I got a question about all this post-9/11 and military hero worship.

[riff]

Has anyone mentioned that these people are just doing their jobs and that they get paid like the rest of us? Some get killed because of the dangers involved, but it is not like it is a risk they didn't know about.

You mean to say I am jealous?

I am a teacher. The pay sucks and I put up with all kind of crap. I knew that going in. I provide a very valuable service to society, don't I?

I'm just doing my job. I think all the hero worship is a bunch of bullshit.

 

[MissTaken]

Along the same train of thought, less emphatic and a bit different....


*Pssst Are you with me so far? I think not *


Anyway, I know NYC cops who feel that the post 9/11 laud is almost insulting. They feel they take their lives in their hands every day and as one put it, "Many people had to die in order for us to be recognized."

And yes, they do their job as you and I do ours, riff. My life has been in jeopardy in the "line of duty" as well. It was an understood fact when I took the job.

On the other hand, hero worship is a tool by which the country can focus their attention, generate postivity and I believe, finding heros is part of healing.

So, no, hero worship isn't bullshit.

 

[freescorfr]

Has anyone mentioned that these people are just doing their jobs and that they get paid like the rest of us? Some get killed because of the dangers involved, but it is not like it is a risk they didn't know about.

You mean to say I am jealous?

I am a teacher. The pay sucks and I put up with all kind of crap. I knew that going in. I provide a very valuable service to society, don't I?

I'm just doing my job. I think all the hero worship is a bunch of bullshit.

Of course it is, riff. It's a projection of our own self-image into the imaginary - "if I were as brave as that..."" . That's the hero-worship bit.
But the desire to serve your country as a teacher, as a servant of the young in their quest for autonomy, in their insertion as adults into society, that is the desire of the unsung hero at his/her greatest.

 

[riff]

I hear you- but I still ask.

Who needs any positivity generated in the wake of what happened? You would have to be inhuman to not have feelings about it- compassion for the families, hope that the perpetrators are brought to justice, and sadness that people's lives were cut short.

Singing "God Bless America" is like saying "God is Great, God is Good, Let Us Thank Him For Our Food."

The propaganda trivializes. I still think it's bullshit. It's just the way I feel about it.

Now, I need go do my job. Gotta turn all them shits into left-wingers (it's a tough job, the pay sucks, and I am under constant attack, but someone has gotta do it).

 

[MidnightAngel]

Has anyone mentioned that these people are just doing their jobs and that they get paid like the rest of us? Some get killed because of the dangers involved, but it is not like it is a risk they didn't know about.

Yes, I agree that military personnel know the risk involved in their commitment when they enlist. However, I don't agree that the fact that they KNOW they are signing on for a hazardous job makes their sacrifice any less significant. {This also goes for police officers, firefighters, anyone who has a job that involves risks for the benefit of others}.

Should all the military persons who died to preserve the freedom of this country be taken for granted simply because they knew the risks? Not in my opinion.

 

[riff]

Re: Re: I got a question about all this post-9/11 and military hero worship.

Yes, I agree that military personnel know the risk involved in their commitment when they enlist. However, I don't agree that the fact that they KNOW they are signing on for a hazardous job makes their sacrifice any less significant. {This also goes for police officers, firefighters, anyone who has a job that involves risks for the benefit of others}.

Should all the military persons who died to preserve the freedom of this country be taken for granted simply because they knew the risks? Not in my opinion.

Who is talking about taking anything for granted? I am talking about what I consider to be propagandizing and the dehumanization of people into icons of nebulous "freedom."

You want to express your thanks to a soldier? Buy him a beer sometime. That's the way I see it.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

Teachers are heros - kinda - but.....

think about it - (you must be smart, right?)

If your so-called, bullshit 'heros' - didn't win WWII.......

Would you be teaching 'what' you are teaching now?
Would you be teaching in the enviornment you are now teaching?
Would you be teaching at all?
Would you have ever been born?

Those 'bullshit heros' as you call them - have allowed you to become 'who you are.'

And? You're a teacher?

 

[dancinvixen]

Riff, I understand the point <somewhat> that you are trying to make. My husband is in the military as is my little brother and his wife. I believe that people use "hero-worship" to say things about people that they don't know, but wish they could be like in so many ways. I will be one of the first to say that in the wake of 9-11 the military has become more prominently figured in this. Mainly because they do literally put themselves in the way of gun fire, or anything else in order to keep this country alive.
But on the same note, so do many others and they definitely do not get the same response. My question is, what about the teachers of this country who help us teach our children right from wrong? or the police and firefighters? What about the little people? I believe that this country needs to focus more on the everyday heros, and not just the special time heros.

The other day my 6 year old daughter came home from school all excited to tell her father that he was her hero. He was shocked to say the least, but felt he needed to know why. So he asked her why. This was her response, and it brought tears to my husband's eyes. "Daddy, your my hero because you love my sister and I so much. Your always trying to teach me how to be good instead of bad. I just wish other kids had a daddy like you."

 

[riff]

Re: Teachers are heros - kinda - but.....

think about it - (you must be smart, right?)

If your so-called, bullshit 'heros' - didn't win WWII.......

Would you be teaching 'what' you are teaching now?
Would you be teaching in the enviornment you are now teaching?
Would you be teaching at all?
Would you have ever been born?

Those 'bullshit heros' as you call them - have allowed you to become 'who you are.'

And? You're a teacher?

I disagree. You make them sound like gods. So what am I supposed to do, go suck their dicks?

What if the the printing press had never been invented?
What if Jesus had said, Fuck pain- I'm getting drunk?
What if Stalin had been assassinated shortly after Lenin's death?

What if nobody listened when the first word was spoken?

What if they fought a war and nobody decided to go?

I could jerk off to questions all day, and it doesn't change a damned thing about my sentiment regarding "heros."

 

[Hamletmaschine]

I always liked that Tina Turner song, "We Don't Need Another Gyro."

 

[riff]

Riff, I understand the point <somewhat> that you are trying to make. My husband is in the military as is my little brother and his wife. I believe that people use "hero-worship" to say things about people that they don't know, but wish they could be like in so many ways. I will be one of the first to say that in the wake of 9-11 the military has become more prominently figured in this. Mainly because they do literally put themselves in the way of gun fire, or anything else in order to keep this country alive.
But on the same note, so do many others and they definitely do not get the same response. My question is, what about the teachers of this country who help us teach our children right from wrong? or the police and firefighters? What about the little people? I believe that this country needs to focus more on the everyday heros, and not just the special time heros.

The other day my 6 year old daughter came home from school all excited to tell her father that he was her hero. He was shocked to say the least, but felt he needed to know why. So he asked her why. This was her response, and it brought tears to my husband's eyes. "Daddy, your my hero because you love my sister and I so much. Your always trying to teach me how to be good instead of bad. I just wish other kids had a daddy like you."

Thank you so much. And more- thank your sweet little girl. "Out of the mouths of babes...."

Tell your hubby I will gladly buy him a beer. But warn him that I won't salute. I think you understand. I know that he would.

 

[freescorfr]

Re: Re: Teachers are heros - kinda - but.....

IWhat if they fought a war and nobody decided to go?

Are you thinking of the Italians?

 

[riff]

smart ass.... LOL

 

[dancinvixen]

Thank you so much. And more- thank your sweet little girl. "Out of the mouths of babes...."

Tell your hubby I will gladly buy him a beer. But warn him that I won't salute. I think you understand. I know that he would.

Riff, he would understand.

 

[freescorfr]

There's a real culture abyss here for me - I've just dipped into the Military vets thread thinking it was about army doctors who looked after horses to realise that in USA this veteran thing is big, whereas it's really marginalised here - ex-services folk are seen as an odd set of bodds who share a possibly ditinguished past but are well out of touch with real life.

Chez vous it seems they are almost defining of RL.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

What?

Most US Vets serve only a few years in the military - and spend the rest of their lives in 'real life.'

 

[Adoratrice]

Now, I need go do my job. Gotta turn all them shits into left-wingers (it's a tough job, the pay sucks, and I am under constant attack, but someone has gotta do it).

And yet another reason I will be Homeschooling next year.

 

[sch00lteacher]

Riff, riff, riff... . Just when I think your coming around...

I got to get my holier than thou robe on, give me a minute here.

Only once in my life did I rush into a burning building to save anyone. Our damned BS / PX whatever you want to call it, was on fire. I was the first one on the sceen, cop or fireman. Didn't even stop to think, rushed right in. Got people out, went down to the furnace room where it had started, big ol' oil tanks and shit, pulled the German civ. out, he was unconscious... Yeah I got patted on the back, but that isn't the point.

I never stopped to think. I didn't have the right gear, no breathing apparatus, etc. I shouldn't have gone down to the furnace room. If I hadn't he'd of died. I am not telling this to be called a hero, but to point out that the guys who were only doing their job on 9.11.01 didn't stop to think either.

They just went. They were not worried about their pay, they were not worried about themselves, they were worried about others. People like you and me. They died, for strangers.

If they were not heros, then what the hell is a hero? Define it for me. Superman? Spiderman? Tell me.

Some people call teachers heroic, doing what we do, for little pay or recognition. Are we? I don't think so. But how many fights have you broke up? How many times have you stepped in to intervene in a student's life, a student with problems? It really isn't our job to do that, but we do it. Still, we ain't heros.

What brought this on anyhow?

Vietnam, the way we treated our guys then was trivial. Spitting on them instead of shaking their hands. So now we sing God Bless America and that is wrong? It is bullshit?

You're gonna have to support your argument better than that.

Okay, I am taking my holier than thou robe off now, I am done.

So, is Jeff gay? What do you think about the divorse? Is she tired of play acting?

 

[bored1]

These people were indeed doing their jobs...Just as millions of us do everyday....Ive always believed the true heros in our society were the policemen.firemen.ER people and many others including teachers.......I would rather see these individuals recieve the adulation for their commitment than some over paid spoiled Actor,Athlete,Rock Star etc.........These individuals are not heros at all, yet are held up on a pedastal and are considered heros and role models........I do believe that the continual patriatism thing does diminish things a bit......That seems to be typical in America.....If a little is good than more is better.....

 

[Vinny]

Riff

What you said doesn't piss me off one bit. I understand where you come from. What you say makes sense. If the police, firemen, teachers, nurses etc get the same credit all would be fine. I think anyone who puts into society deserves a beer.

 

[SINthysist]

Man I don't know about hero worship

All I know is that being a Marine in the years immediately following Viet Nam made one somewhat paraih in society.

Why shouldn't they have thier moment?

 

[riff]

Re: Riff

What you said doesn't piss me off one bit. I understand where you come from. What you say makes sense. If the police, firemen, teachers, nurses etc get the same credit all would be fine. I think anyone who puts into society deserves a beer.

I owe you a six-pack.

 

[riff]

And yet another reason I will be Homeschooling next year.

Good for you! Don't warp them too bad. They might wind up becoming teachers.

 

[Vinny]

6 pack

I don't drink but thanks. Being a Marine, I had tunnel vision. I still believe the Marines are the best. But now, I have a same level respect for all services and all occupations that contribute to society in a positive way. Including prostitution

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Re: Man I don't know about hero worship

All I know is that being a Marine in the years immediately following Viet Nam made one somewhat pariah in society. Why shouldn't they have thier moment?

This is a good point and shouldn't be forgotten. During and after Viet Nam, people who served were widely disrespected -shunned, condescended to, or even worse. Many were even physically assaulted or spat upon. I think it's very hard for people to separate their feelings about the people who fought the war and the war itself.

One of the things that was so wonderful about the movie Black Hawk Down was that it communicated the dubious nature of the American mission in Somalia while simultaneously emphasizing the personal bravery, dedication, and yes, heroism of the American soldiers who took part in the mission.

I think part of the military hero worship is here really is to accentuate the positive. After such an incomprehensible and senseless destructive act, it's natural for people to try to reconstruct a sense of their world as a place where there are some "good guys" out there fighting what seems to be obvious evil. The horror of 9/11 was stark and absolutely obvious - the presence of goodness and hope in that event was dwarfed by the sheer magnitude of suffering.

Can you blame people for trying to pick up the pieces and reconstruct a vision of the world where there are "good guys" out there fighting for what's right and trying to keep the evil in the world at bay? Whether or not the military and emergency services people are "just doing their job" or are exceptional people going above and beyond the call of duty misses an important point. Regardless of whether these people are actual heroes, they represent an ideal that's comforting to people after a bewildering tragedy. They're coatracks upon whom we can all hang our hopes of humanity.

As our nation continues to "heal" from these attacks, people will come to see that holding these people up as human superheroes was exaggerated. Some of us will look back on the period and smirk at our naivete, but for those who keep a strong memory of 9/11, I think they'll come to see all this as a coping response to a difficult time.

Time will tell.