I dare you ...

[impressive]

... to take anything you've written in 1st person POV, convert it to 3rd person POV, and post a snippet in this thread. Don't change anything but the Is, mes, and mys. No added story/plot/description. Just bare bones conversion.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

Part of a work in progress

At the site, he was greeted by a lovely young woman, dressed in a baggy over shirt and yoga pants, very comfortably dressed. She smiled and ushered him to the studio, then left him there to hiswork. He got a lot of smiles, and some desperate pleas, but she was more at ease, relaxed than what he usually encountered. There was a serenity about her.


*** Hmmmmmmmm its weird how it changes the tone. The original piece was almost confessional in tone and this makes it more distant, almost voyeurisitic.***

 

[impressive]

*** Hmmmmmmmm its weird how it changes the tone. The original piece was almost confessional in tone and this makes it more distant, almost voyeurisitic.***

Uh huh.

 

[Guest]

Alright, I'm a little busy trying to finish Saturday's Child, But I understand what you are trying to accomplish. I rewrote "The Striped Shirt" from 2nd person (it was one of the first stories I ever wrote) to first person. Changed the entire feel of the story. So far I have halfway finished one story in third person and I'm not liking the way it feels at all. Everything just seems too detatched. I may redo it in first person before I'm done.

 

[Guest]

She paid the cabbie well and he grinned at her as she ran up to the house. Fumbling a bit with the lock, she went inside, walking into the foyer. She searched several rooms and finally wandered into the kitchen, still calling his name. Where was he?

Then she felt a hand firmly take hold of her upper arm and strong teeth biting on the back of her neck. Goose bumps covered her as he stroked her body with both hands, touching her tits, her waist, her hips. His hands traveled down to her barely covered ass.

"Little one, what do have we here?" he asked, lifting her short skirt.

She sighed and moved back against his questing hands as he cupped her naked ass cheeks, kneading, stroking.

"Naughty, naughty girl," he said into her ear, and she heard the smile in his tone. "In public, wearing such a short skirt, without your panties?" He spanked her gently, teasingly. "Did anyone see you?" he asked.

"The cab driver was watching me very closely," she managed, trembling all over.

"I see," he said, losing some of the smile, and handling her ass more firmly.

"Spread your legs," was the command, and as she did, he wrapped his arms around her, pulling her bare ass hard against his fully clothed body. One hand squeezed her already erect nipples, and she sighed as he began to finger her dripping pussy with the other.

This is from one of my first stories on Lit.

I like the change. That's a great idea, imp. Makes me wanna rewrite it and resubmit with changes.

(Nahhh. That'll never happen. I can't get my newer stuff finished. )

 

[logophile]

She couldn't sleep this morning. It was early, just at day break, and she should have been able to drift easily back into the inky darkness of sleep. But instead, she rested between asleep and awake, half dreaming of being stroked softly.

Slowly she realized that it was him stroking her in this fantasy land and she grew immediately warm and wet. She was laying face down on her bed with legs slightly apart in her favorite dozing position and he was sitting between them. He was carefully running his fingertips up and down the length of her sex and she involuntarily moaned and arched her back towards him.

She wanted to roll over and see his face, see his eyes shining down at her, but when she tried, he gently but firmly placed his hand in the small of her back to indicate that she was to stay where she was.

He continued to pet her, the same way one would pet a kitten behind the ears. She was positively purring under his touch as he slipped his fingers in between her swollen lips and started gently playing with her clit between his index and middle fingers.

In the early morning haze, she grew more and more aroused until she was afraid that her sighs and soft moans would attract attention. She planted her face in her pillow and begged him to continue. He happily obliged, stroking her in exactly the right way. She felt your other hand slowly moving up the inside of her thigh and felt his fingers separate her to find her opening.

As slick as she was, his finger slid right in while his other hand continued working on her hard clit. A second finger joined the first inside her as she shuddered with joy. He always knows just how to stroke and pet and it felt so good to be with him this way, it felt so right, even in her dream. She moaned slightly and heard him sigh in response. Her breath was coming in ragged gasps now. She grew closer and closer to her orgasm. He stayed right where he was and accelerated right on cue and she gave one low moan from her throat as she released right then.

 

[cloudy]

He kicked off his shoes, and made himself comfortable on her bed, then patted the space next to him in invitation. She bounced onto the bed next to him, propped herself up on her elbow to look at him, and felt a silly smile cross her face.

In answer to her smile, he said "What?"

"Oh, well.....um, I'm just smiling cause you're here, that's all. It seems weird."

"Does, doesn't it?" He reached out with one hand and absently played with her hair. "Are you disappointed?"

"No, not at all. Are you?"

"Nope, not a bit." His hand went from her hair to her side, lightly stroking through the cotton of her tee shirt. "Am I making you nervous?'

"No, its not you, it's just the whole...situation, I guess." She stroked his face with her hand.

Kelly pulled her closer, wrapping one arm around her, and kissed her, gently at first. His kiss deepened, and he pulled her hard against him. She could feel his cock, hard against her belly. She felt him deftly undo her bra, and then he pushed her t-shirt up and began lightly teasing her nipple with his tongue and teeth. It took her breath away.

 

[Liar]

Uh... ok.

But what's the occation?

---------------

"Hey, gorgeous," Michael said and gave her his best too-early-in-the-morning grin. "I thought you'd bailed out on me."

She returned his smile with a weary one of her own.

"Now why would I ever do that?"

"Maybe you were in a hurry somewhere, or maybe you got to see me in the buff while you were sober, that ought to scare the bejesus out of anyone."

Jenny sputtered water all over the chair she sat in in a laugh attack that was more endearing than all of the enchantment of yesterday combined. He had to hand it to her, even now, at her most hung over ugliest, she was a marvel just to watch.

"Oh come on," she said. "You're a good looking guy."

"I don't feel like one right now. How's your head?"

She made a face. "Ugh, terrible. Say, do you know any Spanish at all? There are some pills in the bathroom cupboard, but I'll be damned in I can figure out which one is closest to an Aspirin. But here, have some water."

"Thanks," he said, and took the glass from her. Their hands brushed slightly against each other, and that was all it took. He felt a faint surge of excitement through his body. God, what an effect she had on him. "You couldn't look terrible even if you tried."

 

[BlackShanglan]

She was not made as others. This was the rule that had shaped her life. To know herself was to know her difference; the thoughts dawned together. Then she grew, and learned more each day how much and how far she differed from her kind.

Perhaps it was mercy that they were so unlike. Those companions of her youth, so bright and full of promise then, so tired and broken as they must surely be now, would never know what was taken from them. Their captors thought them born to be slaves, for so it had been a thousand years and more, from that moment when first one of their captors set his will upon one of their kind. And perhaps they were right. For she had never met another of her people who seemed even to understand the bondage in which they were held, the servility that was forced upon them. Now and again one would fight – at the first rough touch of the bonds, the feel of a man’s weight pressing down on a frightened young body, the lash of punishment when their will was contested. Then came the screams, the protests, the panting struggle. But there was only one ending. They yielded. In time, all yielded. They were what their captors would make them.

She was not. Herein lay her difference, and very nearly her death.

I knew it would be awful, but it was amazing just how awful and how incredibly destructive to narrative sympathy. I thought about using an early paragraph from the sex scene, but it became instantly obscene, abusive, and repellent. I couldn't post it. But then, a very wise man had already told me that if this was told from any perspective but the female lead's, it would be unreadable. He was right, as he always is.

Shanglan

 

[impressive]

... how incredibly destructive to narrative sympathy.

Precisely!

 

[Alex De Kok]

Here goes mine. From my story, 'Take me by surprise', published under my alter-ego ID, Frederick Carol.

He knew there was something on her mind, she'd been quiet too long, so he wasn't surprised when she spoke.

"Charlie?"

"Yeah?"

"Do you ever think about sex?"

< -- > Despite being used to answering her questions, that one floored him for a moment. He looked across at his friend Ellie, looking for some idea of where she was going with this, but all he could see in her face was honest curiosity. < -- > He probably flushed a little, but he answered her truthfully, as he always did. "Ellie, I'm a guy. Still a teenager fer Chrissake! I think about sex just about all the time."

I had to take four words out, indicated by < -- > The first pair was 'I confess' and the second pair, 'I guess'. I couldn't fit them in seamlessly, but what's left flows okay, I think.

Alex

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I can't do it. The stories I write in 1st person have to be in 1st person, and the ones in 3rd person have to be in 3rd person. POV is never a random choice that can be changed like that.

 

[Liar]

Thought I posted this, but obviuosly it didn't come through, so here is another attempt:

Just exactly is the epiphany I am supposed to have here? I don't get it.

A story is not just the plot and the lines, it's also how it's told. If you change anything, be it POV, protagonist, vocabulary, style or plot, you'll of course have something with an entirely different feel to it. Nothing surprising there.

 

[impressive]

Thought I posed this, but obviuosly it didn't come through, so here is another attempt:

Just exactly is the epiphany I am supposed to have here? I don't get it.

A story is not just the plot and the lines, it's also how it's told. If you change anything, be it POV, protagonist, vocabulary, style or plot, you'll of course have something with an entirely different feel to it. Nothing surprising there.

Not so much an epiphany ... but rather, an exposure of the weaknesses and pitfalls inherent to 1st person POV. I'll never publish 1st person POV material again without putting it to this test.

If the conversion "flattens" the prose, then I've not written it well.

 

[Liar]

Not so much an epiphany ... but rather, an exposure of the weaknesses and pitfalls inherent to 1st person POV. I'll never publish 1st person POV material again without putting it to this test.

If the conversion "flattens" the prose, then I've not written it well.

Um...why? Sorry, but I'm not understanding that either.

There are things you can do in 1st that sounds stupid in 3rd, but the same thing is true the other way around. The styles and boundries to what you can and can't do are different. I think that if you do it that way, you risk ending up with prose that only fits the common denominator of both POV's. Sounds awfully dull to me.

If it makes you happy, I'm not going to stop you, but I fail to see the point in limiting what you do in one POV because it wouldn't work in another.

True, there are weaknesses and pitfalls, but also strengths and...trying to find the opposite of pitfalls...elevators. One thing I sometimes do when writing in 1st is to let the protagonist digress in his own narration, then meta reflect over his poor storytelling skills. It brings life to the character and can when it's done well increase the reader's empathy for him and thus to the story. Try doing that in 3rd person and it just...sucks. That doesn't mean that it was a bad idea in a 1st person story.

#L


Edited to add: Have you tried conversing something the other way around? I haven't. Just asking.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Not so much an epiphany ... but rather, an exposure of the weaknesses and pitfalls inherent to 1st person POV. I'll never publish 1st person POV material again without putting it to this test.

If the conversion "flattens" the prose, then I've not written it well.

Same as Liar, I just don't understand that. 1st person POV has nothing to do with 3rd person. It has different techniques and approaches that obviously don't translate from one to the other. But that doesn't mean it has more or less weaknesses and pitfalls...

 

[impressive]

I don't disagree with either of you -- nor am I dissing 1st person POV. However, the conversion DOES serve to identify areas (if, indeed, they exist) which are in need of attention -- much like chewing one of those dye tablets shows you where you need to pay more attention when brushing your teeth.

 

[Liar]

I don't disagree with either of you -- nor am I dissing 1st person POV. However, the conversion DOES serve to identify areas (if, indeed, they exist) which are in need of attention -- much like chewing one of those dye tablets shows you where you need to pay more attention when brushing your teeth.

K... I'll just have to take your word for it. Could you perhaps show me some example of this, and how it works? Not trying to dis your methods either, but if they are indeed useful, I want to understand them. (so that I can steal them and pass it on to the other students on my creative writing course next term, as if it wasd my idea, muahahaha)

I understand how changing perspective might make passages in a text come out as bad. What I don't understand is why this makes them bad in the first place. If you hope to uncover invisible flaws, I think that all you'll do is to create "spook flaws" that weren't there in the first place, stuff that is just not compatible with the new perspective.

Or is this for when you have a scene, and something strike you as odd, but you can't figure out what it is that makes it feel wrong?

Like an x-ray. You might discover things that are wrong, but you'll have to remember that the things that are right looks pretty freaky too.

#L

 

[impressive]

Or is this for when you have a scene, and something strike you as odd, but you can't figure out what it is that makes it feel wrong?

That's a good way to put it.

 

[Remec]

... to take anything you've written in 1st person POV, convert it to 3rd person POV, and post a snippet in this thread. Don't change anything but the Is, mes, and mys. No added story/plot/description. Just bare bones conversion.

Alright, I'll give it a shot. Unfortunately, most of what I could lay my hands on is originally a sort of noirish stuff that I'm not sure translates well. But, we'll see. <g>

This is from a bit that ran in SRP, the Broken Wing Truck Stop and Casino.

**********​

It was another early morning in Broken Wing. Or late night, depending on your frame of reference. A frame of reference isn't always a big deal out here. Too many people who live, or think they can live, a life using the casinos as a guide. Always looking to match those sevens or bars, heck, even matching fruit pays enough to keep playing.

Of course, most of them eventually come to realize that they have to fall back on something else. Whether it's looks, or contacts, or the savvy it takes to run a game...or any of the many little skills a town needs to keep itself going, 24/7...even a town like this one. And, that guy, he's not bad looking...but in a sturdy, rugged, say-aren't-you-a-stuntman sort of way...and he's done enough of that sort of work in the past. Heck, if a bus comes in or Elliot needs more bodies in suits keeping an eye on things, Carlo knows he can usually give him a call.

He tries to keep it to watching though. Had enough headbanging, armtwisting, and knee-breaking for whole lifetime of goons. He's just one guy. One guy who ain't gettin' any younger, and needs to get a bit more out of his day. Or night, as the case is. So, he fell back on skills. It's funny. His Uncle Seamus always said if he kept a well-oiled and dustfree set of tools around, there'd always be someone who'd find a use for them...and him.

Him...Colin Fitzgerald Dunn...although, not so many old-school Irish where he grew up...especially not ones like him, with the classic redhair, green eyes, and freckles up the wazoo. So he was Mick...later, he was *the* Mick. Oh well, could be worse, they might have called him Lucky. God he hated that damn leprechaun.

So, anyways, now he's here for who knows how long. Considering the number of breakdowns and abandoned cars Broken Wing gets, probably right up until retirement and then some. Just this morning he had to go get a hunk of junk from the casino's lot. Funny, the work order said it was a breakdown sometime in last day or so...where's the sheet? Oh well...this junker looks like it did more than breakdown, and been there a few days 'cause he remembered seeing it.

Just take it to the yard. Maybe call Elliot sometime after sunrise. Swear there are days you'd think that man never sleeps, but you figure breakfast is as good a time as any to catch him sitting down and unoccupied with anything else for a few minutes.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I'm with Liar. To me, a scene that doesn't work when converted to third person not necessarily a bad scene; it may very well be one that inherently needed to be in first person. I know that the entirety of "Will" would read absolutely horribly if put in third person. I don't think that that means it's all swill (although of course feel free to differ) but that, as Lauren says, some stories have to be written in a specific POV to make sense or to communicate the thing that's most interesting about the story.

I would especially question whether one ought to set as a goal a scene that reads equally well in first or third person. Part of the joy and power of POV control is knowing that some things work better in one or the other perspective. In fact, I might go so far as to argue that a scene that works equally well in first or third person POV might not be making the best use of either. That's why I posted the passage I did; I knew that it would be wretched, and I thought that perhaps the goal was to illustrate the power and significance of POV.

Shanglan

 

[impressive]

... and I thought that perhaps the goal was to illustrate the power and significance of POV.

Shanglan

Of course ... and the same can be said for conversions in the other direction (from 3rd to 1st).

Imp is going to start posting in the 3rd person because she did a horrible job of communicating her intent in 1st.

Her goal is NOT to write material that works from any POV. (What fun is that?) Her goal is to identify areas that aren't working, and she still thinks that such conversion jolts the author out of the zone just enough to make those areas visible.

 

[Guest]

Of course ... and the same can be said for conversions in the other direction (from 3rd to 1st).

Imp is going to start posting in the 3rd person because she did a horrible job of communicating her intent in 1st.

Her goal is NOT to write material that works from any POV. (What fun is that?) Her goal is to identify areas that aren't working, and she still thinks that such conversion jolts the author out of the zone just enough to make those areas visible.

I am wondering if her has been working too hard on the Anthology?



It's a grand experiment, and one offered to give us a swift kick in the butt to reevaluate our writing, I think. What is wrong with that?

 

[impressive]

I am wondering if her has been working too hard on the Anthology?



It's a grand experiment, and one offered to give us a swift kick in the butt to reevaluate our writing, I think. What is wrong with that?

 

[Liar]

That's a good way to put it.

Well then, that's always a good reason to try on different spectacles to see if the problem is clearer in a different light. Go ahead and perspective swap to your heart's content.