I have to agree with spinarooni...

[Black_Bird]

Because agreeing with PP_man and Redwave is just too scary.

Seriously? My opinion is that we can protect our nation *without* violating the Consitution of the United States. I also don't have a very high opinion of our president at this time being, either; if he was so all american, he wouldn't have signed it into law.

I miss the Consitution too, guy. Chin up! We can always over throw the government.

Or is that terrorism?

 

[zach79]

That is an interesting thought.

Let's say 25% of U.S. citizens are completely fed up and decide to overthrow the government. Is it patriotism or terrorism?

Our Constitution does say that if our government isn't working, we as Americans have the right to change it or revise it (or something to that effect).

More than anything what truly bothers me are career politicians. We need fresh new faces and ideas to keep from stagnating. It should be mandatory that no one spends more than say 2 terms in any elected or appointed office, and/or no more than 20 years total in the field of politics. I don't think that this is what our forefathers had in mind.

 

[scylis]

you know, the thought occured to me the other day, a thought that spelled out in big bold letters a view of mine that i've had for quite some time:

"one man's terrorism is another man's revolution."

it's such a simple, logical, easy to understand idea. and i can't tell you how many millions of Americans wouldn't realise it if it crashed a plane into 'em. hmm... that's actually about what happened, isn't it?

ok, they wouldn't realise it if it walked up and punched them in the face.

that better?

 

[Black_Bird]

That is an interesting thought.

Let's say 25% of U.S. citizens are completely fed up and decide to overthrow the government. Is it patriotism or terrorism?

Let them all move to one state (preferably California or Texas: more space and all that), take it over and then secede from the union. Personally, I would prefer the US to be more of a federation then a republic, but that's just me.

Our Constitution does say that if our government isn't working, we as Americans have the right to change it or revise it (or something to that effect).

Actually, if I remember correctly, it tells us that we *must* overthrow our government if it becomes a tyranny. It's a patriotic duty.

More than anything what truly bothers me are career politicians. We need fresh new faces and ideas to keep from stagnating. It should be mandatory that no one spends more than say 2 terms in any elected or appointed office, and/or no more than 20 years total in the field of politics. I don't think that this is what our forefathers had in mind.

All the more reason to overthrow the government... Everyone, come on in join onhe fun! Not you, Redwave; sorry, but this isn't that type of revolution.

 

[Weird Harold]

Actually, if I remember correctly, it tells us that we *must* overthrow our government if it becomes a tyranny. It's a patriotic duty.

Actually, that would be the Declaration of Independence that says that.

The Consitution details the means and methods for changing the government peacefully.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

Let's say 25% of U.S. citizens are completely fed up and decide to overthrow the government. Is it patriotism or terrorism?

you have a right to bear arms against a tyranical government....but good luck not getting your house burnt down and your family slaughtered.

 

[binkley]

We can always over throw the government.

It is illegal to overthrow the governent by violent means. Recall the Whiskey Rebellion?

http://earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/milestones/whiskey/

 

[brokenbrainwave]

Re: Re: I have to agree with spinarooni...

It is illegal to overthrow the governent by violent means. Recall the Whiskey Rebellion?

it's illegal because they say it is....

 

[sunstruck]

Re: Re: Re: I have to agree with spinarooni...

it's illegal because they say it is....

Which makes it so.

You can't overthrow the government because you don't like the politicians. You have to take issue with the process, with democracy.

If you could just yank all the politicians out of power and replace them with freshies what would be the point of the process?

 

[binkley]

Re: Re: Re: I have to agree with spinarooni...

it's illegal because they say it is....

That would be a tautology, wouldn't it? It is illegal because it is against the law.

I'm not making a judgement as to the wisdom of such a law.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

Re: Re: Re: Re: I have to agree with spinarooni...

Which makes it so.

You can't overthrow the government because you don't like the politicians. You have to take issue with the process, with democracy.

If you could just yank all the politicians out of power and replace them with freshies what would be the point of the process?

correct, I could not agree more. But yes we have the right to toss them out, and are given the right to bear arms against a tyranical government. Now I am not suggesting our government is tyranical, but some of the laws do exsist for their own self preservation.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

Re: Re: Re: Re: I have to agree with spinarooni...

That would be a tautology, wouldn't it? It is illegal because it is against the law.

I'm not making a judgement as to the wisdom of such a law.

nor was I Binkley.

 

[Merlins Boon]

Let's say 25% of U.S. citizens are completely fed up and decide to overthrow the government. Is it patriotism or terrorism?

Our Constitution does say that if our government isn't working, we as Americans have the right to change it or revise it (or something to that effect).

Yes, it was the Decleration of Independeance that stated:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient causes; and, accordingly, all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government and to provide new guards for their future security.

 

[binkley]

We hold these truths to be self-evident

The original draft by Jefferson read:
We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable.

http://www.pbs.org/jefferson/enlight/politi.htm

 

[sunstruck]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I have to agree with spinarooni...

correct, I could not agree more. But yes we have the right to toss them out, and are given the right to bear arms against a tyranical government. Now I am not suggesting our government is tyranical, but some of the laws do exsist for their own self preservation.

WHen did you get so gun happy? Do any of you actually think we are in such a bad way that it is time to take arms against our government? I sure as fuck don't.

We can make changes. Of course we won't, becuase no one is actually going to DO anything about anything. Everyone is just going to sit on their asses and complain and critisize and berate the democratic process without realising that by it's very nature it only doesn't work when THE PEOPLE don't choose to be a part of it.

 

[Merlins Boon]

The original draft by Jefferson read:
We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable.

Yeah, well, I pulled this out of my government book, so neh

 

[brokenbrainwave]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I have to agree with spinarooni...

WHen did you get so gun happy? Do any of you actually think we are in such a bad way that it is time to take arms against our government? I sure as fuck don't.

We can make changes. Of course we won't, becuase no one is actually going to DO anything about anything. Everyone is just going to sit on their asses and complain and critisize and berate the democratic process without realising that by it's very nature it only doesn't work when THE PEOPLE don't choose to be a part of it.

I think your mistaking my point. I am NOT gun happy, I hate the damn things and refuse to allow one in my house. What I was saying is yes we have that right, I was in no way saying it was time to envoke the right. It is a point that is very often missed, that was all I was getting at.

 

[sunstruck]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I have to agree with spinarooni...

I think your mistaking my point. I am NOT gun happy, I hate the damn things and refuse to allow one in my house. What I was saying is yes we have that right, I was in no way saying it was time to envoke the right. It is a point that is very often missed, that was all I was getting at.

Sorry, I'm just frustrated with all the complaining.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I have to agree with spinarooni...

Sorry, I'm just frustrated with all the complaining.

No harm done, but now you get a spanking

 

[Merlins Boon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I have to agree with spinarooni...

We can make changes. Of course we won't, becuase no one is actually going to DO anything about anything. Everyone is just going to sit on their asses and complain and critisize and berate the democratic process without realising that by it's very nature it only doesn't work when THE PEOPLE don't choose to be a part of it.

I think the reason that a lot of people just sit and complain is because they really don't know where to start to help make the change. So, why don't we get constructive and post up some ideas of how we can change the way things are running.

Just to kick it off, we could start by writing to all of our senators and all of our representitives. Now, if only two or three people write and complain about something, they're not going to think much of it. But if EVERYONE writes in, floods them with mail, floods them with e-mail, floods them with phone calls, then they're going to have to at least take some notice of the issue at hand.

If that's not enough, everyone should put in a call to your local news station or stations, as well as the major media outlets like radio, newspapers, and magazines. Tell them that you're very worried about a certain issue or governmental procedure. As a journalism major and a currently working journalist, I can tell you that the media WILL respond to strong opinions by the public, because they're going to show things that they know the public will be interested in. And if the public decides to be interested in a certain issue, then the media is going to put a spotlight on that issue, and THEN the Congress will have to take note. Even people overseas can help by speaking to THEIR government officals and declaring their position on what the U.S. is doing.

For folks here at home, remember that every State has TWO Senators...and a number of Representatives based on the population. You need to speak out. You're letter doesn't have to be long and eloquent. It can be as simple as this:

Dear Senator/Representative,

I'm really worried about how the Government is handling [insert event or subject here]. I feel that people are being treated unfailry/I feel that the Constitution is being violated/I feel that these are crimes against humanity. I really want something to be done about it.

Sincerely,
U.S. Citizen

So let's hear it. Anyone else have any ideas about what you can do?


"Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph."
-Haile Selassie

 

[teddybear4play]

More than anything what truly bothers me are career politicians. We need fresh new faces and ideas to keep from stagnating. It should be mandatory that no one spends more than say 2 terms in any elected or appointed office, and/or no more than 20 years total in the field of politics. I don't think that this is what our forefathers had in mind.

Career politicians have been around forever, especially in the Senate, where it wasn't until the 20th century that they had to be elected to office — before, they were appointed, and many of the times for life.

The problem comes when they continue to get reelected not because they're a great statesman or orator, but because they get shit done by bringing pork-barrel projects to their state. South Dakota is a very Republican state, overwhelmingly voting for George W. Bush in the last presidential election, but they've voted Tom Daschle as their senator thrice. Not because they agree with his politics — they obviously don't — but because he has enough clout to get shit done for them. Restricting the amount of time Congressional representatives can serve would do wonders for eliminating that problem.

TB4p

 

[Bob Waters]

That is an interesting thought.

Let's say 25% of U.S. citizens are completely fed up and decide to overthrow the government. Is it patriotism or terrorism?

Our Constitution does say that if our government isn't working, we as Americans have the right to change it or revise it (or something to that effect).

Depends on if you win, history is written by the victors.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Seriously? My opinion is that we can protect our nation *without* violating the Consitution of the United States. I also don't have a very high opinion of our president at this time being, either; if he was so all american, he wouldn't have signed it into law.

I miss the Consitution too, guy. Chin up! We can always over throw the government.

Or is that terrorism?

The way things are, posting a link on the internet can be terrorism.

Seriously, just a few issues of reforming the beuracratic process within the FBI and CIA and the interaction between the two can save more lives than the Anti-Terrorism Bill or the Patriot Act ever could.

Instead, these vital bureaus are given MORE buracracy. Wow. Way to go, Mr. Pres. Really making a difference here.

 

[Lasher]

You're an idiot

and are given the right to bear arms against a tyranical government.

2nd Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

If you can actually explain what that means I'll give ya a shiny new quarter.

Personally I think someone fucked up and put too many commas in - but that's another thread.