I had an epiphany about Gor

[Croctden]

It’s the Scientology of BDSM.

They both come from fictional books
They both have marginal followings
They both have bunches of rituals
They both are generally mocked even though most people know little about them

Boy…I hope Katie Jones is okay

 

[Xelebes]

Let me guess, Furries are the J-dubs?

 

[TaintedB]

It’s the Scientology of BDSM.

They both come from fictional books
They both have marginal followings
They both have bunches of rituals
They both are generally mocked even though most people know little about them

Boy…I hope Katie Jones is okay

That is pretty damn funny!

I'll add to this:

They are both generally mocked by the people who have have studied them extensively and know them better than they know themselves.

They try to slay you if you become an enemy of the movement, although one group only does it in the chatrooms. :/

And (although I'm not sure the analogy holds here? Someone tell me)...

Certain very famous celebrities have adopted them and do very silly things in public based on their beliefs?

 

[Seduce]

I admit I know nothing about Scientology, can someone explain please?
(I dont claim to know much about BDSM either).

 

[TaintedB]

Scientology is a cult that emerged in the early 70s. Unlike Gor, the founder of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard, intentionally started the cult. He had had a successful career before that time as a science-fiction writer, and the basis of Scientology is a fairly standard sci-fi plot (seen it in several dozen plots, not penned by Hubbard). The cult became very popular very fast (at it core, at least in the early stages, is the idea of cleansing or fixing your personality, of becoming what's known as "clear"). This process is divided into many stages and each stage costs more money to purchase than the last. Their formula is extremely addictive, and in that sense they resemble the best of the mmorpg's (additive online games played with other people). You get a little taste and you want to come back for more... and more... and more. Hubbard's design was brilliant in that regard, and anyone who has ever wanted to get rich founding a cult would be well advised to study Scientology's very successful methods. When you reach the half million investment stage or thereabouts you get told the grand secret about life, the universe and everything, which, as I mentioned above, is a fairly standard sci-fi plot, that's been used in dozens of stories prior to Hubbard's appropriating it for his cult. If you want to know the great secret you can easily find it for free on one of the many anti-scientology websites or books.

It is not a poor man's cult, and that is another part of its brilliance. I believe a lot of well-to-do people are attracted to it precisely because of its finanancial elitism: to enter into the higer echelons of the cult and to feel big and important you don't need any outstanding personal qualities, talents, or abilities: you just need cash. Those who purchase their "enlightment" probably also purchase a wonderful feeling of superiority over those who can't afford to know the deep secrets. Another very sound strategy Scientology employs is to really coddle it's celebrity members: by doing so they become loyal and avid spokespeople for the cult, and bring in thousands of new marks, er, members.

The Church of Scientology is immensely rich and powerful these days. Like many powerful cults of the 70s that "caught on" (Moonies being a good example of this) they dabble in and try to influence national and world politics. Although they try to keep a low profile and work behind the scenes, there are certain "issues" that get their members and leaders acting very irrationally. So they've gotten a huge amount of news coverage over the years, much of it negative. They have a very bad reputation in certain areas. They tend to persecute those who oppose them, allegedly even unto death. And they have other issues that they bring their huge financial resources (which buys political clout) to bear on. Their biggest such beef that I know of is against the type of anti-depressant called an SSRI. Scientology money is behind many of the popular urban legends, believed by hundreds of thousands to be true, that such drugs actually turn people into psychotic killers or suicides. While a few people do wig out after taking SSRI's, I believe that percentage to be significantly lower than those people who wig out taking asprin.

I read grocery market gossip tabloids because they are entertaining and because I learn things about the general culture that way: what the majority think and feel and want to believe. Very recently, there was a story they all carried about how upset a famous female celebrity (Brooke Shields) was because Tom Cruise cruelly slammed her on talk shows and in public venues about her post-partum depression. He'd never attacked her before. The behavior of Cruise's was described as cruelly shocking and irrational. Although the tabloid didn't (dare) make the connection, if you know Tom Cruise is a fanatic Scientologist and you know Brooke went on an SSRI to help her with her depression (and publicized this heavily--I think she wrote a book about how they helped her) then you see the pattern: a fanatic church member defending the institution's belief that SSRI's are The Devil Incarnate.

I'm of a much more cynical bent of mind about all of this, having dabbled with Scientology when it first came out. I don't think there is actually a fear of human health going on although I'm sure that's what the church feeds its loyal party members. The newer anti-depressants help so many people and help them so well that individuals who might perviously been sucked into expensive Scientology treatments because of their depression, anxiety, and dissatisfaction with life, just aren't going there anymore. The popularity of SSRI's represent an enormous income loss for that cult, I believe.

 

[curiousjen]

wow that was interesting. Cults fascinate me, always have. Cheers tainted! I didn't know anything about scientologists either, although I think they're more an American phenomenon that a British one, correct me if I'm wrong. You don't hear a lot about them over here. What you said about SSRIs is tremendously interesting to me as someone who has qualms about them myself- I shall read the anti SSRI websites and leaflets I get with a healthy dose of scepticism from now on me thinks.

 

[TaintedB]

wow that was interesting. Cults fascinate me, always have. Cheers tainted! I didn't know anything about scientologists either, although I think they're more an American phenomenon that a British one, correct me if I'm wrong. You don't hear a lot about them over here. What you said about SSRIs is tremendously interesting to me as someone who has qualms about them myself- I shall read the anti SSRI websites and leaflets I get with a healthy dose of scepticism from now on me thinks.

Hi Jen! Glad you liked my Scientology 101 course. It's a personal opinion, of course, based solely on my own experiences, those of my friends, and my personal reading. I think Scientology is mostly an American thing, although L. Ron, if I remember right, was a British citizen.

I've had considerable experience with SSRI's. About 10 years ago I started taking one for my very bad PMS moodswings. Not the standard thing you take one of these drugs for, but it helped me immensely when nothing else (I'd tried all the normal stuff) had. SSRI's work well with ordinary neurotics and for emotional-based difficulties. My more psychotic friends report, however, that they have little or no effect. They do have one very icky side effect on lots of people: your libido takes a nosedive. :/ Certain brands have more of this effect than others, but they all have it to some degree. Still, if you are in emotional extremis, the tradeoff of peace and relief is worth it, at least for awhile. Another thing that is true about them is that they are extremely addictive: not in the sense that you crave them, you don't, usually, but in the sense that you can't quit cold turkey without very powerful and negative emotional side-effects. Instead, to quit an SSRI safely, you need to very slowly and gradually reduce the dosage you take: in my experience, if you don't drag out the ramping off for at least 45 days (preferably longer), you'll get nasty side effects.

 

[Croctden]

Scientology

Scientology is a cult that emerged in the early 70s. Unlike Gor, the founder of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard, intentionally started the cult. He had had a successful career before that time as a science-fiction writer, and the basis of Scientology is a fairly standard sci-fi plot (seen it in several dozen plots, not penned by Hubbard).

It's not a cult, it's just a scam. The Hubster actually said shortly before inventing Scientology that inventing a religion was the easiest way in the world to get rich. I also would not call them a cult because even a cult has the religious aspect of faith - cut off your tallywacker and Johnny the Demon will come teach you how to fly. Scientology has no component of faith or spirituality. Instead they repeatedly make claims, such as you'll get a photographic memory, and say they will prove it to you. They have a book "Dianetics" they claim will give various mental powers. It's a real book, the Hubster wrote it. You'll see them selling it in malls on occasion. When was the last time a minister told you he would "prove" Jesus died on the cross?

The cult became very popular very fast (at it core, at least in the early stages, is the idea of cleansing or fixing your personality, of becoming what's known as "clear").

You left out the best part. They test how clear you by running a low level electical current through your body and seeing how well you conduct it (if a certain precentage goes through you are clear). You sit there with hold two mental cylinders while someone talks to you.

I'm of a much more cynical bent of mind about all of this, having dabbled with Scientology when it first came out. I don't think there is actually a fear of human health going on although I'm sure that's what the church feeds its loyal party members. The newer anti-depressants help so many people and help them so well that individuals who might perviously been sucked into expensive Scientology treatments because of their depression, anxiety, and dissatisfaction with life, just aren't going there anymore. The popularity of SSRI's represent an enormous income loss for that cult, I believe.

Why does there have to a rational explanation for this? Why can't we just say they are nuts? Why did they deny the Hubster was dead and instead said he was one a cruise? Why did they compare Germany not recognizing it as a religion (which no country does) to the Holocaust?

 

[curiousjen]

I've had considerable experience with SSRI's. About 10 years ago I started taking one for my very bad PMS moodswings. Not the standard thing you take one of these drugs for, but it helped me immensely when nothing else (I'd tried all the normal stuff) had. SSRI's work well with ordinary neurotics and for emotional-based difficulties. My more psychotic friends report, however, that they have little or no effect. They do have one very icky side effect on lots of people: your libido takes a nosedive. :/ Certain brands have more of this effect than others, but they all have it to some degree. Still, if you are in emotional extremes, the trade off of peace and relief is worth it, at least for awhile. Another thing that is true about them is that they are extremely addictive: not in the sense that you crave them, you don't, usually, but in the sense that you can't quit cold turkey without very powerful and negative emotional side-effects. Instead, to quit an SSRI safely, you need to very slowly and gradually reduce the dosage you take: in my experience, if you don't drag out the ramping off for at least 45 days (preferably longer), you'll get nasty side effects.

I think what you say about them is very fair. The reason I am so very sceptical is that when I was seventeen and first experiencing depression I went along to the doctors. I got there and the doctor was sat there all cross legged how can i help you in the chair kind of thing. So I started to tell her about my symptoms, and as soon as I mentioned the word "depressed" it was like this little light went off and she started writing the prescription right away, before I'd even told her what kind of depression or any real details. Then I looked around the room, and there was like a Prozac mug on her desk, and perched between her chubby little fingers was a Eli Lilly pen. I bet you can't guess what she perscribed me??? From that day onward I starting researching into drug companies and the kind of pressure they can put on doctors and hush up the results of long term trials and all the countless other examples of power abuses that these companies commit in the name of medicine when all its really about is money.

I was on SSRI's for the best part of five years. They successfully alleviated some of the symptoms for a short while, but I got a lot of negative side effects including a dramatic fuelling of my mania. Of course you don't know whether it is the illness or the drug, which is why noone can prove anything against them, but I know that I had never been suicidal BEFORE they put me on prozac etc, and soon after I was. For a long time I told my doctor that I didn't like the way the SSRI was making me feel but she refused to take me off them to another brand of antidepressant (that I had researched was much more effective for my kinds of symptoms) and I believe the reason for this was drug company pressure.

I was taken off SSRI's when I was hospitalized. They didn't reduce the dose, I went from a very high dose, to nothing. As you described, tainted, the side effects I suffered were really shit.

I could waffle for ages so I won't. But to cut a long story short I changed doctors and was prescribed a tricyclic antidepressant instead of an SSRI (as well as a shitload of others) and I am much happier with it. My psychiatrist now actually listened to my symptoms and the research I had done and agreed with me that an older antidepressant would be more effective. I'm not saying this is the case for everyone, or that SSRI's are bad, just that there is far too much pressure from drug companies on doctors to prescribe them, and too many lies, and the older antidepressants are becoming seen as "inferior" when in reality they are just as effective and for many many people they really may be the better option.

 

[Seduce]

TaintedB thank you a lot for such detailed post on the subject.

I understand it better now...... although didnt form any opinions yet, I would have to think about it for a while.
But I am not very much in cults, I have tough time belonging to ordinary RChatolic church since I always ask questions that seem to irritate or offend someone there

 

[Aeroil]

Similar in some ways maybe, but I don't think Gor is really a bad thing (as opposed to what I think about scientology), just a really wierd thing lol.

 

[TaintedB]

TaintedB thank you a lot for such detailed post on the subject.

I understand it better now...... although didnt form any opinions yet, I would have to think about it for a while.
But I am not very much in cults, I have tough time belonging to ordinary RChatolic church since I always ask questions that seem to irritate or offend someone there

That's easy to do with the Catholics. Speaking from experience here, too. It's not really a "thinking" religion, it's a "believing" religion. Well, I take that back, the Jesuits do a sort of thinking. I think they mostly waste their wonderful minds.

 

[TaintedB]

I...The reason I am so very sceptical is that when I was seventeen and first experiencing depression ...

My god what a story. Some other people in here who have the manic thing (forget what it's called) also have said that SSRIs didn't work well for them. But I think because they work for most people, doctors just throw them like candy at anyone who hints at being depressed or dissatisfied. In the US, if you tell a doctor or nurse practioner that the brand of SSRI you are taking isn't working, and you insist (and you usually don't have to insist that hard), they always switch you to another. It doesn't take much to get them to change. Your doctor was close to criminal in not switching you after you told him or her that it was making you feel suicidal. Geez!

 

[TaintedB]

Similar in some ways maybe, but I don't think Gor is really a bad thing (as opposed to what I think about scientology), just a really wierd thing lol.

I think Gor can be bad, because I've seen a lot of people hurt by it, well, not by it per se but by the people online trying to practice it. Gorean chatrooms can be very mean places (there are exceptions of course) and people spend half their time lashing out and trying to hurt others in them, it seems. :/

 

[grace9]

I think Gor can be bad, because I've seen a lot of people hurt by it, well, not by it per se but by the people online trying to practice it. Gorean chatrooms can be very mean places (there are exceptions of course) and people spend half their time lashing out and trying to hurt others in them, it seems. :/

Hey TaintedB....thanks for giving an explanation of Scientology. I've been trying to figure out what the heck it is for years!!!! I went to Los Angeles in '97 and it creeped me out how many people that I met there were so caught up in it yet couldn't clearly explain to me what it was or without a weird glaze in their eyes.

If you feel so inclined...might you tell me what Gorean is? I never heard of it until this thread.

Thanks a bunch!
Gracie~

 

[onceburned]

If you feel so inclined...might you tell me what Gorean is? I never heard of it until this thread.
Gracie~

Tainted gave wonderful account of Scientology and I will not even attempt to do so well as to Gor. But Goreans are folks who, primarily in chatrooms, try to emulate the culture of Gor.

So what is Gor?
=====================================================
Gor is a fantasy world that was created by John Norman sometime in the sixties. He called it "counter earth", a place in perfect opposition from Earth. Upon Gor, a more advanced race called the Priest Kings controls the populace and the world from a distance, a lot like puppet Masters. To keep Goreans from destroying their own world as Earthlings presumably are, the Priest Kings forbid the use of technology. Don´t misunderstand though, Goreans are extremely advanced. Additionally, the Priest Kings gave the Gorean´s the knowledge to cure old age, i.e. "the wrinkling and crippling disease". This contributes to the cultural practicality of a warlike society.

Well, that´s all well and good you say, but what´s that got to do with this hunger crazed quest for Gor in the D/s society on Earth?

The Gorean philosophy is simple. The male gender, being stronger, larger and generally quicker is dominant. They rule their world like alpha males of a pack. Goreans live in cities, in tribes, upon the plains, in the northern reaches of the planet, but all cities or tribes, without exception, are male dominated and warlike. Because Gor is such a harsh world and its lifestyle is a "true" representation of the"natural selection and order" of things, the men are bigger, stronger, quicker, etc. than the average Earthling male.

There are three kinds of women upon Gor.

Freewomen, who remain free because they mind their place as second class citizens. These women are a sad representation of the female gender, in my opinion. They live their lives under the rules that the men have established for them as little more than the Victorian Bride taught that she should never yield to the slightest indelicate suggestion of submitting to unbridled desire. Like the Victorian female, for a Gorean freewoman to enjoy sex with a man would be to yield to her sworn foe.

Then there´s the Panther or "Taluna" Girls. They are Freewomen who have left their veils and robes of concealment to go live in the Northern Forests or are escaped slaves. These women hide within the forests, hunting and living in packs, in complete defiance of the male dominated society.

Gor, or the "kajira". Kajira are the pleasure slaves of men. They are Freewomen who mouthed off one too many times and had their veils ripped from them, captured Panther Girls on occasion, Gorean females bred and raised to be "passion slaves", or delicious little "natural borne slaves" brought from planet Earth by cargo ships.

A kajira is taught at the hands of dominant men to serve and to do so with perfection. Not too far into her training a kajira recognizes that serving in any capacity is a privilege, be it fetching his drink or remaining quiet as he attends his business. Service is a privilege, not a right. A kajira has no rights, least of all the right to receive the gift of service.

In Gor, men are Masters of their own fate. Slaves are not. A kajira is property. Property that is cherished and cared for, but a creature that is allowed the luxury of breathing for one reason and one reason only. A kajira will fetch, serve, go, stay, follow, lead as she is instructed. She will obey with absolute, unquestioned and instantaneous obedience. When she does not, she will feel the lash of the punishment whip or the pain in her belly from not being fed. Very much like slaves of Old Guard Leather, a kajira understands that her position is one of servitude. She lacks the liberty to determine her course of actions and is *happy* to relinquish this control to the men of Gor.
==============================================

There is more there is you want to read the essay: What is Gor?
by Silk

 

[FurryFury]

I think what you say about them is very fair. The reason I am so very sceptical is that when I was seventeen and first experiencing depression I went along to the doctors. I got there and the doctor was sat there all cross legged how can i help you in the chair kind of thing. So I started to tell her about my symptoms, and as soon as I mentioned the word "depressed" it was like this little light went off and she started writing the prescription right away, before I'd even told her what kind of depression or any real details. Then I looked around the room, and there was like a Prozac mug on her desk, and perched between her chubby little fingers was a Eli Lilly pen. I bet you can't guess what she perscribed me??? From that day onward I starting researching into drug companies and the kind of pressure they can put on doctors and hush up the results of long term trials and all the countless other examples of power abuses that these companies commit in the name of medicine when all its really about is money.

I was on SSRI's for the best part of five years. They successfully alleviated some of the symptoms for a short while, but I got a lot of negative side effects including a dramatic fuelling of my mania. Of course you don't know whether it is the illness or the drug, which is why noone can prove anything against them, but I know that I had never been suicidal BEFORE they put me on prozac etc, and soon after I was. For a long time I told my doctor that I didn't like the way the SSRI was making me feel but she refused to take me off them to another brand of antidepressant (that I had researched was much more effective for my kinds of symptoms) and I believe the reason for this was drug company pressure.

I was taken off SSRI's when I was hospitalized. They didn't reduce the dose, I went from a very high dose, to nothing. As you described, tainted, the side effects I suffered were really shit.

I could waffle for ages so I won't. But to cut a long story short I changed doctors and was prescribed a tricyclic antidepressant instead of an SSRI (as well as a shitload of others) and I am much happier with it. My psychiatrist now actually listened to my symptoms and the research I had done and agreed with me that an older antidepressant would be more effective. I'm not saying this is the case for everyone, or that SSRI's are bad, just that there is far too much pressure from drug companies on doctors to prescribe them, and too many lies, and the older antidepressants are becoming seen as "inferior" when in reality they are just as effective and for many many people they really may be the better option.

Hi Curious Jen,

I am so sorry for what you have been through. *hugs*

I watched this same thing happen with my Mom after my Dad died. First they got her hooked on anti anxiety drugs, then put her through every-single drug and mental diagnoses they could think of.

For her, the worst by far was Prozac. Yes, I do know that Prozac helps some and that is great. She however got much worse on the stuff. That was when the actual suicide attempts started. Not the mere longing for death and thinking about it, that so many of us are familiar with but the attempts of which there have been so many, I’ve truly lost count.

I told the doctors from day one that I did not want her on drugs but they all seem think it’s the perfect golden key to everything. I understand drugs help many. I’m happy for them, but some people are drug resistant or react in non-standard or counter intuitive ways to these drugs.

Considering that her favorite method of suicide attempt was to over dose on these same drugs, the doctors were literally handing her the weapon of choice over and over. After an attempt I at first, would remove the drugs from easy access but I found they so freely prescribed them that in a week or two upon release from the hospital, she would again have enough to fill up a galloon-sized zip lock baggie!

I do agree a lot of what these people tend to do is about money. The shock treatments, in house therapy and drugs, are all done in such a way that all of her insurance benefits are used up each year. That seems very convenient to me.

There are in my opinion a few gems in the “helping professions” but you have to sift through a lot of dirt to find them. The bad ones often have convinced themselves they are merely doing the expedient and right thing. If only they would listen to their patients as though both the doctor and the patient were equals, with areas of specialized knowledge and work in partnership to reach their mutual goals. All too often this is not the case.

I have been lied to and manipulated by doctors. I have seen some very unprofessional behavior and accusations from them. I could go into a lot of detail about this but I won’t right now. These folks are just people who are guessing and they are not perfect.

A few years ago my daughter had some problems. For the third time I took her to a particular psychologist. I told this woman the first time I went in to never suggest drugs to me for my child. I explained about how drug resistance and adverse reactive the family tends to be and up to this point she was good about that. I felt she had helped my child twice before so I trusted her.

This time she broke that trust. She basically not only insisted the child-needed anti-depressants but also called me out in front of the child. Little did she know my child would not be interested in being on drugs and would be angered by this. She told it me it was unreasonable for me to not even consider drugs. Said my child was depressed, which I agreed with, and that I needed to decide at what point I would accept drugs. She even said she didn’t know what I wanted her to do therapy wise.

I was furious. Still I gathered myself and told her exactly what I wanted her to do. I told her I knew at what point I would consider drugs, but did not reveal when that would be, to her.

This particular day was the worst day I had ever had and that is saying a whole hellva lot, there was a lot more to that day but I felt my child was sinking and I couldn’t help her. I felt her black hole was going to take me and destroy me, the marriage and our family too.

Anyway, that very night I found something that helped her. From that point on, it was like the sun came out for her and therefore, me as well. Then over the next months, I took more steps that I thought were in her best interests and that this doctor disagreed with.

However, she later pulled me aside and said, she could now see what I did was right and effective. You rarely hear that as a parent. I loved that she took the time and was honest enough to see that. This child is a very happy one and has been for a long time now.

The decisions I made then was mostly against what everyone else I knew, including my husband, thought was right. It was very hard. I thought it was wonderful that she told me that. Everyone who thought I was nuts is now able to see how well things have worked out.

There is no one right path that doctors and patients can take. There are many paths. Each person is different; no one protocol fits them all. Pigeonholing and auto diagnoses are dangerous in these situations.

Fury

 

[Croctden]

If you feel so inclined...might you tell me what Gorean is? I never heard of it until this thread.

I know much less about this than onceburned, but someone who used to be into it told me that there are certain classes of slaves that are reserved for aliens (in this case they would be the Raeliens of BDSM)

To me they are defined by their elaborate rituals, slaves have to know all these exacting positions, dances, etc. This is why I was never interested. I don't want my sexual life decided by a bad science fiction author.

 

[TaintedB]

Sure, here is Gor 101. Biased, as always, so take it with a grain of salt.

Back in the late 60s and throughout the 70s a science-fiction/fantasy author named John Norman wrote a series of books that came to be causually referred to as "the gor novels" because each book had Gor in the title: "Slavegirl of Gor, Princess of Gor, Fighters of Gor," etc.

Gor is a planet that is in earth's orbit but on the other side of the sun so we never see it or guess that it is there. The people who live on gor are fur-wearing barbarians...but they also have spaceships and they visit earth regularly to kidnap vanilla women whom they turn into slaves. Go is a misogynistic place, a 14 year old boy's wet dream. All women are inferior to men. There are a few rare free women but even they are looked down on and always at risk of being enslaved by the macho barbarians. The beautiful women are sex slaves. The not-so-beautiful ones work as drudges in the mills and as broodmares, birthing men and more female slaves. But you don't hear much about the latter. The stories center around the beautiful slaves.

So that is Gor. There is usually a putative plot in the novels that does not involve women but all the time the books are full of details about various females' enslavement. Hot details too! But you have to read through a lot of very repetitive philosophic stuff to get to the good parts. Oh, one more thing before I get into Gor the Phenomenon. The way Norman paints the relationships are like this: the man is very, very harsh to the woman for a long time. The harshness gets truly barbaric at times: locking a whipped and bleeding woman in a tiny iron cage for weeks at a time (in real life the wounds would get septic from her own excrement and she would have died--but not on gor), hamstringing slaves who run away so they have to crawl around, etc. But eventually, the woman works her female wiles on the harsh master and in spite of himself he falls in love with her. Usually at the very end of the book, because love isn't nearly as exciting as all the conflicts and hot power sex that arise from those conflicts.

But when people talk about Gor online, they aren't usually talking about the books. They're talking about groups of people who get together in various ways, chat rooms or message boards like this one. Such people identify with Gor, it is a way of life or philosophy to them. The gorean lifestyle began with ideas in the Norman books but it's taken on a life of its own. People developed the ideas more and also, after awhile, splinter groups arose, just as there are in bdsm. Different schools of Gorean thought. Gor isn't as popular now as it was five or seven years ago. Not sure why that is. Maybe because it's not an easy thing to really live? But the Goreans get a lot of ribbing, including from the larger bdsm culture, largely because of their kind of unrealistic misogynistic beliefs.

I've hung out in a lot of Gor chatrooms and lurked on the message boards because I was fascinated by the phenomena: that people would live their lives according to a set of fiction novels not even meant by the writer as the founding of a movement or anything. On average (and again bear with me there are always lots of exceptions) the people attracted to the gor stuff seem to be a more divisive and unhappy bunch than most people and they fight among themselves a lot. I am not sure why that is. Perhaps because when you agree with everyone about all the basic stuff, you have to find ways to differentiate yourself from the group, and that often takes the form of disagreement? Not really sure. On this lit bdsm board, this is not so much of an issue because a lot of different lifestyles and points of views are represented here: we don't all think the same things or like the same things. We already are different as different can be so there is no need to make ourselves moreso, lol!

Anyway, Gor is not for me. I could not base my lifestyle around a science fiction series, particularly books that are written so poorly! (I am not usually much of a critic when it comes to sci-fi, I avidly devour anything in that genre, but the Gor books were tough to get through.) Also, I do not like all the conflicts and intrigues and backstabbing that tends to go on in gorean circles, at least in the ones I've seen online. But the chatrooms can be sexy if you don't get involved in the politics. People who like to perform, particularly submissives, enjoy them very much because they get to do these very structured dance-acts called "serves" for the men in which there is also room to express your submissive lustful creativity. And if you do good serves you become a popular and admired person in the room (like I said above, given their divisiveness, I am not so sure that being popular on Gor is a good thing!) I am the opposite of an actress though, I hate to put on shows, and I couldn't do a serve unless it was a joke. I wouldn't know what to do: I just like being my boring ordinary old self, lol, not a "red silk kajira" (kajira = female slave).

As you may have guessed from what I just said, a lot of the gorean chatrooms are heavily roleplay based, and if you go into one and do not act your role you will quickly get ostracized. So before going to Gor, go to one of the websites and read up on how to behave. (For example, in many rooms, the women must ask permission of the men to enter--not sure how this is done, as they're usually already in the room when they ask--and then crawl in on hands and knees.) Also, every chatroom seems to have its own rules, so you can't just go to any old gor website, you need to visit the one connected with the room you intend to visit. Or else go in as a guy and observe how the women act before you go in as a female.

 

[TaintedB]

Tainted gave wonderful account of Scientology and I will not even attempt to do so well as to Gor. But Goreans are folks who, primarily in chatrooms, try to emulate the culture of Gor.

So what is Gor?
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Thanks! I tried my own Gor 101 too. I think it compliments yours nicely. I got more into explaining how I personally respond to Goreans online rather than doing the detailed facts like you did. And man, I had completley forgotten about those Priest-Kings! They weren't the least bit human-looking, were they?

Gor culture has been around at least since people first began using computer systems (before the Internet became accessible or popular) and probably much earlier. I remember some heavy Goreans were on Compuserve hanging out with the other perverts back in 1986. That's where I first heard of Gor and then began reading the books.

 

[TaintedB]

I know much less about this than onceburned, but someone who used to be into it told me that there are certain classes of slaves that are reserved for aliens (in this case they would be the Raeliens of BDSM)
.

That is interesting. What goes through my mind is a sort of Jabba the Hut and chained Princess Leia scene. I wonder if the Priest Kings of Gor looked like him? What a possibility for humiliation for their slaves, if so!

 

[Croctden]

That is interesting. What goes through my mind is a sort of Jabba the Hut and chained Princess Leia scene. I wonder if the Priest Kings of Gor looked like him? What a possibility for humiliation for their slaves, if so!

I meant the other way around: humans can't be the highest leave of pleasure slave. And I don't really have anything to say about that.

But thank you for reminding me of that chained Princess Leia scene.

 

[onceburned]

Thanks! I tried my own Gor 101 too. I think it compliments yours nicely. I got more into explaining how I personally respond to Goreans online rather than doing the detailed facts like you did. And man, I had completley forgotten about those Priest-Kings! They weren't the least bit human-looking, were they?

Oh, you did far better than me. I stole my words from the article I quoted.

Its been awhile since I read any Gor books, but from what I remember the Priest-kings were giant insects. Very smart insects but still...

For those who do not want to search out a Gor book, you can always read:
Houseplants of Gor
Its a satire, but you will get the drift.

 

[grace9]

Answers to What is Gor

Thanks so much Croctden, TaintedB and onceburned for explaining this to me! Gor 101 in five posts or less, this has got to be a record somewhere!
After reading the info that you all provided....don't think I'll be looking into Gor very much more than that.

It seems there are A LOT of people into this and like I always say "whatever blows your skirt up".......but this....would give me hives from having so many rules and structures to remember and adhere to!..LOL....and it just doesn't sound like something that's "me".

TaintedB, from what you said about the chatrooms, I don't think I'd ever visit. Just because I'm not too fond of "structure" and wouldn't enjoy being yelled at for breaking protocol (which I'm sure I unknowingly would).
I'm happy with the mutable quality of BDSM and how it is freely defined among participants and there are as many relationship "structures" as their are couples to define them. But I could see how BDSM and Gor could overlap for those so inclined.

But just like Dianetics, I don't feel I could build a life around a book. BTW...does anyone remember that Dianetics was a joke when it came out in the '70's? I vaguely recall it was kind of a "cheesy" book then, now Tom Cruise (among other celebs) is their spokesperson.

I write fiction and I would be really freaked out to be honest if a cult arose around something I wrote. I mean it's fiction....I make this stuff up in my head for cryin' out loud!...I don't know, I'd be tweaked....maybe that's just me.

I've heard Gor referred to around message boards and never had an idea what folks were talking about...now I do...

Thank you all for taking time to clear this up for me.

*settles into chair, happy at Lit*

Gracie~

 

[catalina_francisco]

Browsing again...bump?