I see Bush and his cronies are still fucking up.

p_p_man

The 'Euro' European
Joined
Feb 18, 2001
Posts
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It's a pity he can't claim America's success in the World cup as a pre-arranged policy move by his Administration to take the heat off his badly conducted leadership...


Cracks show in Bush's White House

The president's men are at odds with themselves

Julian Borger
Saturday June 15, 2002
The Guardian


"Something has gone awry in George Bush's White House. The administration's once impermeable self-confidence is beginning to show cracks. A string of blunders has revealed that it is increasingly unsure of itself.
Donald Rumsfeld, the defence secretary, who has epitomised the administration's sense of infallibility, embarrassed himself on a visit to South Asia with speculation about al-Qaida's role in Kashmir which he was quickly forced to retract.

Back home the White House acidly disowned the views of two senior cabinet members - the attorney general, John Ashcroft and the secretary of state, Colin Powell.

The issues at stake could not have been more serious. Mr Rumsfeld was speaking from the hip at the flashpoint of a potential nuclear confrontation. For his part, Mr Ashcroft claimed to have foiled a plot to detonate a "dirty bomb", possibly in central Washington.

As Americans contemplated the prospect of a radioactive cloud drifting over their capital and sent off for anti-radiation pills, the White House press secretary, Ari Fleischer, insisted that the country's top law-enforcement official had over-reached and "lurched to the worst-case scenario".

For good measure, administration officials told journalists that the White House was furious with Mr Ashcroft for overdoing it. It left him looking opportunistic, ready to risk panicking the population to make the arrest of the suspect Abdullah al-Muhajir look more of a coup. And the administration just seemed confused in the face of the terrorist menace.

Then on Wednesday it was the secretary of state's turn to be slapped down. Colin Powell had told the Arabic newspaper al-Hayat that the president would back the rapid establishment of a provisional Palestinian state.

Mr Bush had said almost as much himself, and White House officials confirmed yesterday that a declaration along those lines was expected next week. But Mr Fleischer went out of his way to belittle Mr Powell's observations, pointing out drily that the secretary of state had the "prerogative" to say what he liked.

Sapped authority


It was the latest of a string of discordant notes from the White House and the state department on Middle East policy which have sapped Mr Powell's authority. European diplomats who have looked to him as a bastion of US multilateralism now question whether he speaks for the administration.

One diplomat in Washington said: "You get the feeling, more and more, that the real gap is not between us and Powell, but between Powell and the rest of this administration. There is more of a suggestion of incoherence now."

Mr Bush can still claim a 70% approval rating, but amid the patriotism there are signs that the administration could be losing its touch at home.

The inability of the president's counter-terrorist adviser, Tom Ridge, to restructure the country's civil defences forced the White House to do what it had initially refused to do: create a new government department for homeland security.

Leaks are the norm for most administrations, but they are new in a team which has prided itself on loyalty and unity of purpose. It is the team which forced through a massive tax cut, the centrepiece of its domestic agenda, oversaw the rapid military victory over the Taliban, and achieved a striking diplomatic triumph by securing Russian acquiescence in its plan to build a missile defence system.

"By the standards of American presidential administrations [they] have been pretty together. They show devotion to their leader to a degree that is almost shocking," Stephen Hess, a political analyst at the Brookings Institution, said.

But after 18 months in office, two telling policy failures have knocked the administration off balance. Furthermore, the ideological sense of mission which propelled it through its first year is now proving a handicap, making it harder to cope with a set of complex problems.

The military campaign in Afghanistan drove out the Taliban much faster than the Pentagon's critics had predicted, but it failed to achieve the primary war aim of eliminating al-Qaida. Only one of the organisation's leaders has been confirmed killed, and one captured. Osama bin Laden and scores of his lieutenants are believed to be still at large and it is the US, not al-Qaida, that is on the defensive.

The alerts raised by the justice department have ranged from the bizarre (a warning about terrorist scuba divers) to the plain terrifying, (the "dirty bomb" scare). The administration increasingly seems to be fuelling rather than managing a climate of fear, and opinion polls suggest that more and more Americans believe the timing of its announcements is determined as much by politics as by security concerns.

The second big policy failure is in the Middle East, where again a military-led policy has fallen far short of achieving US goals. Until now President Bush has let the administration hawks set the pace in US policy. Israel was given a free hand in the occupied territories in the hope that the elimination of Palestinian radicals would make Yasser Arafat more compliant about peace terms.

Instead, the conflict has worsened so much that it has derailed the administration hawks' main strategy in the "war on terror" - the ousting of Saddam Hussein.

The policy dilemma has opened a rift in the administration that is clearly visible around the world. Mr Powell has been second-guessed and marginalised more than any secretary of state in recent years.

Mr Bush appears unable or unwilling to settle the row. He is constrained from leaning too heavily on the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, by his fear of alienating pro-Israeli conservatives who represent the core of his re-election strategy.

Similarly, his administration's ideological colouring has hampered it in its effort to marshal the country's defences against terrorism. Mr Ashcroft, who carries the banner for the Christian right, spent his first months in office seeking to divert justice department resources from counter-terrorism to crusades against drugs and pornography. Even after September 11, scores of FBI agents have been tied up by a prolonged surveillance of a New Orleans brothel, and a crackdown was ordered against medical marijuana.

The next few months will be critical. Another terrorist strike on US soil while the intelligence agencies are squabbling over their turf could devastate confidence in the government. Meanwhile, if the long-awaited US initiative in the Middle East fails to stop the conflict there, Arab hostility to Washington could destabilise its allies in the region and further foment Islamic radicalism."

ppman
 
Sooner or later, all things return to their equilibrium.
 
You have competing strong personalities actually trying to engage in Diplomacy over polling, so I would expect strife as each strives to do what is right. Of course, we could go back to the good old days olf Clintonistic polling the triangulating posturing while believing in nothing other than the gullibility of thier fellow Americans.

The writer also seems to gloss over that we are getting a handle on the situation and these current terrorists will soon go the way of the Barbary Pirates because once again strong Americans will rid Europe of yet another plaugue.

Because you're to fawking gutless to do it on your own.

So you sit back and snipe...
 
SINthysist said:
Of course, we could go back to the good old days...

You mean when there was relative peace in the world

The writer also seems to gloss over that we are getting a handle on the situation...

You have got to be joking. Bush and his mates have led America into a situation where she has very little control over anything anymore. And is in grave danger of losing the little bit she has left.
 
ok so there are people within the White House of the same political affiliation that do not always agree or take credit for things that may or may not be thier doings. Your point is what? Clinton and Gore had issues with their staff (have to say this, Clinton could not keep his staff in his pants and outta an interns mouth..for the bleeding lefts, that was in jest, I did not care he got a hummer, all I had an issue with was lying under oath). Bush/Quayle, Reagan/Bush..ditto..remember Haig, "I am now in contol" or something like that.

They are egomaniacs and that is how they rose to power. Nothing new here, nothing ground breaking, no particular earth shattering revelation was put forth in that article. I still think you just afraid of us putting a Pizza Hut next to Buckingham Palace :D
 
I see p_pman is still fixating on George W Bush:rolleyes: Dude, you need some serious help. Dont you have socialized medicine in England? Call your local mental health clinic and make an appointment.:D
 
bored1 said:
I see p_pman is still fixating on George W Bush:rolleyes: Dude, you need some serious help. Dont you have socialized medicine in England? Call your local mental health clinic and make an appointment.:D


Well it's not often a man gets to witness the crumbling and destruction of an Empire because of the inadequacies of it's leader.

This is living history this is...

More gripping than Dallas ever was...

ppman
 
I saw George yesterday at my sisters graduation. He said to say hi to you.
 
I think its funny how one week Bush wants nothing to do with the FBI (how 9-11 might have been prevented if the FBI did their job) then he wants everything to do with the FBI. So here's a list of things Bush can also claim:
1) U.S advadces to next round of World Cup.
2) The Lakers win another NBA title.
3) The Red Wings win the Stanley Cup.
4) I walked outside yesterday and found a nickel on the ground.
 
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This is something we predicted in my national security class almost two months ago. We all saw the start of it there when the administartion was not all together. The individual members of the administration did not seem unified in the policy goals as much as they were before. They were doing so good for the past few months that even these small slips were very clear.




You can't compare this to anything the clintion administration did. Of course clinton's administratin had problems with various staff members(i am making a stand here no dirty jokes please) but there were never people so far up in his administration as the bush members are.
 
p_p_man said:



Well it's not often a man gets to witness the crumbling and destruction of an Empire because of the inadequacies of it's leader.

This is living history this is...

More gripping than Dallas ever was...

ppman
Do you know how I know you are completely full of shit? It keeps coming out of your mouth:eek: The crumbling empire was England's........our Republic will stand regardless of our president.........tho , I think he's not doing a bad job....in difficult circumstance. So sod off shitbird.
 
All Empires end eventually . . .

Anyone who doesn't realize that the US is, and has long been, an imperial power has such a feeble grip on reality as not to deserve to be taken seriously. If history teaches us anything, it's that all empires come to an end eventually. The American Empire will fall someday. The only questions are when, and how?

Bush and his top people are in disarray now, I think, for one main underlying reason. They have no solution for the economic crisis currently gripping this nation and the world. The global recession is the underlying cause of the bizarre political events we have seen recently, starting with Bush's usurpation of power. As the economic crisis grows worse and worse, the political contortions will become ever more bizarre and distorted.
 
Re: All Empires end eventually . . .

REDWAVE said:
Anyone who doesn't realize that the US is, and has long been, an imperial power has such a feeble grip on reality as not to deserve to be taken seriously. If history teaches us anything, it's that all empires come to an end eventually. The American Empire will fall someday. The only questions are when, and how?

Bush and his top people are in disarray now, I think, for one main underlying reason. They have no solution for the economic crisis currently gripping this nation and the world. The global recession is the underlying cause of the bizarre political events we have seen recently, starting with Bush's usurpation of power. As the economic crisis grows worse and worse, the political contortions will become ever more bizarre and distorted.
Man.......I am really in trouble if I need your input to give me a solid grip on reality............between you and peepee......I won't require any fertilizer for my garden. btw red.......I understand history just fine.........i just believe that our republic is going to outlast peepee. So thanks for the useless lecture sfb.
 
American empire.

Seems to me that the American 'empire' differs from previous types in that is a combination of both political/military and the extensive involement of U.S. corporations in the global economy.

Not surprising that the Bush administration is not on the same page as it represents a culture that extolls individualism and the free expression of it's corporations. Faced with a pretty well impossible situation in the Middle East it would be nice to see a united front but that is not the offering. Not likely that anyone is going to be dropped from the cabinet as it would draw attention to the problem.

Re. economy. Bush administration {or somebody} recently imposed a 29% import tax on Canadian softwood products. {i.e. plywood} I read that this will raise the avarage new home price in the U.S by about $1,500. Given that roughly 2/3 of the ecomomy is derived from consumer spending why is this a clever idea?

Can anyone explain how this happened?
 
Callableborg

Some good points, callableborg. The U.S. empire does differ fundamentally from previous ones, like the Birtish Empire in its heyday. Capitalism has progressed from the age of open imperialism to that of neo-imperialism. Rather than openly having colonies, the U.S. dominates most of the world through economic and clandestine means. The shift from open imperialism to neo-imperialism, which occurred around 1970, is also characterized by the de-industrialization of the advanced countries (the Midwest is the prime example), and the movement of factories overseas, to take advantage of the cheaper labor, laxer regulation, etc.

Bush's moves are dictated almost entirely by political considerations, not what is in the best interests of the U.S., and certainly not of the world at large (of which he has little knowledge ("Do you have black people here in Brazil?"), and even less respect).
 
RED, we dominate only those who seek to emulate and they revel in the relationship.
 
p_p_man said:



Well it's not often a man gets to witness the crumbling and destruction of an Empire because of the inadequacies of it's leader.

This is living history this is...

More gripping than Dallas ever was...

ppman
Leaders come and go. I doubt the "Empire" as you call it is going to disappear in my lifetime or my childrens lifetime. and Redwave I have to agree with you about the de-industrialization of the midwest . There was a shoe factory here in Ohio one of the last to produce in the US, they moved everything off shore because it was cheaper. The odd thing is, the shoes being produced overseas are of inferior quality. :rolleyes:
 
I think the main problem is that the early successes of the campaign against al-Qaeda made the Administration a little too optimistic. Remember Bush's statements at the beginning of the campaign: that the war on terrorism could and probably would take years, decades perhaps.

But after we so easily routed the fighting forces in Afghanistan and reordered their government, something that hadn't been done in a long time, we started thinking we could solve the impossible, like the Israeli/Palestinian mess. Recently, those plans have slumped a little, and now they're a little desperate to show us that we still have victories to show for our efforts.

Personally, I don't think the problem is nearly as bad as p_p, REDWAVE, and the Guardian's Julian Borger would like us to believe. Especially since all three of them show clear bias specifically against George W. Bush and to a lesser extent against the U.S. in general.

TB4p
 
Afghanistan just held a peaceful election and by all accounts looks forward to a chance to join the modern world.

WELL DONE BOYS, WELL DONE!

Pakistan, with US involvement and the world eye on it is now able to crackdown on Muslim Extremists and avert nuclear war with India.

WELL DONE BOYS, WELL DONE!

And as soon as President Bush presents his plan, which will be summarily rejected, then he will let go of the reins and let Israel just annex the West bank and Gaza and give the people a government. At that time we will also be able to jump and shout

WELL DONE BOYS, WELL DONE!

(and girls, apologies to Condi...)
 
teddybear4play said:
I think the main problem is that the early successes of the campaign against al-Qaeda made the Administration a little too optimistic. Remember Bush's statements at the beginning of the campaign: that the war on terrorism could and probably would take years, decades perhaps.

But after we so easily routed the fighting forces in Afghanistan and reordered their government, something that hadn't been done in a long time, we started thinking we could solve the impossible, like the Israeli/Palestinian mess. Recently, those plans have slumped a little, and now they're a little desperate to show us that we still have victories to show for our efforts.

Personally, I don't think the problem is nearly as bad as p_p, REDWAVE, and the Guardian's Julian Borger would like us to believe. Especially since all three of them show clear bias specifically against George W. Bush and to a lesser extent against the U.S. in general.

TB4p

Primary objective of Bush's campaign is to hunt down and destroy Osman bin Laden.

He's failed.

Secondary objective is to attack and destroy countries that give protection to terrorists.

He's failed. And before you remind me of Afghanistan. The country itself is still a fairly safe haven for al Qaida. It's only the capital, Kabul, which has some semblence of control.

Contrary to what you say Bush and his Administration were saying the 'war' on terrorism could last as long as 4-5 years. This was later amended to a longer time period when he realised exactly how big a problem terrorism is. I haven't yet heard the word decades mentioned. After all Bush himself hasn't got the power to hand on policies he's created himself to future Administrations.

The article repeats a lot of truth many of us have recognised for some time and it's small wonder that cracks are appearing in Bush's Administration.

One final point. My bias has always been against Bush. Never against the States.


:)
 
Unless you can prove otherwise, p_p_man.

Osama is dead.

His cells are being hunted down one at a time. Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Philipeans...

I know the success bugs you. But life is like a box of choc'lates...
 
SINthysist said:
But life is like a box of choc'lates...

You've hit on one of the lines I liked from the film...

But that pre-supposes it's all luck. You never know what you're getting until you pick one out and bite into it.

A war, any war, should rely on more than just luck to be successful...

ppman
 
I don't think we've relied on luck. We put a force in the field with the help of our noble allies and kicked some Taliban ass (least of those of us who could find some Taliban ;) !).

Relying on luck is lobbing a few Cruis missles...
 
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