I found it

[tealsphynx]

After hearing and reading all this b/s about "traditional family values" I finally found somewhere that outlines wtf these people are talking about! Granted I think it's a load of hypocritical BS buuuuuut now I can use this sht in my arguement about why it's wrong to expect everyone to live by these "tfv's" There's actually an organization that I found the info from. It's called (big schocker here) the Traditional Values organization...yeah, so according to them we should all live based on the "guidelines" set forth in the old and new testament Ok, that's great, but I'm not Christian so why should I be living by the Bible? they believe in a right to life from conception to birth and they're against euthanasia....but the death penalty is ok. It appears that they think that STD's are a result of premarital sex and that if everyone kept it in their pants before and after marriage we wouldn't have them. Oh, also that "family" is based on blood, marriage and adoption. Homosexuality, bisexual, transgendered and other devient sexual behaviors are destroying our society and that the bible condemns any sexual activity that isn't between a man and a woman who are married, and sodomy is wrong. Porn is a threat to the family and leads to child molestation and abuse, possibly even murder because porn destroys a person's conscienc. We should be loyal to our country..although we should not be blindly loyal (as opposed to blindly believing in our faith because we can't really prove that there's a heaven or hell, but you'd better believe there is because it's in the bible and the bible shouldn't be intillectualized, but you better not blindly follow the gov't. because they might try to do something like let homo's marry). They advocate freedom of religion as long as that means they can try to push christianity on non believers. Addictive behaviors are destructive and result in child molestation and abuse. They have no tollerance for destructive behaviors.....I've added (in parentheses) my own interpretations of some of these things based on other readings and arguments I've found. Sorry ya'll I'm doing a research paper and have to talk to someone about my findings to absorb it and work it in...that and just get out my frustrations at some of these views. I mean, I understand people needing a way to structure they're lives, but I'm completely against the idea that one set of values is perfect for everyone on this planet. It shows in families all the time, kids have different values and beliefs than they're parents although they base they're system on what they're parents have tought them... Ugh. I think my brain is going to burst.f

 

[FurryFury]

Heh, I know what you mean!

Being a family that homeschools, you wouldn't believe the crap I see. Even things listed in curriculum catalogs and as "facts."

What I really love is the myriad materials about "fallacies." Said material ALWAYS has fallacies included in them as, you guessed it, "facts."

One thing I saw recently that REALLY made me laugh was a book about how "native" people who eat only "natural" things are healthier and have naturally straight teeth. Well, hey, how about they have little or no health care and live in somewhat brutal societies that don't deal kindly with "differences?"

While I see nothing much wrong with eating natural foods or working harder if that's your thing, I don't think that's the golden key to every societal problem. I think someone has an agenda that puts HIM on top of the heap directing everyone else. I think he likes to keep everyone too busy to think much more than, wow, he is so smart.

But I'm all jaded like that due to how I grew up.

I spend a LOT of time not saying what I really think to these rabid types. It's too bad they aren't as polite, and try to ram their shit down others throats.

Fury

 

[tealsphynx]

Yeah it seems like the people who are against anything but a 'good christian' lifestyle are the loudest most fighting people. I mean, like, I've found issues that people like me who are for the issue (currently samesex marriage) where the websites that are pro it are just stating they're opinion, there's no "write your senator" link. Where as , like, for example, the american family association...they're all for writting senators they even have pre written templates for emailing them. (ok, so I'm using they're templates against them, but it was so nice of them to give out a channel to email a senator, I could do it in paper which seems to be the onlly way people with my viewpoints can, but sabotaging they're templates makes me feel better).

 

[FurryFury]

Yeah it seems like the people who are against anything but a 'good christian' lifestyle are the loudest most fighting people. I mean, like, I've found issues that people like me who are for the issue (currently samesex marriage) where the websites that are pro it are just stating they're opinion, there's no "write your senator" link. Where as , like, for example, the american family association...they're all for writting senators they even have pre written templates for emailing them. (ok, so I'm using they're templates against them, but it was so nice of them to give out a channel to email a senator, I could do it in paper which seems to be the onlly way people with my viewpoints can, but sabotaging they're templates makes me feel better).

LOL!

Try a "real" debate with one of them. They don't know the first thing about backing up their arguments with verifiable facts or even relevant bible passages in MOST cases. They live in a sort of right wing Christian fairy tale land where believing somehow becomes facts and bible passages taken out of context back them up. It's truly shocking.

Fury

 

[tealsphynx]

yes, well in Mark 3:15 it says some junk that really isn't relevent to the argument but damnit it backs up my opinion! LOL. I'm just in all kinds of ornery moods at the moment. I can't wait for my toy to get home. All of this reading the word "lifestyle", regardless that they mean the homosexual lifestyle, is getting me all hot to play.

 

[FurryFury]

yes, well in Mark 3:15 it says some junk that really isn't relevent to the argument but damnit it backs up my opinion! LOL. I'm just in all kinds of ornery moods at the moment. I can't wait for my toy to get home. All of this reading the word "lifestyle", regardless that they mean the homosexual lifestyle, is getting me all hot to play.

Yeah! Go for it!

I got all hot to play during my waxing yesterday.

Sadly my darling was at work when I got back.

Ah well.

Fury

 

[satindesire]

Added in Edit: I want to apologize for sounding defensive...I suppose I'm very sensitive to these kinds of things because of past negative experiences I've had and see others I love had because of their beliefs. I'm not trying to start a fight, merely share -my- side of the tracks. Please believe me when I say I mean no offense.

******************

I don't know how welcome my words will be here, but I'm going to speak up anyway.

Being a heterosexual, Christian Conservative Republican, who also happens to be an advocate for transgendered and homosexual people and true tolerace of religion....AND a practicer of the BDSM lifestyle, one can imagine that conversations I've seen regarding my chosen life and religion can be hurtful and confusing.

There are bigots and fantatics on BOTH sides of the street. Remember that.

Now, onto my little speech.

I believe that this country (Meaning America) protects freedom of speech in the way that it protects speech you may not necessarily like, instead of speech you DO like. It gives EVERYONE, regardless of how hateful, arrogant, or ignorant they are the ability to speak their opinions and also gives everyone else no matter how hateful, arrogant or ignorant they are, the right to say something against those opinions.

Being a Christian is NOT always this butterflies-and-hearts fairy-tale-land that many Non-practicing or Non-Christian people may think it is. In my last job, I recieved a LOT of flak and verbal abuse for my beliefs, which led to me quitting. I didn't preach or push my beliefs on anyone, I didn't leave a Bible in the breakroom or say that the lesbian girl who worked in the department next to mine was going to hell...In fact, I only spoke of it when I was directly ASKED.

A good Christian person tries hard to be accepting of other people's opinions, value systems, and beliefs, no matter what, because in the core of our religion is Love. And that means unconditional love...no matter what. We don't always achieve that, but putting -US- on a higher standard is unfair, IMHO. We're just as human as the next pagan, atheist, or Muslim.

Now, there are a lot of stupid people that'll use ANY excuse to wreak havoc and spread hate in our society, including the Judeo/Christian religion. These people are NOT CHRISTIANS, guys. Not -true- Christians.

Labeling them with the rest of us feels, well...to be honest with you, it's really painful. I've done my best in my life to do what I can to improve the lives of myself, my family and friends, and the people around me. I don't bomb abortion clinics even though I don't believe in abortion, and I don't march around with signs that say "GOD HATES FAGS" on Gay Pride day.

Saying these things is just like saying we're like every man that's used the BDSM world as an excuse for raping and killing a young submissive girl. It's unfair and biased.

 

[Betticus]

It's goth/industrial night at club dedo in El Paso.

The environment should be pretty Christian free.

 

[Aeroil]

Now, there are a lot of stupid people that'll use ANY excuse to wreak havoc and spread hate in our society, including the Judeo/Christian religion. These people are NOT CHRISTIANS, guys. Not -true- Christians.

Why is your interpretation of the bible more valid than theirs? There is no one way to interpret a book, trying to be elitist based on different views of it is pointless.

Now, what may be more accurate to say, is that you follow the tenents of the bible more closely, but that too is pretty jaded, as 'following' the tenents is also based on interpretation, and taking the bible literally is usually not possible or practical.

Now, I'd lecture tealsphynx on her grammar/spelling but I doubt it's a good idea to lecture a frisky frustrated Domme, so, instead.

Worlds

Marvel at the colours of my little world here
for to create it I had to be quite the seer
Made by creation, meld, and borrow
You really can't see it? such a sorrow!

Why would I look at your ghastly world?
When I saw the terrible thing my toes curled
The hues all wrong, the contrast very askew
I am very glad that similar worlds are so few

Of course my world is better, what a foolish query
trying to understand yours just makes me weary
You are a fool to not see this, and rude as well
Leave me be, and do not make me yell

What is that you say? leave you be?
And why does your world threaten me?

Aeroil Taelroca

 

[Xelebes]

Ask me your life and I will curtly fume!

 

[FurryFury]

Satindesire,

If you are as smart and understanding as you sound, then clearly we were not talking about you.

The nut jobs, which, yes, can be found in any group, are clearly the ones we are talking about here.

My remarks were not meant to be offensive to Christians as a group or any individual Christian on this board. I know quite a few decent human beings that happen to belong to that group.

No, those remarks were meant to let off some steam toward those that do push their strange agendas (with little logic if any behind them,) down the throats of those of us who prefer to think for ourselves, Christian or not.

Fury

 

[tealsphynx]

Added in Edit: I want to apologize for sounding defensive...I suppose I'm very sensitive to these kinds of things because of past negative experiences I've had and see others I love had because of their beliefs. I'm not trying to start a fight, merely share -my- side of the tracks. Please believe me when I say I mean no offense.

******************

I don't know how welcome my words will be here, but I'm going to speak up anyway.

Being a heterosexual, Christian Conservative Republican, who also happens to be an advocate for transgendered and homosexual people and true tolerace of religion....AND a practicer of the BDSM lifestyle, one can imagine that conversations I've seen regarding my chosen life and religion can be hurtful and confusing.

There are bigots and fantatics on BOTH sides of the street. Remember that.

Now, onto my little speech.

I believe that this country (Meaning America) protects freedom of speech in the way that it protects speech you may not necessarily like, instead of speech you DO like. It gives EVERYONE, regardless of how hateful, arrogant, or ignorant they are the ability to speak their opinions and also gives everyone else no matter how hateful, arrogant or ignorant they are, the right to say something against those opinions.

Being a Christian is NOT always this butterflies-and-hearts fairy-tale-land that many Non-practicing or Non-Christian people may think it is. In my last job, I recieved a LOT of flak and verbal abuse for my beliefs, which led to me quitting. I didn't preach or push my beliefs on anyone, I didn't leave a Bible in the breakroom or say that the lesbian girl who worked in the department next to mine was going to hell...In fact, I only spoke of it when I was directly ASKED.

A good Christian person tries hard to be accepting of other people's opinions, value systems, and beliefs, no matter what, because in the core of our religion is Love. And that means unconditional love...no matter what. We don't always achieve that, but putting -US- on a higher standard is unfair, IMHO. We're just as human as the next pagan, atheist, or Muslim.

Now, there are a lot of stupid people that'll use ANY excuse to wreak havoc and spread hate in our society, including the Judeo/Christian religion. These people are NOT CHRISTIANS, guys. Not -true- Christians.

Labeling them with the rest of us feels, well...to be honest with you, it's really painful. I've done my best in my life to do what I can to improve the lives of myself, my family and friends, and the people around me. I don't bomb abortion clinics even though I don't believe in abortion, and I don't march around with signs that say "GOD HATES FAGS" on Gay Pride day.

Saying these things is just like saying we're like every man that's used the BDSM world as an excuse for raping and killing a young submissive girl. It's unfair and biased.

labeling in any sence is painful, I'm sorry satindesire. I think there's a big misinterpretation of the bible by these "christian" hate groups. I've known people who are very good christian people and they don't agree with different lifestyles, but they take a live and let live aproach which I find very refreshing. I do fear that if BDSM were acceptable there would be people using it as a hat for abuse, but there's that going on already.

Ok, off the hate group subject. I found the website that lists the "traditional family values" and I got to thinking this morning while in the shower: These values have no tollerance for any type of sexual deviance including, but not limited to sodomy, homosexuality, cross dressing, bdsm, basically, it seems any kink. So they're using this "homosexuals don't have traditional family values" as an argument for why they shouldn't be allowed marriage rights. Well, obviously people into anal sex, oral sex, polyamory, polygamy, bdsm ect. all practice sexual deviency and therefore could be seen as not having traditional family values, does that mean that we shouldn't be allowed to marry either? I mean since we're arguing that certain people aren't "worthy" enough to marry because they would destroy the "sanctity" of marriage. Does my relationship wiht my husband destry the sanctity of amrriage? does the fact that niether of us are of crhistian faith destroy the sanctity of amrriage?

 

[chris9]

Those extremistic Christians are to 'normal' Christians what extremistic Moslems are to 'normal' Moslems.
I've seen many articles and reports where Moslems (including scholars) say that their faith does not allow terroristic attacks, that the extremistic Moslems are not 'true' Moslems. But those terrorists with their extreme views and actions get most of the publicity and make it so that non-Moslems think that it's the Islam that's so violent and allows those killings.

With the same logic the extremistic Christians get the publicity, colour public opinion of non-Christians against all Christians. Not fair, and I understand Satindesire's point. Still that's the impression.

Let me add that from here it seems like all US-Americans have exactly those views, that they all suddenly turned insane and 'Christianistic'. I'm very glad I know some straight thinking Americans.

 

[tealsphynx]

I unfortunately have one of these non-christian "christians" in my family. She's quick to turn off any communication to anyone in the family who doesn't claim to be "christian" She's always pushing people to go to church and doesn't herself, but she watches those "nice televangelists on tv" OHboy.. she's "not' racist, but those damn mexicans and ukranian kids are the biggest problem at her school. She won't travel, she's kinda xenophobic. Like if I wanted her to come here to el paso she wouldn't, too damn close to the border and therefore "run by illegal immigrants" :rollseyes: I think the border culture here is very interesting, sometimes it's frustrating because alot of the locals expect that you're bilingual, and if you don't speak spanish (border spanish) you're prejudice. Sorry, I just got here a few months ago, and I've already got alot on my plate. I'd love to learn the language, but it's just not a realistic goal right now. :sigh: can we just buy an island somewhere and make it BDSMLand or somehting? It's kind of frustrating to believe in the idea of America and to see it being so corrupted by the people that are ment to protect it.