I want to post a thread here
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Mischka
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I don't know that they do. I believe statistically there are more gay men than gay women, so perhaps there is more visible evidence of discrimination against gay men? Or perhaps discrimination against gay women gets lumped in with "plain" discrimination against all women?
Netzach
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I don't think it's less. I think it's different.
I think that men provoke a more violent reaction, there's more anxiety from other men.
I don't think lesbianism threatens the "status quo" the same way, bear in mind I'm trying to adopt a homophobic viewpoint for analysis and probably oversimplifying.
However, I think that lesbians are more marginalized financially as a whole, more discriminated against via the double whammy (queer and female or even queer, female and a woman of color!) Queer women are less able to point to a single source of discrimination.
I think that men provoke a more violent reaction, there's more anxiety from other men.
I don't think lesbianism threatens the "status quo" the same way, bear in mind I'm trying to adopt a homophobic viewpoint for analysis and probably oversimplifying.
However, I think that lesbians are more marginalized financially as a whole, more discriminated against via the double whammy (queer and female or even queer, female and a woman of color!) Queer women are less able to point to a single source of discrimination.
Queersetti
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Netzach said:
I think you are right. The discrimination against lesbians is more subtle, but it exists just the same.
Gay male sexuality is treated by society as an imminent threat. Gay female sexuality is treated as if it's either insignificant, or exists for the prurience of straight men.
killallhippies
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Andreina said:
you mean they don't !? suddenly i feel less sexy.
Etoile
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ammre sort of voiced my thoughts, but not quite the way I'd have said it.
Straight men often think two women together (as long as they're both femme) is sexy. Two men together, though, is often seen as repulsive.
It's the genderbending gays who really get hurt, though. Effeminate men and masculine women are a lot more likely to be the victims of insult and assault than those who conform to what their gender is "supposed" to look like.
Straight men often think two women together (as long as they're both femme) is sexy. Two men together, though, is often seen as repulsive.
It's the genderbending gays who really get hurt, though. Effeminate men and masculine women are a lot more likely to be the victims of insult and assault than those who conform to what their gender is "supposed" to look like.
LustiRusti
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Sandia said:
*Thinking of shows like The Man Show, Jerry Springer and Howard Stern and cringing.*
In my opinion there will always be a double standard between gay/bi men and gay/bi women. Shows like the ones I've mentioned above are "geared" towards men and they "love" lesbians. Why? I don't really know. Ya'd think straight men wouldn't like lesbians since they would be "competition". lol But also, men on (and who watch) those kinds of shows "only love the lipstick lesbians". It's still a sexual turn on for them.
As for gay/bi men, most (notice, I did not say "all" so don't jump me!) straight men feel threatened by them. At least, the straight men who are not secure in their own sexuality are.
Well, that's just my two cents. Take it how you want.
~Rusti
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I think lesbians are probably treated just the same as gay men. As Q said though, it is a little more subtle. But it is there just the same.
Think about it though. Most non-straight women seen together by straight people are bi chicks in porn movies, etc.. Look at the stories here at Lit involving non-straight women. A tremendous number of them involve bisexuals (wives or girlfriends), and not lesbians.
I know men that would easily say something derogatory to a lesbian, but think bi chicks are cool because they think they can still score with them (and maybe score with her girlfriend too). That's been my experience anyways.
Think about it though. Most non-straight women seen together by straight people are bi chicks in porn movies, etc.. Look at the stories here at Lit involving non-straight women. A tremendous number of them involve bisexuals (wives or girlfriends), and not lesbians.
I know men that would easily say something derogatory to a lesbian, but think bi chicks are cool because they think they can still score with them (and maybe score with her girlfriend too). That's been my experience anyways.
Sandia
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I think if you look at the language, popular culture, and even the social climate on lit, you can't escape the conclusion that gay men are treated differently - and with far more hostility - than gay women.
For example, the Ellen DeGeneris (sp) kiss was treated as a big deal in the media, but to this day we still haven't seen two men kiss in primetime tv.
Gay bashers attack gay men. Or at least the attacks I've heard about - like the one in Colorado - have been against them - not against lesbians.
When flame begin to lick on lit, a common tactic (if it's a man) is to say or imply he likes men, or is secretly into gay sex. I've never seen a woman attacked this way yet. In fact, many women like to be seen flirting with other women.
I don't think I've seen a man flirting with another man on lit. Unless it was part of a flame or attack of some sort.
For example, the Ellen DeGeneris (sp) kiss was treated as a big deal in the media, but to this day we still haven't seen two men kiss in primetime tv.
Gay bashers attack gay men. Or at least the attacks I've heard about - like the one in Colorado - have been against them - not against lesbians.
When flame begin to lick on lit, a common tactic (if it's a man) is to say or imply he likes men, or is secretly into gay sex. I've never seen a woman attacked this way yet. In fact, many women like to be seen flirting with other women.
I don't think I've seen a man flirting with another man on lit. Unless it was part of a flame or attack of some sort.
Queersetti
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Sandia said:
There are other forms of discrimination besides name calling, that may not be apparent to anyone but the person who suffers it.
For example, there are some straights on the GB who never respond to my posts, even when I address them directly on a sexually neutral issue like music or movies.
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Sandia said:
Gay/bisexual men seem to be involved in more of the high profile attacks than lesbian/bisexual women. But beyond that, the playing field is close to level. Discrimination can occur in many ways, and can be quite subtle yet very harmful. The most hurtful comes from people you thought were your "friends".
As far as Lit is concerned, this is a porn site and watching women flirting with other women turns on most men (and many women). But if you saw it in a restaurant or bar, I bet many of those same peoples' reactions would be very different. What a man/woman couple can do in many places would cause problems if it was a man/man or woman/woman.
PinkOrchid
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killallhippies
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Gil_Favor said:
she doesn't have to. the word "seem" implies that it's a personnal observation based upon her experience.
killallhippies
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MzChrista said:
word.
killallhippies
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MzChrista said:
umm, yes. word is just a nice quick way to say i agree or exactly. i've said it since high school for no good reason. don't hit me.
killallhippies
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MzChrista said:
as long you don't hit me. i'm fragile. i break easily.
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