I Killed Someone Today

[slyc_willie]

I didn't mean to, it just sort of 'happened.'

An old man came into the restaurant this afternoon. My hostess greeted him warmly, showed him to a table, handed him a menu. After about thirty seconds or so, I approached and offered him a glass of the house wine. He declined and ordered an iced tea instead. Upon coming back with the requested beverage, he proceeded to order one of our specials, a lightly-sauteed spinach salad with scallops and prosciutto. He loved it, and expressed his compliments to the chef.

After paying, he and I talked for a few minutes. Just normal, casual conversation. He had somewhere to be, but I delayed him just a little bit because our conversation interested us both. Eventually, he got up and left, heading down to his car.

Just outside the parking lot, on the access road to the highway, he was broadsided by a speeding truck and killed outright. The wreckage of both cars were strrewn across a path almost a hundred feet long. The gory details were splashed across the evening news.

If I had not engaged him in conversation after he'd paid, he would have left earlier and thus avoided the fatal event which claimed his life. Therefore, his death is my fault.

This didn't really happen.

I made it all up.

But it could have happened, very easily. In fact, such a scenario could occur to any one of us. All it takes is the barest of influences upon another's actions. That's what's known as the Butterfly Effect. There is no action in the universe that does not demand reaction, whether it be equal or not.

I have no doubt that, at various points in my life, I have contributed to a set of chain reactions which have ultimately lead to the demise of another, or the fulfillment of their dreams. By my actions, I have given life and taken it. I have destroyed as well as created. Such is as it has always been.

At what point does responsibility become replaced by fate, or simple happenstance? At what point do either begin?

 

[DeeZire]

I don't have to make this one up. Years ago, my first wife and I bought some land in North Idaho. We ended up splitting it with her sister and her husband, who still lived in New Jersey. We left a few years after they came out and put up their trailer near our cabin. A year or so after that, the husband was killed in a single car wreck on the gravel road leading to the property.

Surprisingly, I never felt crushing guilt about his death, even though I thought I should have. He was always a reckless driver, so I suppose that helped me to rationalize away culpability.

A few other interesting things happened up there - my sister-in-law had a quickie affair with the musician dude I was working with at the time - her first affair of their long term marriage.

On the one hand, I can look back at my life and see a wrecking ball, leaving carnage and destruction in its path. On the other hand, I can pour a glass of wine and think about other things, (specifically, the naked woman in the scene I'm working on in my latest story.)

I don't think we can worry too much about the butterfly affect. If we did, we would lose our self identity, surrendering it to some higher purpose that could be detrimental to our own self interest. As far as fate goes, I see it as a fancy word for life and all the boring details that go with it. Was it fate that all those people died on 9/11? I don't think so. Shit happens. Calling it fate is like using religion to explain away evolution.

(Looking at this quote: "There is no action in the universe that does not demand reaction, whether it be equal or not" I think it could apply over in the "Changes in Author's Hangout?" thread.)

 

[slyc_willie]

We never know how far our actions may apply. But there are philosophies that indicate we are responsible for every action we take, and for every outcome our actions may cause.

But, as you said, Dee, "If we did, we would lose our self identity, surrendering it to some higher purpose that could be detrimental to our own self interest."

Perhaps. So it ultimately comes down to survival of self over all others? Even given what we have learned about our own history, our own makeup, are we still such selfish creatures?

Not putting words in your mouth, just going with the thought process.

 

[Liar]

At what point does responsibility become replaced by fate, or simple happenstance? At what point do either begin?

For all intents and purposes, reality is random. Each and everyone takes a tiny part of the chaos and do our best to pin it down. But every contolled movement or action dissolves into a tree of possibilities exponentionally, you don't have to wait long until the ramifications of your actions are indistinguable from chaos. Obsessing over this will make you go insane, and then you'll have even less of control over the impossible swirl of the possible.

Now if you excuse me, I need caffeine...

 

[neonlyte]

In my late teenage years, I stood on a traffic island outside Charing Cross Station, London waiting to cross the road. In front of me was a guy who was so drunk he could barely stand. As I reached to steady him he tumbled forward and fell in the roadway and was caught between the rear double wheels of a truck. It's lunch time here, I won't describe the details.

Oddly... it introduced me to smoking. My shock was profound, a guy in the crowd lit a cigar and thrust it between my lips. A few seconds later, I threw up... copiously. I still occasionally smoke cigars. i haven't 'killed anyone' since.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

We can't take responsibility for butterfly effects because we aren't the only butterfly effecting these outcomes. yes, your conversation delayed him a minute or so. He also got delayed by someone else earlier in the day. He also made up some time by not shaving that morning. And then there are the circumstances of the days before. The people he met and didn't meet that put him in the mindset he was in when he woke up that morning. There are the people he worked with that caused him to retire earlier than he wanted to. there are the children he went to school with, and his parents that pushed him into going to the schools that he went to to learn his career.

Everything that happened before he died was the cause of his death. People he met, things he saw on TV, music he heard on the radio. People that have been dead for a hundred years helped kill that poor old man. Everyone is so responsible that no one person can claim responsibility for his death.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

For all intents and purposes, reality is random. Each and everyone takes a tiny part of the chaos and do our best to pin it down. But every contolled movement or action dissolves into a tree of possibilities exponentionally, you don't have to wait long until the ramifications of your actions are indistinguable from chaos. Obsessing over this will make you go insane, and then you'll have even less of control over the impossible swirl of the possible.

Yes. If I play the "what if" game too often, I'm staring right into the abyss... there's just no coming back from there.

 

[Owlwhisper]

.....

 

[oggbashan]

Whenever I go to watch my local amateur football team play - they lose.

Am I the cause? Am I to blame? Should I stay away?

Probably not.

They lose most matches whether I'm there or not. I've just been unfortunate to miss the one or two games a season when they celebrate a draw.

Og

 

[CWatson]

I go to play an online game with some friends. We lose.

Am I the cause? Am I to blame? Should I stay away?

Unfortunately, yes, I am: when I look at my win/loss ratio I realize it's 1:2, one of the lowest amongst all players of this particular game.

Fortunately, my friends don't mind.

 

[_Lynn_]

We can't take responsibility for butterfly effects because we aren't the only butterfly effecting these outcomes. yes, your conversation delayed him a minute or so. He also got delayed by someone else earlier in the day. He also made up some time by not shaving that morning. And then there are the circumstances of the days before. The people he met and didn't meet that put him in the mindset he was in when he woke up that morning. There are the people he worked with that caused him to retire earlier than he wanted to. there are the children he went to school with, and his parents that pushed him into going to the schools that he went to to learn his career.

Everything that happened before he died was the cause of his death. People he met, things he saw on TV, music he heard on the radio. People that have been dead for a hundred years helped kill that poor old man. Everyone is so responsible that no one person can claim responsibility for his death.

Ditto, what he said.

 

[TE999]

A few years ago I was driving down a busy stretch of US 1 a few miles from where I live. As I approached a well known saloon, I saw an extremely unsteady man walking along the edge of the road. I watched in surprise as he stepped directly in front of the car ahead of me. He flew up over the hood, rolled over the roof, down over the trunk and onto the pavement. I reflexively swerved to avoid hitting him, nearly hitting a car in the other lane. All three of us pulled over and ran back just in time to see another car run over him. He was horribly mangled and quite dead.

Whatever compelled him to step in front of that car...a few more seconds and it would have been my truck...fate only knows. That's how random our existences really are. Trying to explain it all is like trying to explain geometry to a goose.

 

[sr71plt]

The only time I actually seriously pray is in gratefulness of coming only "this close" to either causing or being caused to near misses like this.

 

[michchick98]

If I had not engaged him in conversation after he'd paid, he would have left earlier and thus avoided the fatal event which claimed his life. Therefore, his death is my fault.

This didn't really happen.

I made it all up.

But it could have happened, very easily. In fact, such a scenario could occur to any one of us. All it takes is the barest of influences upon another's actions. That's what's known as the Butterfly Effect. There is no action in the universe that does not demand reaction, whether it be equal or not.

I know you said you made this up, but I want to use this post to state my views.

You don't know that he would've died, no one did. It could've been his time to die (in the design of things) or he may have had a similar accident just a few miles up the road.

If you haven't ever seen the movie Final Destination, I recommend it. Of course, it's fictionalized due to Hollywood and drawing people to the box office, but the message is clear: "You can't cheat death."

Sure, by your actions and the actions of others, you can prolong it, but if "death" says it's time to check-out, then it's time.

At what point does responsibility become replaced by fate, or simple happenstance? At what point do either begin?

Any one of us could have the same thing happen. I try not to worry too much about stuff like this. My life is stressful enough without wondering what harm I might have caused others by my actions or if I'm gonna live to see tomorrow.

 

[amicus]

Slyc....a phrase you used last night...the other side of the coin...

I did a piece, a poem, I think, years ago, about a young man walking down a sidewalk in Waikiki, Honolulu, who, after crossing a street, turned to gaze at two bikini bottoms slinking across the same street in the opposite direction.

After the short pause to gawk, he continued down the sidewalk and a coconut fell just in front of him, bouncing on the sidewalk and into the gutter.

I choose to call it Serendipity, they even made a movie by that name, coinkydinck, I calls it, for had my character not turned to ogle the bikini bottoms, the coconut would have beaned him.

There are signs on each street, 'Beware of Falling Coconuts', as thas the truth!

Amicus

 

[Boxlicker101]

Consider this too, Slyc. If you hadn't engaged the man in conversation, he would have left a few minutes earlier, and might have been just in time to have the truck wipe him out. The brief conversation may have saved his life.

 

[Boxlicker101]

We can't take responsibility for butterfly effects because we aren't the only butterfly effecting these outcomes. yes, your conversation delayed him a minute or so. He also got delayed by someone else earlier in the day. He also made up some time by not shaving that morning. And then there are the circumstances of the days before. The people he met and didn't meet that put him in the mindset he was in when he woke up that morning. There are the people he worked with that caused him to retire earlier than he wanted to. there are the children he went to school with, and his parents that pushed him into going to the schools that he went to to learn his career.

Everything that happened before he died was the cause of his death. People he met, things he saw on TV, music he heard on the radio. People that have been dead for a hundred years helped kill that poor old man. Everyone is so responsible that no one person can claim responsibility for his death.

You're right, except for your conclusion. In the hypothetical case here, I believe the driver of the speeding truck would have been considered responsible for his death.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

You're right, except for your conclusion. In the hypothetical case here, I believe the driver of the speeding truck would have been considered responsible for his deat.

Why not the old man? How about both? I left the line out for a reason. It can be drawn anywhere.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The "Butterfly effect" is a fascinating concept. The idea is that a butterfly flapping its wings in South America might have an effect on the weather in Central park... it refers to the idea that Small variations of the initial condition of a dynamical system may produce large variations in the long term behavior of the system.

As the wikipedia entry points out; "While the butterfly does not cause the tornado, the flap of its wings is an essential part of the initial conditions resulting in a tornado"
and then there are some very pretty pictures of circles and squares

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
You're right, except for your conclusion. In the hypothetical case here, I believe the driver of the speeding truck would have been considered responsible for his death.

Why not the old man? How about both? I left the line out for a reason. It can be drawn anywhere.

The old man too, maybe, to some degree, but if the truck hadn't been speeding, there probably would have been no accident.

 

[jomar]

I changed deodorant brands in early 2008. Obama was later elected.

 

[jomar]

A DP. I wonder where it will lead.

 

[slyc_willie]

I couldn't wait to get home to see where this led.

This whole thought process started with the mention in another thread of string theory. The notion that all things are connected under a single, uniting umbrella of forces is interesting and made me wonder, if string theory is ever proven correct, what impact it may have on our ideas of cause and effect.

Thee, I really liked your take on this. "Everything was responsible for his death." That's sort of the point I was getting at. The butterfly effect, under the proof of string theory, could be morally argued to remove anyone from blame in any situation . . . or place the blame on everyone.

All in all, some really cool discussion.

 

[Liar]

A DP. I wonder where it will lead.

I spent tree seconds looking at this. Now I won't step over that bug that will infect my city's drinking water with the mutated smallpox virus and won't save the world from pandemic.

You bastard.

 

[CharleyH]

I didn't mean to, it just sort of 'happened.'

An old man came into the restaurant this afternoon. My hostess greeted him warmly, showed him to a table, handed him a menu. After about thirty seconds or so, I approached and offered him a glass of the house wine. He declined and ordered an iced tea instead. Upon coming back with the requested beverage, he proceeded to order one of our specials, a lightly-sauteed spinach salad with scallops and prosciutto. He loved it, and expressed his compliments to the chef.

After paying, he and I talked for a few minutes. Just normal, casual conversation. He had somewhere to be, but I delayed him just a little bit because our conversation interested us both. Eventually, he got up and left, heading down to his car.

Just outside the parking lot, on the access road to the highway, he was broadsided by a speeding truck and killed outright. The wreckage of both cars were strrewn across a path almost a hundred feet long. The gory details were splashed across the evening news.

If I had not engaged him in conversation after he'd paid, he would have left earlier and thus avoided the fatal event which claimed his life. Therefore, his death is my fault.

This didn't really happen.

I made it all up.

But it could have happened, very easily. In fact, such a scenario could occur to any one of us. All it takes is the barest of influences upon another's actions. That's what's known as the Butterfly Effect. There is no action in the universe that does not demand reaction, whether it be equal or not.

I have no doubt that, at various points in my life, I have contributed to a set of chain reactions which have ultimately lead to the demise of another, or the fulfillment of their dreams. By my actions, I have given life and taken it. I have destroyed as well as created. Such is as it has always been.

At what point does responsibility become replaced by fate, or simple happenstance? At what point do either begin?

Not a new thought, but always a fascinating one. Thank you.