energy policy and on policy for children with disabilities; she finally gave the latter speech Friday, but had wanted to deliver it much earlier.

She's also begun to make her own ad hoc calls about the campaign's direction and the ticket's policy. McCain, for instance, has remained silent on Democrats' calls for a stimulus package of new spending, a move many conservatives oppose but that could be broadly popular. But in an interview with the conservative radio host Glenn Beck earlier this week, Palin went "off the reservation" to make the campaign policy, one aide said.

"I say, you know, when is enough enough of taxpayer dollars being thrown into this bill out there?" she asked. "This next one of the Democrats being proposed should be very, very concerning to all Americans because to me it sends a message that $700 billion bailout, maybe that was just the tip of the iceberg. No, you know, we were told when we've got to be believing if we have enough elected officials who are going to be standing strong on fiscal conservative principles and free enterprise and we have to believe that there are enough of those elected officials to say, 'No, OK, that's enough.'"

(A McCain spokeswoman said Palin's statement was "a good sentiment.")

But few imagine that Palin will be able to repair her image — and bad poll numbers — in the eleven days before the campaign ends. And the final straw for Palin and her allies was the news that the campaign had reported spending $150,000 on her clothes, turning her, again, into the butt of late-night humor.

"She never even set foot in these stores," the senior Republican said, noting Palin hadn't realized the cost when the clothes were brought to her in her Minnesota hotel room.

"It's completely out-of-control operatives," said the close ally outside the campaign. "She has no responsibility for that. It's incredibly frustrating for us and for her."

Between Palin's internal detractors and her allies, there's a middle ground: Some aides say that she's a flawed candidate whose handling exaggerated her weak spots.

"She was completely mishandled in the beginning. No one took the time to look at what her personal strengths and weaknesses are and developed a plan that made sense based on who she is as a candidate," the aide said. "Any concerns she or those close to her have about that are totally valid."

But the aide said that Palin's inexperience led her to her own mistakes:

"How she was handled allowed her weaknesses to hang out in full display."

If McCain loses, Palin's allies say that the national Republican Party hasn't seen the last of her. Politicians are sometimes formed by a signal defeat — as Bill Clinton was when he was tossed out of the Arkansas governor's mansion after his first term — and Palin would return to a state that had made her America's most popular governor and where her image as a reformer who swept aside her own party's insiders rings true, if not in the cartoon version the McCain campaign presented.

"There are people in this campaign who feel a real sense of loyalty to her and are really pleased with her performance and think she did a great job," said the McCain insider. "She has a real future in this party."
 
Palin's handlers should be executed for incompetence.

The problem is, some sections of the GOP actually want to lose - it's like they've got this sick, self indulgent 'Gotterdamerung' thing going on.

The only upside is, they'll get lynched after the election and Sarah can start building a whole new party for 2012.

Apart from anything else, I think they should get rid of that elephant and use a hard hat for a symbol instead - one way or another, Joe Sixpack IS the way back to power.
 
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which ever party loses, you will see it split. Once one splits, the other will follow. It will be good to have more than a 2 party system.
 
I think a Republican party split is inevitable at this point. There are just too many Republicans coming out for Obama to think that there's ever going to be any unity within that party again.
 
I don't think the split will last, though.

There'll be a more or less acrimonius civil war, and the strongest faction will seize control.
 
Nobody gives a shit but Lit libs.

Say-rah is less than two weeks away from sending Tina Fey back to filming American Express commercials.
 
Nobody gives a shit but Lit libs.

Say-rah is less than two weeks away from sending Tina Fey back to filming American Express commercials.

That's true, there probably won't be much call for Fey to impersonate an ex-vice presidential candidate after she goes back to Alaska, with any luck to be impeached.

Nobody gives a shit but Liberals, and all of the republicans that have defected to support Obama..
 
There'll be a more or less acrimonius civil war, and the strongest faction will seize control.

Which will leave the other faction where? The nut job religious folks won't vote for Giuliani and the centrists aren't going to vote for Sarah Palin.

So there's probably going to be a viable third option in 2012, which will almost certainly lead to a second term for Obama.
 
Nobody gives a shit but Lit libs.

Say-rah is less than two weeks away from sending Tina Fey back to filming American Express commercials.

Yeah, her career has really been in the toilet prior to the Palin announcement.
 
The demos must be mentally exhausted since they have to constantly cover up all of obamas wrong doings..Lt you might be on to something..

Maybe we will all be better off voting for McCain

All those demos need some time off..
 
Which will leave the other faction where? The nut job religious folks won't vote for Giuliani and the centrists aren't going to vote for Sarah Palin.

So there's probably going to be a viable third option in 2012, which will almost certainly lead to a second term for Obama.

No.

The civil war will lead to the losing faction doing exactly what Hillary's supporters have done, which is to bow their knees and kiss the ring of the new king (or Queen)

And why not ? In two party 'democracies', virtually all of the differences between mainstream politicians are so small as to be meaningless.

For example, which party will socialise healthcare ?

Which party will ban abortion ?

Neither will.

There are no real differences between the parties, let alone within them. All there is is a pantomime of false differences designed to give the mob an illusion of choice.

Which is why it makes sense to cut through the bullshit and vote for the hottest candidate.
 
No.

The civil war will lead to the losing faction doing exactly what Hillary's supporters have done, which is to bow their knees and kiss the ring of the new king (or Queen)

If that was going to happen, it would happen this election and McCain wouldn't be in so much trouble. But there has been too much of a departure from the traditional values of the Republican party for that group to hold.
 
Much as I'm puzzled with Borscht's shift to the right as of late, I have to agree with him about the kissing the ring part.

H Ross Perot's Reform Party, anyone? Where are they now? And there are more Looneytarians online than are voting this year. Barr's got 1% of the vote so far; there's more than 1% of people who are his followers. The fact is, they're all going to kiss the ring of the alpha male-faction who triumphs in a real split.
 
If that was going to happen, it would happen this election and McCain wouldn't be in so much trouble. But there has been too much of a departure from the traditional values of the Republican party for that group to hold.

McCain is weak because he is reasonable. People don't want to follow reasonable men. They want to follow charismatic leaders who don't blink.

Take, for example, Obama and Bush.

Neither of these guys have much of a clue about the real world, but that don't matter because what they have got is a self-confidence which is as unshakeable as it is unjustified.

As soon as the Reps find another one of these, hopefully in the form of Sarah Palin, they can start to rebuild.
 
McCain is weak because he is reasonable. People don't want to follow reasonable men. They want to follow charismatic leaders who don't blink.
Reasonable? He didn't look all reasonable when he voted for Bush 90% of the time and then said he's running against Bush. Or when he went after Bill Ayers who is working for a Republican-run foundation. Or when he tried to play white knight during the initial bailout talks and his own party said he epic failed.

John McCain doesn't look reasonable to all the Republicans who complain about his temper, which apparently out-crazies even the likes of Ulaven Demorte or worse yet, Ishmael.

Where, exactly, do you think McCain is reasonable?
 
Much as I'm puzzled with Borscht's shift to the right as of late, I have to agree with him about the kissing the ring part.

H Ross Perot's Reform Party, anyone? Where are they now? And there are more Looneytarians online than are voting this year. Barr's got 1% of the vote so far; there's more than 1% of people who are his followers. The fact is, they're all going to kiss the ring of the alpha male-faction who triumphs in a real split.

The problem with that analogy is that it marginalizes the specific damage that's been caused by GWB to the Republican Party. All of the terrible foreign policy, the ridiculous spending, the cronyism and so on is driving people away.
 
The problem with that analogy is that it marginalizes the specific damage that's been caused by GWB to the Republican Party. All of the terrible foreign policy, the ridiculous spending, the cronyism and so on is driving people away.
Still, they'll vote Republican.

Look at all the people who are still McCain fans after all his epic failures as of late?

The other thing is, though, that many Conservatives just won't vote at all.
 
McCain is weak because he is reasonable. People don't want to follow reasonable men. They want to follow charismatic leaders who don't blink.

Take, for example, Obama and Bush.

Neither of these guys have much of a clue about the real world, but that don't matter because what they have got is a self-confidence which is as unshakeable as it is unjustified.

As soon as the Reps find another one of these, hopefully in the form of Sarah Palin, they can start to rebuild.

One of the main problems with your joke is that I think for it to be truly effective, you'd need to have a better understanding of American politics.
 
Still, they'll vote Republican.

Look at all the people who are still McCain fans after all his epic failures as of late?

The other thing is, though, that many Conservatives just won't vote at all.

But look at all of the conservatives who've come out in favour of Obama. It's an impressive list of important figures.
 
No.

The civil war will lead to the losing faction doing exactly what Hillary's supporters have done, which is to bow their knees and kiss the ring of the new king (or Queen)

There's a key difference. Clinton and Obama supporters actually supported the same policies and ideas. There were minor policy differences between the two - not the massive gap between the fiscal conservatives and the evangelical conservatives.

And why not ? In two party 'democracies', virtually all of the differences between mainstream politicians are so small as to be meaningless.

There's a problem here. The more "intellectual conservatives" value science a great deal. The evangelical conservatives of Palin's ilk - not all evangelical conservatives agree - are far from friends of science.

The "intellectual conservatives" have more of a "realist" foreign policy, whereas the Palin conservatives tend to be more neocons - not because Palin supports these ideas but because she is a blank slate they can mold.

The "intellectual conservatives" follow Reaganism in terms of economic policy. The evangelican conservatives like Huckabee and Palin are far different on economic policy.

There are great differences in the GOP right now that are at issue. You have your Romneys/Giulianis on one end and the Huckabees/Palins on the other.
 
Joe Sixpack

Apart from anything else, I think they should get rid of that elephant and use a hard hat for a symbol instead - one way or another, Joe Sixpack IS the way back to power.

Joe Sixpack is worse off now than he was eight years ago. In 2000 he was better off than he was in 1992. Ever since the election of 1968 the Republicans have learned how to exploit the fear Joe has of those who look and sound different from him, and Joe's resentment of those who are superior to him. They have not learned how to improve his standard of living. Instead, Republican politicians propagate the lie that if Joe works real hard he will become rich like the people they really care about.
 
As soon as the Reps find another one of these, hopefully in the form of Sarah Palin, they can start to rebuild.

Palin is too stupid and ignorant even for the Republicans. :rolleyes:

After this election she will be a national laughing stock. :D
 
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