I Value Your Opinion

[champagne1982]

So, I didn't win any CBC Literary awards for my poetry, but I think a few of my poems are damned good erotica. I'd like to tweak them for submission.

If you don't mind giving me a bit of your time and offering some criticism on these, please post your thoughts here. I'll put up a new poem every few days.

Thanks in advance.

 

[champagne1982]

Man-scape (in satin sheets)

Awash in celestial moonshine-
silvered curls glint in shadows
fallen against the canyons
formed, when sheets fold
and pillows subside beneath
smooth foothills and angled
escarpments, which rise
along the spine of strength;
sculpted, beneath your skin.

Forest-scented musk drifts
along the sweeping plain
and floats across a breast
rippling with my sigh,
towards the simple touch
of my hands and lips pressed
to the garden, hidden behind
ivory walls and beneath
the sky of satin sheets drawn
up, over the landscape of you.

 

[clutching_calliope]

.....

 

[champagne1982]

Hi Carrie,

Just a quick first impression that has nothing really to do with the content of your piece. Personally, I probably wouldn't hyphenate the title. I think people will 'get it', both without the hyphen and without the parenthesis of explanation.

Another quick impression: your poem refers to a landscape but the visual look of this piece is two blocks, square, square. I mean, I know we're both prairie girls and mostly everything is flat out west, but most people think that type of landscape is dull (do you remember those Special K commercials?). I was hoping a sensual poem about visuals might be visually stimulating as well...?

I'm sorry you didn't win. Stupid CBC anyway. What do they know?

The title is easy enough to change. When I first had these assembled into the series they were lined up like paintings in a gallery. Sometimes the art is grouped into either subject or the medium of presentation. (in satin sheets) would be like (in pencil). Now that I think about it, your observation makes me feel the parenthetical phrase is almost unsophisticated and unneccessarily leading. Thankyou!

Regarding the shape. I can see where different line breaks could add a variety to the appearance of the poem, maybe I'll be able to adjust my line length to reflect the mountain ridge, descending to the prairie.

Good thoughts.

re: CBC judges... pfffft, you'd think they'd have taste.

 

[champagne1982]

<ahem> ??? </ahem>

 

[wildsweetone]

this is likely going to sound a little lame but how about taking out the comma here:

formed, when sheets fold

for some reason the stanza felt 'wordy' and i'm wondering if you take the comma out then it might flow a little smoother.

do you need 'up' in the last line?

 

[champagne1982]

this is likely going to sound a little lame but how about taking out the comma here:

formed, when sheets fold

for some reason the stanza felt 'wordy' and i'm wondering if you take the comma out then it might flow a little smoother.

do you need 'up' in the last line?

Thanks for your ideas. I've been reading through this poem aloud and can see a couple of extraneous words that I could get rid of. Hopefully, I can pare this one down and still keep that sleepy feeling of lying down beside a lover.

Keep those thoughts coming, please.

 

[champagne1982]

Self-Portrait (in blue)

I can't see my back,
but imagine, slow swoop
of spine below a curl,
ridge of shoulder gliding
beneath my skin,
a mole, detracting
from the monochrome sepia
as it dances with a muscle
as it flexes and I embrace
the pillow.

Turn the lights off,
wash my thighs with midnight
blue; glamour the rest
with stardust glitter
descended from its capture
in the leafless twigs
of spring. The budding tips
swollen, showing black
against a blue moon, full
and shining moment caught,
ecstatic.

 

[TheRainMan]

Self-Portrait (in blue)

I can't see my back,
but imagine, slow swoop
of spine below a curl,
ridge of shoulder gliding
beneath my skin,
a mole, detracting
from the monochrome sepia
as it dances with a muscle
as it flexes and I embrace
the pillow.

Turn the lights off,
wash my thighs with midnight
blue; glamour the rest
with stardust glitter
descended from its capture
in the leafless twigs
of spring. The budding tips
swollen, showing black
against a blue moon, full
and shining moment caught,
ecstatic.

i think this is stronger than the first, Carrie (and i agree with Calli about both the removal of the hyphen in the title and especially about the "boxy" appearance of that first poem).

i think this can be improved by trimming it and altering the pace to make it starker, more sudden.


sorta like:

I can't see my back, but imagine—
slow swoop of spine
below a curl, ridge of shoulder.
a mole, dancing as muscles flex.

Turn the lights off,
wash my thighs with midnight

blue, the rest with stardust
captured from the leafless twigs

of spring. My budding tips
swollen, black

against the moon. Full.

 

[FifthFlower]

Self-Portrait (in blue)

I can't see my back,
but imagine, slow swoop
of spine below a curl,
ridge of shoulder gliding
beneath my skin,
a mole, detracting
from the monochrome sepia
as it dances with a muscle
as it flexes and I embrace
the pillow.

Turn the lights off,
wash my thighs with midnight
blue; glamour the rest
with stardust glitter
descended from its capture
in the leafless twigs
of spring. The budding tips
swollen, showing black
against a blue moon, full
and shining moment caught,
ecstatic.

Taking a tip from TheRainMan, I've rewritten this slightly so it sounds pleasing to me. I hope you don't mind. I'm as much trying to understand how to write something like this as to offer a critique. I'm not sure why only the thighs should get the midnight blue. So I put "back" instead of "thighs". The rest is just iambic meter.

I cannot see my back, but I imagine swoop of spine below a curl, a ridge of shoulder, moles detracting from the monochrome that dance with muscles as they flex while I embrace the pillow.

Turn off the lights and wash my back with midnight blue. Put stardust glitter over all descending through the leafless twigs of spring whose budding tips are swollen, black against the moon, and shining, full, and caught, ecstatic.

 

[champagne1982]

i think this is stronger than the first, Carrie (and i agree with Calli about both the removal of the hyphen in the title and especially about the "boxy" appearance of that first poem).

i think this can be improved by trimming it and altering the pace to make it starker, more sudden.


sorta like:

I can't see my back, but imagine—
slow swoop of spine
below a curl, ridge of shoulder.
a mole, dancing as muscles flex.

Turn the lights off,
wash my thighs with midnight

blue, the rest with stardust
captured from the leafless twigs

of spring. My budding tips
swollen, black

against the moon. Full.

I admit that you all have caught me in the midst of diddling my fetish. I love words, I am obsessed.

When we pare our descriptions to the stark essentials, the details are left to the reader to imagine on their own. Instead of that route, is it permissible to include adjectives and verbiage that direct their thoughts to the conclusion you find most desirable as the creator?

As you know, I'm not a fan of haiku, I think it's a method for the terse to say they're being clever in most cases. I'm sure there are masters of the form but I can't appreciate the apprentices' efforts at all. (ETA: Oh my! I didn't mean to imply that I didn't appreciate what you were trying to impart into my poem! Good grief, I should think before I post.)

That said, I understand that redundacy and repetition should be worried out of a poem unless they're neccessary to the formula and I'll attempt to ferret them out of my writing.

In all seriousness though and without meaning to sound snotty, can someone read a poem with description and appreciate the map that the poet's drawn or should the writer try merely to give the directions without embellishment?

Thanks so much for your attention to this thread, Mr C. You have offered me a wonderful gift.

 

[champagne1982]

Taking a tip from TheRainMan, I've rewritten this slightly so it sounds pleasing to me. I hope you don't mind. I'm as much trying to understand how to write something like this as to offer a critique. I'm not sure why only the thighs should get the midnight blue. So I put "back" instead of "thighs". The rest is just iambic meter.

I cannot see my back, but I imagine swoop of spine below a curl, a ridge of shoulder, moles detracting from the monochrome that dance with muscles as they flex while I embrace the pillow.

Turn off the lights and wash my back with midnight blue. Put stardust glitter over all descending through the leafless twigs of spring whose budding tips are swollen, black against the moon, and shining, full, and caught, ecstatic.

First, FifthFlower, thank you for taking the time to spend improving my poem. That's the beauty of these feedback and critiquing threads. I think they help us all and everyone has important ideas to input into the discussion.

I like what you've done with this and I see your point about meter, usually when I write free verse, I work a taste of the iambic in but I don't, generally keep the entire poem true to it. I like a skip and bump in the road to keep from lulling my reader to sleep.

You've added a lot of me into the poem through using "I" more frequently than I << (hehehe) do. My intent here was to paint an image for the reader and only the thighs are in midnight blue because the thighs are shadowed the rest is in light through a window and a little warmer in the different light.

I'm glad you added your vision here and I'll keep your suggestions in mind when I look at this for the rewrite. There's so much to digest so I like to leave a bit of time for absorbtion.

Welcome to the tough world of offering constructive critique, it's not an easy place to live but it's oh, so rewarding to make a place in it. Once again, thanks for your ideas.

 

[MyNecroticSnail]

Hi Carrie,

Just a quick first impression that has nothing really to do with the content of your piece. Personally, I probably wouldn't hyphenate the title. I think people will 'get it', both without the hyphen and without the parenthesis of explanation.

Another quick impression: your poem refers to a landscape but the visual look of this piece is two blocks, square, square. I mean, I know we're both prairie girls and mostly everything is flat out west, but most people think that type of landscape is dull (do you remember those Special K commercials?). I was hoping a sensual poem about visuals might be visually stimulating as well...?

I'm sorry you didn't win. Stupid CBC anyway. What do they know?

Sorry champagne1982, for responding to clutching_calliope; this is an intersting observation. About the use of shape and white space.
Devil's advocate - title mentions sheets.

 

[TheRainMan]

. . .

When we pare our descriptions to the stark essentials, the details are left to the reader to imagine on their own. Instead of that route, is it permissible to include adjectives and verbiage that direct their thoughts to the conclusion you find most desirable as the creator?

anything is permissible, i think. and the ultimate decision as to what words appear is made by the writer and no one else.

i think all poets try to direct a reader's thoughts to the conclusion they, the writer, finds most desirable, even if that desired conclusion is to leave ambiguity and doubt . . .

. . . the question is what is the best way to get there . . . how many words, and which words, does it take?

IMO, adjectives must be used sparingly or quality suffers. one almost surefire way i use to recognize a novice poet (which you are not, by any means) is to simply count up the nouns and see how many of them have modifiers. even that doesn't work all the time . . . nothing works all the time . . . but it works most of the time.

and excess of any kind, words that do not move the poem forward but make it into a sort of verbal treadmill, should be removed when editing, i think. that is one of the things i tried to do in my quick edit of your poem.

As you know, I'm not a fan of haiku,

neither am i.

I think it's a method for the terse to say they're being clever in most cases. I'm sure there are masters of the form but I can't appreciate the apprentices' efforts at all. (ETA: Oh my! I didn't mean to imply that I didn't appreciate what you were trying to impart into my poem! Good grief, I should think before I post.)

That said, I understand that redundacy and repetition should be worried out of a poem unless they're neccessary to the formula and I'll attempt to ferret them out of my writing.

it's hard to argue that redundancy has any value.

but repetition is another matter. they are not the same thing. one only need to delve into the poetry of annaswirls or jd4george to find many examples of repetition used effectively. those two writers really understand how to use it as a powerful tool.

In all seriousness though and without meaning to sound snotty, can someone read a poem with description and appreciate the map that the poet's drawn or should the writer try merely to give the directions without embellishment?

you never sound snotty, Miss Canada.

yes, i think lengthy and complex description can make for a fine poem, just as starkness can.

it's all a question of how it's done.

and there is so much to that, including the particular tastes of a reader, of course.

Thanks so much for your attention to this thread, Mr C. You have offered me a wonderful gift.

you're welcome.

you are a talent, Carrie.

for sure.

 

[champagne1982]

and excess of any kind, words that do not move the poem forward but make it into a sort of verbal treadmill, should be removed when editing, i think. that is one of the things i tried to do in my quick edit of your poem. <snip>

This is so true and I'm glad you mentioned it. I've never been a person to edit too heavily. Blame it on short attention spans instigated by teachers who taught in 12 minute bursts with 2 minute ad breaks.

<snip> one only need to delve into the poetry of annaswirls or jd4george to find many examples of repetition used effectively. those two writers really understand how to use it as a powerful tool.

I'll bet you aren't aware that I pointed jd4 toward this forum after reading his stuff on a different board. I have always been amazed by his poetry.

you never sound snotty, Miss Canada.

And you're too kind... (I often need to borrow a hankie).

yes, i think lengthy and complex description can make for a fine poem, just as starkness can.

it's all a question of how it's done.

and there is so much to that, including the particular tastes of a reader, of course.

You've given me a lot to ponder, not only about my poems, but about the craft of writing them in general. I'll try to keep the razor handy when I weigh the value of my phrasing during the edits. Thanks again.

 

[TheRainMan]

I'll bet you aren't aware that I pointed jd4 toward this forum after reading his stuff on a different board. I have always been amazed by his poetry.

no, i didn't.

and where the hell is he? do you know?

wherever he is, i wish him well. he's top-shelf, as a writer and as a man.

 

[champagne1982]

I'm not sure if you'll be able to get him on the email from his member page.

jd4george

He had found some happiness with a lady, last I heard. So maybe he's settled into a lovely routine of poetry for her and kisses for him.

 

[clutching_calliope]

.....

 

[champagne1982]

Here's a revisited painting of a manscape.

Manscape

Awash in celestial moonshine-

……………….silvered curls glint
in shadows
f
.a
…l
…..l
……e
……..n
………..into canyons

sheets fold; pillows subside

…….......….below smooth
.....foothills and angled
……..….....…escarpments

…….spine of strength;
….sculpted,
beneath your skin.

Forest musk drifts
...............across a breast
rippling, sweeping plain;

simple touch

hands; lips pressed
…….…hidden beneath the sky
satin sheets drawn……over

……..the landscape of you.​

 

[champagne1982]

So, maybe I pared down my poem so far that all that's left are peelings and no one wants to venture in.

help a girl out, won't ya?

 

[champagne1982]

Self-Portrait (as he sees me)

I always look ready for bed
my eyes, dilated reflectors
of candlelight, are halfway
shrouded by lids, heavy
with sable lashes.

My hair, set free from pins
and ties, floats in deep
tannin pools around high
cheeks and scalloped ears.

His finger, beneath
the shallow dimple
at the centre of my chin,
lifts my face to better
see the flare of narrow
nostrils as I breathe
his potent fragrance.

Two tiny teeth capture
one corner of a mulberry
lip, sliding silky
fullness between to fall
free and land in pouted
temptation exactly
where my mouth should be.

His kiss whispers perfection
as reflected light gleams
so brightly that my eyes
close in reply.

 

[Guest]

Heyya Carrie. The above poem is hot. This first line, "I always look ready for bed" -- makes me want to drop my pants--it's that smokin! I think it's one of the poems that I thought was most well written on Literotica (until you deleted them all )

Since you're asking for opinions...

I wonder about the title of this poem, "Self-Protrait (as sees me)", in that it's told in first person, but it's how he sees you. Has he said these lines to you, or are you taking the omniscient point of view? I think if you have the title as he sees you, that POV is off and may read as if you're looking in a mirror and telling him what he sees.

 

[champagne1982]

Heyya Carrie. The above poem is hot. This first line, "I always look ready for bed" -- makes me want to drop my pants--it's that smokin! I think it's one of the poems that I thought was most well written on Literotica (until you deleted them all )

Since you're asking for opinions...

I wonder about the title of this poem, "Self-Protrait (as sees me)", in that it's told in first person, but it's how he sees you. Has he said these lines to you, or are you taking the omniscient point of view? I think if you have the title as he sees you, that POV is off and may read as if you're looking in a mirror and telling him what he sees.

Thank you so much for your thoughts, Jamison. I guess the idea that his eyes are the mirrors I'm looking into, at my reflection, isn't clear. That's why (as he sees me) is part of the title, for this is what I see him seeing. Any thoughts on how I could present that idea better?

 

[champagne1982]

Self Portrait #1

I can't see my back but imagine-
swoop of spine beneath a curl,
ridge of shoulder. A mole dances
with a muscle when I flex
to embrace the pillow. Turn
the lights off. Wash my thighs
in midnight and glamour the rest
with stardust captured in leafless
twigs swollen black against the moon.

 

[Tzara]

Self Portrait #1

I can't see my back but imagine-
swoop of spine beneath a curl,
ridge of shoulder. A mole dances
with a muscle when I flex
to embrace the pillow. Turn
the lights off. Wash my thighs
in midnight and glamour the rest
with stardust captured in leafless
twigs swollen black against the moon.

Hey, Champie!

That "Wash my thighs / in midnight" is, like, killer. Makes me want to stay up late.