I can't be the first person to think of this, but...

[AwkwardMD]

Has this forum ever tried to do anything that involved attempting to get fellow authors to read and vote on each others stories?

I have a Toys and Masturbation story that has been on the front page of that hub for almost 6 weeks. While the readership is low and the viewcount has been steady but slow, the votes were problematic. It had a 4.42 rating on 28 votes up until today, when a sweep moved it to 4.96.

The damage that a 1 bomb can do is only really mitigated by volume. They need to be drowned out, and that's difficult.

Given that this forum is for authors, and that we can sympathize with each others struggles in this respect, would anyone else be interested in a getting together all communist-style and voting? Obviously, no one should vote blindly, and that would likely mean asking a lot of each other in terms of reading, but would it be worth it? Would anyone else be willing to try?

 

[ElectricBlue]

AwkwardMD, I have a feeling this suggestion (and I see you raising it as a defence against the trolls) might bring out some of the history of the Author's Hangout. Before my time, but there remains a lingering legacy of writer's cabins and writer's cabals. It is ugly, very ugly indeed.

Others may run some of the history (if they do, please keep it civilized, or this thread won't last long). The National Nude Day thread from around this time in 2015 was the last time I saw the toxicity that can erupt. I suggest you go find that thread and read. It was my introduction to the world of contest rigging, which I knew nothing about. It's not pretty.

I for one would never do what you suggest. My writing must survive on its merits. And besides, the trolls might well outnumber those willing. And another besides, if you have to run against the trolls, you've just let them win.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I'm approaching this purely from a feedback standpoint, and because I tend to write in low-readership genres.

It would be above board, public, and open.

 

[RejectReality]

It used to be commonplace, especially in contests, before the paranoid decided that any author supporting another author by reading, voting, and commenting on their stories was guilty of incestuous backscratching and thus deserved perpetual scorn and harassment.

Here's an example:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=428901

It displays both the best of Lit Authors supporting fellow authors and the difficulty of maintaining an organized reading and reviewing project.

I doubt you'll be able to get anything of this nature off the ground. It was difficult enough in an environment where RVC ( Read, Vote, Comment ) was the encouraged norm. In the poisonous, paranoid atmosphere of today, nobody's going to want to risk making themselves a target.

 

[CyranoJ]

On the upside, the poisonous, paranoid atmosphere really consists of a few select people whose freedom to attack and vilify authors in AH has been noticeably constrained, for the overall better of the environment. (And AH really is noticeably better than it was when I came here.) So maybe it could work again.

 

[Handley_Page]

I'm approaching this purely from a feedback standpoint, and because I tend to write in low-readership genres.

It would be above board, public, and open.

Oh, these things always are; until the Cabal of Trolls gets going and tears your work apart.
We've seen good authors pack it in and take down their work because some joker could not be polite or civilised.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I don't write for contests, and the only thing I'm interested in is self-improvement. I'm not even asking for comments. Just votes.

Don't let the terrorists win.

 

[CyranoJ]

As it happens I already do make a point of trying to read and vote on stories where I can, at least of those authors I follow, as a courtesy. I don't commonly manage to comment but I'm resolved to do that more.

 

[Handley_Page]

I don't write for contests, and the only thing I'm interested in is self-improvement. I'm not even asking for comments. Just votes.

Don't let the terrorists win.

Welcome to the chaos known as the AH.
You'll find a nice brew available (ask Rolf the Barman) in the Naked Lounge and an excellent cup of coffee in the Reading Room.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Then again, there is the story feedback forum.

 

[8letters]

Has this forum ever tried to do anything that involved attempting to get fellow authors to read and vote on each others stories?

If you're asking people to read and vote, I think that's quite acceptable on non-contest stories.

I have a Toys and Masturbation story that has been on the front page of that hub for almost 6 weeks. While the readership is low and the viewcount has been steady but slow, the votes were problematic. It had a 4.42 rating on 28 votes up until today, when a sweep moved it to 4.96.

The damage that a 1 bomb can do is only really mitigated by volume. They need to be drowned out, and that's difficult.

If it's the story I think it is, I'd pull the rating down by voting for it. If you're asking people to read and vote a 5, that's not acceptable.

There's no way to tell if a low vote is done maliciously. If it is someone's honest opinion, then "drowning it out" is inappropriate.

Given that this forum is for authors, and that we can sympathize with each others struggles in this respect, would anyone else be interested in a getting together all communist-style and voting? Obviously, no one should vote blindly, and that would likely mean asking a lot of each other in terms of reading, but would it be worth it? Would anyone else be willing to try?

A huge problem with this is that there isn't a lot of stories on LitE that I want to read all the way to the end. As you're talking about the less popular categories, they have even less appeal to the average reader/author than the main categories (hence why they are less popular).

I'm approaching this purely from a feedback standpoint, and because I tend to write in low-readership genres.

Again, it sounds like you want to pump up your rating. From a feedback standpoint, rating is just one metric in measuring the reception to your story.

I don't write for contests, and the only thing I'm interested in is self-improvement. I'm not even asking for comments. Just votes.

How would votes help you improve? Comments can help. Votes? Don't see it.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Then again, there is the story feedback forum.

Feedback from me is a 2000 word essay. Reading something for the purpose of giving feedback engages critical thinking that would otherwise be turned off.

Also I already post there.

 

[AwkwardMD]

If it's the story I think it is, I'd pull the rating down by voting for it. If you're asking people to read and vote a 5, that's not acceptable.

I'm not looking for an echo chamber. I don't need or want mindless votes. If you'd give me a three and really mean it, that's worth more to me than an empty 5. I'm surprised you didn't vote on it.

There's no way to tell if a low vote is done maliciously. If it is someone's honest opinion, then "drowning it out" is inappropriate.

One person's opinion is always worth exactly the same in a crowd, and in volume that opinion usually averages out. My stories that are like 4.6 with 70 votes tend to gain votes in a pattern like 5, 5, 4, 5, 5, 4, 5, 5, 4, because the story is what it is.

A huge problem with this is that there isn't a lot of stories on LitE that I want to read all the way to the end. As you're talking about the less popular categories, they have even less appeal to the average reader/author than the main categories (hence why they are less popular).

Your inability to finish something you don't like, and your inability to appreciate the things you don't like, would not make you a great candidate. I can't imagine, given your reasoning here, why you would willingly subject yourself to other people's stories and waste your time.

Again, it sounds like you want to pump up your rating. From a feedback standpoint, rating is just one metric in measuring the reception to your story.

You're looking at it backwards. My scores are already being deflated, actively and willfully lowered, and I am engaging in dialogue to counteract that. I'm not alone in having my scores lowered. This is a conversation worth having.

How would votes help you improve? Comments can help. Votes? Don't see it.

Reading the works of others helps me improve. It helps you too.

 

[LeandraNyx]

I mean, I get it. It sucks to have your stories downvoted to hell, especially by trolls, but I'm not sure there's much of a solution beyond the sweeps already being done by Lit staff. It's just the reality of the internet that if you put yourself out there, you're going to occasionally--and, sometimes, more than occasionally--have to deal with unpleasant people doing and saying unpleasant things. It sucks, but it's a sacrifice you need to be willing to make if you're interested in putting yourself out there. If you're really so inclined, you could always turn off voting and/or comments and avoid the trolls altogether.

As for starting up an author's book club...meh. I already regularly check out the categories and authors that interest me and if I find a story worth reading, I'm already inclined to vote & comment. Folks who want more detailed criticism can always go to the Feedback Forum to request it. Generally speaking, there's only so many hours in a day and I'd rather not spend it reading and rating stories I don't already have an interest in, just because they've been written by authors who frequent the forums.

 

[LadyMireille]

Oh, these things always are; until the Cabal of Trolls gets going and tears your work apart.
We've seen good authors pack it in and take down their work because some joker could not be polite or civilised.

I can see how that can happen. No one wants to be berated, especially because many of us are not trained as a professional writer. Constructive, kind feedback is helpful. Sardonic, rude comments just cut a person down. And why? We are spending our free time writing for free!

I agree, AwkwardMD... I think it would be nice if authors could support each other.

 

[TxRad]

Years ago we had a story review thread. Find a story you liked, post it in the review thread with the reason or reasons you liked it. As people left for one reason or another, the thread fell into disuse.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Posting a story in an under read category has its inherent advantages and disadvantages. The same with posting to a very popular category or submitting a story to one of the frequent contests. If your goal is to be read by as many people as possible, you have to choose from one of two paths 1) Write for a popular category, or, 2) Enter a story in a contest.

Contest stories receive special attention with a link to a very short list of stories submitted for the contest appearing on the homepage. I highly encourage every Lit author to participate if they want to increase their readership.

 

[rutger5]

Low reader genres by their very nature will attract less readers (and logically less votes) than more popular genres. You say you want honest voting and I accept you mean that but as 8letters said that may lead to your score going down not up. You gave an example of a pattern that you tend to receive but that was from readers/voters who deliberately sought out your story, whether from already liking your work, liking genre the story is in, or being intrigued by title/story description.

If you were to assemble a writer voting circle there would be a good chance that some members wouldn't like certain story themes, like non-con or incest and their votes would reflect that or they wouldn't read/vote on which defeats the purpose. Also it is fine to say vote your conscience but if someone is reading/voting on 15-20 other writer's stories and for whatever reason your ratings aren't improving what would be the point? It could lead to quid pro quo voting or people dropping out.

Also like LeandraNyx said many already read/vote on stories that attract them and there is finite time available to all. I don't want to read or vote on just because a writer hangs out in AH though I have read some works from regulars here.

Feedback forum is a good resource and it's why I read the story you referenced and to be honest I probably would have passed your story by otherwise as it isn't one that would have jumped out at me normally. I think my story with lowest reads is superior to other stories of mine that have done better but it's in erotic horror and I accept that the majority of readers that come to this site aren't looking for that kind of story, even those that like my stuff in general and follow me.

The site has a lot of readers which is good but they are going to read what they want to and writers are the same. Trying to organize them isn't going to work, I think, for those that have good read counts aren't going to be swayed into reading a bunch of stories they aren't interested in for what amounts to a couple handfuls of votes. And if others thought voting circle was trying to rig things vote wise then it would be more likely to cause harm than good, human nature being what it is.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Stories of the writer's cabal are still too fresh. There are people here with hate and jealousy issues. It won't get off the ground because of the previous bad history of a few sucky individuals.

Plus... let's face it, we are authors. We know a thing or two about writing. If I were involved I'd be inclined to give honest feedback and a lot of 4s - and around here, a 4 is a downvote. I find it better to vote very rarely, and not on people I know from AH.

Scores tend to seek a reasonable level over time - it can take years, but the 1-voting morons tend to pile in early and rarely go after old stories. The simple solution, easily said if not not easily learned, is not to take scores seriously (and I would say, also don't enter contests). I'm not writing for 5s - I'm writing for people who give me 5s. Once you can see it that way it's a whole different site.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Stubborn horses! The water is right there!

I'm not sure why you guys can't see that if we gave each other 3's and 4's, that STILL helps average out a 1, but oh well.

 

[RejectReality]

You're never really going to be able to average out 1s with something like this. As people have mentioned, it's going to take a huge pool of dedicated reviewers to garner enough votes to make a difference, because most won't feel comfortable voting on a story for one reason or another.

The only real solution to 1-bombers is time and production. Keep writing and posting. Yes, it also works in low readership categories. The whole of my production as Darkniciad is in Sci-Fi & Fantasy, Erotic Horror, Chain Stories, and Humor and Satire. I've build up a large enough readership to counteract those early bombs despite sometimes going years between releasing new stories now.

Stick to it and concentrate your efforts on dreaming up that next story, rather than worrying about the one that's already out in the wild. The wounds will heal in time.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm not sure why you guys can't see that if we gave each other 3's and 4's, that STILL helps average out a 1, but oh well.

A vote always pulls the average closer to the number that you voted. If 1-bombing has dragged your score into the low 4s, me voting 4 will pull it even lower.

If you are hoping for a toplist or a red H, or anything else that requires getting higher than 4.0, the only kind of vote that helps you get there is a 5.

If your story's been bombed so heavily that it's below 4, then 4s will pull it up slightly - but never higher than a 4.0, which is still pretty bad on this site. And once the bombs get swept, the 4s that remain will be pulling the score down.

 

[sr71plt]

but never higher than a 4.0, which is still pretty bad on this site.

The real problem here, I think, is the prevalence of this belief, given all the games that can be played with voting on this site. I posit that there are a ton of good stories here that aren't ranked above 4.0 for some reason that has nothing to do with the quality of the story content--and if readers will do their shopping on something more lenient than "if it's rating below a 4.0, don't even look at it further," they won't be missing a whole lot of good stories.

 

[NotWise]

The real problem here, I think, is the prevalence of this belief, given all the games that can be played with voting on this site. I posit that there are a ton of good stories here that aren't ranked above 4.0 for some reason that has nothing to do with the quality of the story content--and if readers will do their shopping on something more lenient than "if it's rating below a 4.0, don't even look at it further," they won't be missing a whole lot of good stories.

There may be a lot of good stories rated below 4.0. There are also a lot of bad stories rated below 4.0. What are readers supposed to do? Read everything?

 

[ElectricBlue]

There may be a lot of good stories rated below 4.0. There are also a lot of bad stories rated below 4.0. What are readers supposed to do? Read everything?

Seeing all scores for a writer's story file generally gives you an uninformed hint as to the likely quality of their writing. Then take the genre into account, and if still curious, check the total number of views, faves, and you can quickly decide. The first hundred words will confirm it. It's like a Gallup poll, mostly right most of the time, spectacularly wrong some of the time (I'm looking at you, Theresa May). But here on Lit it's evolved into its own meaning, how you interpret that is up to the individual. It's imprecise, but it's the only filter available. Truth is, there's probably more dross than gold.

What astonishes me are the lengths of some folks' faves list! How on earth do they find the time to read it all?