I got a question about all this post-9/11 and military hero worship.

[Skibum]

Riff, when was the last time you risked your life to do your job?

I'm a teacher, too, but I have nothing but respect for the firemen, cops, soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines who put their lives on the line everyday. And they do it out of a sense of obligation to society, not for the miniscule salary they receive for their sacrifice.

 

[Weevil]

Re: Re: Man I don't know about hero worship

This is a good point and shouldn't be forgotten. During and after Viet Nam, people who served were widely disrespected -shunned, condescended to, or even worse. Many were even physically assaulted or spat upon. I think it's very hard for people to separate their feelings about the people who fought the war and the war itself.

One of the things that was so wonderful about the movie Black Hawk Down was that it communicated the dubious nature of the American mission in Somalia while simultaneously emphasizing the personal bravery, dedication, and yes, heroism of the American soldiers who took part in the mission.

Well, I hate to open up the can of worms but in my own opinion you shouldn't seperate your feelings on a war and the people who fight the war. Saying "The war was bad but the soldiers were good" is misleading because the soldiers are the war.

And one of the things that was so terrible about Black Hawk Down is it's belief that to tell a story about soldiers means you need to canonize them.

 

[1hotjob]

Ya know what?

Let me wake up in the morning.
Go to work and do my 24 hour shift.
Do what I have to do in the 24 hours I'm there.
Fight fires, make rescues, EMS, Hazardous conditions.
I give 110% always.
Just pay me my measly wage every 2 weeks and let me go home in the morning!

By the way, I love what I do and wouldn't do anything else.

1HJ

 

[Jimi]

Heroes - many jobs - same sacrifice

Along the same train of thought, less emphatic and a bit different....


*Pssst Are you with me so far? I think not *


Anyway, I know NYC cops who feel that the post 9/11 laud is almost insulting. They feel they take their lives in their hands every day and as one put it, "Many people had to die in order for us to be recognized."

And yes, they do their job as you and I do ours, riff. My life has been in jeopardy in the "line of duty" as well. It was an understood fact when I took the job.

On the other hand, hero worship is a tool by which the country can focus their attention, generate postivity and I believe, finding heros is part of healing.

So, no, hero worship isn't bullshit.

Right ON! Birthday Gal.

Responding positively to those who DO their jobs "above and beyond" is absolutely essential to preserving the Free Society that most of the English-speaking world enjoys, IMHO!

Riff is entitled to his opinion - but those of us who "hero-worship" are richer for what we can learn from others' sacrifices... My thoughts, anyway!

 

[chewbacca71]

My father in law is a fire marshall and was an online fireman for over 20 years and he also has said to me that most of his friends are embarrassed by all the attention. They understand that with the job they hold, that they may be called on to risk their lives at any time. He feels that the biggest thing that people should get out of what the fireman and police and rescue folks did is what is expected of them and that we should have more respect for what they do.

I am not sure if it is the same way in all the places that you folks live in, but here there has been a lack of respect for the police, fireman, emt, ect... People have shot at them and things like this. Now with the police, I can sort of understand, since you can turn on your local news in most areas of the country and see a story about corrupt cops. But when did you last hear about a fireman who went bad or the evil EMT. I think that people are appreciating the people in our society that are making a sacrafice for the common good.

So if nothing else, the canonizing of the service people such as police, fire, and EMT does at least raise awareness, then it was all for the good. Just my 2 cents.

Chewey

Wow, that was a long post for me

 

[La Huesera]

The firemen, policemen and EMTS that died that day would tell you(if they could) that they don't want to be heros...that they are not heros. They were doing their jobs..thats it. I am sure as those people were going up the stairs of the Twin Towers they had fear..they would not be human if they did not...but that is what makes them heros. They put the fear of death behind them and went forward to help people that needed them. To me, that is what makes them heros.

Hero: 1. a person admired for his achievements and noble qualities: one that shows great courage.

If the rescuers that died in the WTC do not fit that, I am not sure who does....

I hope that these people who died..and fire/police/emts...are always remembered as HEROS!!

 

[Calamity Jane]

Yes, the rescuers that day behaved in a heroic manner (no, that doesn't make them heroes) but I have to agree with Riff on the point of hero-worship.

Main Entry: hero worship
Function: noun
Date: 1774
foolish or excessive adulation for an individual

How is that healthy for either the 'hero' or for us? Putting people on a pedestal is never a good thing.

 

[Calamity Jane]

I hope that these people who died..and fire/police/emts...are always remembered as HEROS!!

Only the ones who died?

 

[La Huesera]

No, not only those that died....

"Main Entry: hero worship
Function: noun
Date: 1774
foolish or excessive adulation for an individual"

I also did not say that anyone should worship these people. They would not want that..as I said..most feel like they were just doing their job. However, if I had a child I would want him/her to look up to someone like this other then some actor..or football/baketball/baseball player. If putting fire/police/emts on a "pedestal" helps children see that you don't have to make millions of dollars to contribute to sociaty... then so be it. I would also hope that my child could feel like they could go to the above people if they needed help...and feel safe doing so. (yes, I understand that there are bad people in all professions, but I would trust one of these people more)

If the people that worked the WTC are not heros..and simply acted in a heroic manner..who do you think are the heros??
Just because someone acts as/is a hero...does not mean they should be worshiped... but they should have all of our respect.

 

[riff]

Well, I am sorry that I have not responded to everyone who posted on this thread. But I read everything and more, I thought about it too.

It isn't so much a matter of heros themselves, that is, individuals who do or have done extrordinary things, from the man next door all the way to Beowulf himself. It is human nature to recognize exceptionality. We all have heros and none of us need to justify them. But when we "heroize" someone or a group of people, we do tend to elevate them to a mythic status and the person or people lose some of their humanness and become something other than what they really are or were in the first place. People just like us. I do not mean that they are no longer human or real, but that something, for lack of a better word, "real" is lost. But what makes a hero a hero in the first place to me, is the element of humaness first.

I am still uncomfortable with the over-dramatization and propaganda that permeates our media's treatment of the men and women who lost their lives or made sacrifices or are making sacrifices in the entire 9/11 milieu. I was not at the WTC when that event took place. I am not in Afghanistan. And I am a teacher- no, I was not at Columbine when a teacher tried to protect the lives of his students and was killed in the process. Remember the guy who swam through the frozen Potomac to rescue the drowning survivor of that jet that crashed back in the 80's? What was his name? I wonder what he is doing now? I think when that happened, he was just another person- he might even be one of you degenerate slime here at lit :~) - and he still is a real person I am sure.

I keep returning to this idea of propaganda. The media. Our nation's government (and no, Republican people- it has nothing to do with partisanship- the conservative monkeys are doing very many of the same thing that mid-spectrum and liberal monkeys would do). Listen to me, calling ordinary people monkeys. Robbing them of their humanity..... Okay, let's just agree that we are all primates. LOL

Propaganda is simply propaganda. Propaganda is not truth. It distorts. It tints reality with unreality. What is the truth? Well, let's just say that you have your map and I have mine- they may differ, but it's all the same territory.

dancinvixen- I want you to fuck the hell out of your husband. your little daughter- I want for you to take a little time out and buy her or give her some little special gift for no reason at all and when she asks "why" (if she asks why! u know how kids are) just tell her because you love her and she is a very special little girl. And please excuse me if I sound as though I am telling you what to do, it is merely just a way of saying, "this is what I would do if I were that woman..."

In fact, all of you: If I were you, I would do the same thing. Grab one of your fellow primates and groom them or something. Fuck them really good if they like a good fucking. Do something truly heroic and don't tell any of us about it.

Ok, I am rambling and preaching. Enough.

 

[La Huesera]

Well, I am sorry that I have not responded to everyone who posted on this thread. But I read everything and more, I thought about it too.

It isn't so much a matter of heros themselves, that is, individuals who do or have done extrordinary things, from the man next door all the way to Beowulf himself. It is human nature to recognize exceptionality. We all have heros and none of us need to justify them. But when we "heroize" someone or a group of people, we do tend to elevate them to a mythic status and the person or people lose some of their humanness and become something other than what they really are or were in the first place. People just like us. I do not mean that they are no longer human or real, but that something, for lack of a better word, "real" is lost. But what makes a hero a hero in the first place to me, is the element of humaness first.

I am still uncomfortable with the over-dramatization and propaganda that permeates our media's treatment of the men and women who lost their lives or made sacrifices or are making sacrifices in the entire 9/11 milieu. I was not at the WTC when that event took place. I am not in Afghanistan. And I am a teacher- no, I was not at Columbine when a teacher tried to protect the lives of his students and was killed in the process. Remember the guy who swam through the frozen Potomac to rescue the drowning survivor of that jet that crashed back in the 80's? What was his name? I wonder what he is doing now? I think when that happened, he was just another person- he might even be one of you degenerate slime here at lit :~) - and he still is a real person I am sure.

I keep returning to this idea of propaganda. The media. Our nation's government (and no, Republican people- it has nothing to do with partisanship- the conservative monkeys are doing very many of the same thing that mid-spectrum and liberal monkeys would do). Listen to me, calling ordinary people monkeys. Robbing them of their humanity..... Okay, let's just agree that we are all primates. LOL

Propaganda is simply propaganda. Propaganda is not truth. It distorts. It tints reality with unreality. What is the truth? Well, let's just say that you have your map and I have mine- they may differ, but it's all the same territory.

dancinvixen- I want you to fuck the hell out of your husband. your little daughter- I want for you to take a little time out and buy her or give her some little special gift for no reason at all and when she asks "why" (if she asks why! u know how kids are) just tell her because you love her and she is a very special little girl. And please excuse me if I sound as though I am telling you what to do, it is merely just a way of saying, "this is what I would do if I were that woman..."

In fact, all of you: If I were you, I would do the same thing. Grab one of your fellow primates and groom them or something. Fuck them really good if they like a good fucking. Do something truly heroic and don't tell any of us about it.

Ok, I am rambling and preaching. Enough.

Very well put riff... Well, I am off for grooming or fucking..maybe both

 

[WhiteRose]

I grew up in a family full of the military (Marine Corps, Navy, Army, Air Force) and also full of nurses, teachers, and police officers, and I've had a special appreciation for them since I was old enough to recognize what they do. I understand the sacrifices and the sense of duty that pervades ALL of these occupations (you might even call them lifestyles.) The attack on America didn't change that one bit.

What it DID do was help bring back the pride of being an American, an appreciation for the services that all of these people do for us every single day...an appreciation that we, as Americans, seem to lose when we aren't in crisis (in fact, the masses seem to spend the times between crises talking these service personnel down!) We only seem to focus on that when something slaps us upside the head and drags us out of our everyday mundane lives and reminds us that there is a larger world out there past our front door.

Are they heroes? To me, yes. It takes something really special in a person to be willing to give of himself to help others...whether it be on the battlefield or in an emergency room or in a classroom. No, they don't have to do it. Yes, they know the consequences before they sign up (teachers have known for decades that teaching is a relatively low paying profession with little overt gratification, yet some people are still walking into a classroom hoping to make a difference -- that is special to me.) What counts is that there are still people who live in our society who are willing to step forward and DO it. And they should ALL be thanked and acknowledged.

And I agree with Bored1, our society is totally screwed up when we are willing to pay entertainers (actors, sports players, etc....some politicians ) SOO much money, yet clutch our pocketbooks when it comes to paying the people who have signed up to do the really tough jobs that matter.