I’m surprised that we haven’t seen more of Jesus’ early works…

[SINthysist]

Tables, chairs, and wooden chests…



I’ve been watching Antiques Roadshow on PBS and keep expecting to hear, “Yes, by cracky, that’s an authentic breadbox. See, the fish logo here, on the bottom. It might as well read Jesus H. Christ…”

 

[Siren]

 

[StondTmplPilot]

*runs into the room huffing and puffing*

I knew it! she beat me again!

 

[DannyBoyUK]

Joking apart, for a guy who influenced the next 2000 years to such an extent, we know very little about him.

The Bible has his birth, one anecdote about him talking to rabbis as a smart-ass kid, then he is in his 30s (ish) being baptised. Even the sum total of the rest of the stories would come to less than six months (including the famous 40 days and nights when he did fuck all apart from get tempted by the devil)

And it isnt an answer to say that was the literary trend of the era - if Julius Caesar farted, there's a record of it.

What else did the prick from Nazareth actually do ?

 

[Siren]

 

[StondTmplPilot]

Joking apart, for a guy who influenced the next 2000 years to such an extent, we know very little about him.

The Bible has his birth, one anecdote about him talking to rabbis as a smart-ass kid, then he is in his 30s (ish) being baptised. Even the sum total of the rest of the stories would come to less than six months (including the famous 40 days and nights when he did fuck all apart from get tempted by the devil)

And it isnt an answer to say that was the literary trend of the era - if Julius Caesar farted, there's a record of it.

What else did the prick from Nazareth actually do ?

Hey, I was under the impression he was a darn nice guy!

But, to answer your question, I have no idea!

 

[Siren]

 

[DannyBoyUK]

There are various "apocraphyl" texts but even those more or less repeat what we already know.

Even including those, there is still very very little on record about him.

I am an atheist but I believe he existed. He must have made a lot more speeches, visited a lot of other places.........and made some fucking great pieces of period furniture !

 

[JazzManJim]

And it isnt an answer to say that was the literary trend of the era - if Julius Caesar farted, there's a record of it.

What else did the prick from Nazareth actually do ?

Man, that last line was really, really offensive. I'm going to try to be nice.

The historian Josephus (as I remember the spelling. It's been a while since I've gotten his books down from my shelf) was perhaps the foremost documenter of the events of his time and he writes quite a bit of the historical events which involved Jesus. Much of his writing is used in scholoarly works to corroborate the events written about int he Gospels. It also helps tack down definitive dates for various scenes in the New Testament.

However, from a Biblical standpoint, it's not particularly important to know what Jesus did before he publicly assumed his own ministry. It's backstory which might be intellectualy interesting, but not particularly so, spiritually.

 

[DannyBoyUK]

But did he ever assume his own ministry ?

Even in the Bible when people tell him he is the son of God, his answer is often one of bafflement. I am sure, JMJ , will know about the doctrine of the messianic secret. I think it IS important for people to know more about the person they worship,the person in whose name wars have been fought and thousands persecuted.

The few fragments we have in the NT should not be the foundation for a worldwide philosophy.

 

[EX-Member]

tenth post...

 

[JazzManJim]

But did he ever assume his own ministry ?

Even in the Bible when people tell him he is the son of God, his answer is often one of bafflement. I am sure, JMJ , will know about the doctrine of the messianic secret. I think it IS important for people to know more about the person they worship,the person in whose name wars have been fought and thousands persecuted.

The few fragments we have in the NT should not be the foundation for a worldwide philosophy.

Sure he did. His baptism, which was the real beginning of the history we had of him, was his taking of the ministry. From there to his cricifixion three years later we have a pretty darned good run-down of what he was doing. I've seen secular biographies that have done far worse a job.

It is true that when people asked him if he was the Son of God, he would turn their questions around on them. However, he was hardly baffled. He repeatedly affirmed his position as Messiah and was pretty unequivocal about it. That's why he was murdered.

I know what I need to know about him. I know more about him than the Muslim do about Allah or the Buddhist about Buddha from both the Bible and the historical texts.

 

[teddybear4play]

The few fragments we have in the NT should not be the foundation for a worldwide philosophy.

Why not? The whole point of the philosophy is that Christ was crucified, died, and rose again. What He did when He was 19 is somewhat irrelevant.

Julius Caesar was well documented because he was the emperor of Rome. Jesus Christ may have been the Son of God, but nobody thought to document His activities until His ministry.

And it's not like there were A&E "Biography" or "E! True Stories" reporters hanging around and asking all of Jesus' friends and relatives for details of His life as a child.

TB4p

 

[DannyBoyUK]

You and I are in a minority Jim that we have actually read other texts - many Christians havent read the Bible.

A difference with Islam is that the prophet M only stated that he was reciting the word of Allah (one heck of a memory feat I agree) - the Bible doesnt actually claim to be the word of God. There is therefore arguably more justification in people who call themselves Islamic fundamentalists than those who try to interpret the Bible in a literal way (I'm not for one moment putting you in that category, Jim)

 

[DannyBoyUK]

Did he die on the cross, though, teddy ?

How long was he up there ?

Compare that with texts that record the average time for a person being crucified to die.

 

[JazzManJim]

the Bible doesnt actually claim to be the word of God.

Actually, it does.

Unfortunately, you're going to have to stick me among the folks that believe that an omnipotent God is plenty capable of getting a book accurately published.

 

[DannyBoyUK]

Jim - it's a collection of accounts, poems, parables - it includes contradictions (and why not ?) - Jesus corrects and alters what were instructions in the OT - my point was that unlike the Koran it is not the be all and end all recitation from above nor does it claim to be.

St Jerome made margin notes several hundred years after Christ which were later incorporated into the main texts

The early evangelists were having to operate under the auspices of the Roman Empire so had to be very wary of the publication they were promoting - discretion had to be the better part of their valour.

(again I am not pushing you into this category Jim) - why is it that those who take a literal view of the Bible ignore the fact that Jesus himself used allegories (parables) to teach his message - could not many other parts of the Bible themselves be parables ?

 

[teddybear4play]

Did he die on the cross, though, teddy ?

How long was he up there ?

Compare that with texts that record the average time for a person being crucified to die.

Not many people got the cross and lived.

I don't know how long Jesus was up there, but also consider He was flogged and forced to walk with the cross for a spell, then to top it off he had a spear stabbed into his side.

So yeah, I think He died.

TB4p

 

[DannyBoyUK]

His fate was shared by many

Yet he died in about a tenth of the time

And his body allowed to be taken away by a devout follower where there was ample time to be nursed back to health.

And seeing as he was a wanted man, it would have hardly been a good idea for the disciples to say "Hey folks he aint really dead"


Let's remember that the Bible is the same book that thought the sun and moon went around the earth, that overlooks the existence of dinosaurs etc etc

Wake up and smell the roses, peeps.

 

[JazzManJim]

Jim - it's a collection of accounts, poems, parables - it includes contradictions (and why not ?) - Jesus corrects and alters what were instructions in the OT - my point was that unlike the Koran it is not the be all and end all recitation from above nor does it claim to be.

(again I am not pushing you into this category Jim) - why is it that those who take a literal view of the Bible ignore the fact that Jesus himself used allegories (parables) to teach his message - could not many other parts of the Bible themselves be parables ?

When Jesus used parables, he always prefaced them with very certain language to indicate that they were parables. When prophets had visions, etc, they were prefaced as such. For the rest, yes, I take it literally unless it says otherwise.

For me it's a pretty simple thought process. I believe there's an all-powerful God who created everything. I believe that he intended to leave a document for us as a guide for our life and the plan for how we get into Heaven. I believe that document is The Bible. So if I believe in an all-powerful God I have to believe that he can get to us what he intends. That's not such a horrible stretch on my part. I know that it assumes something you don't necessarily believe, and that's cool. BUt if you, for sake of the demonstration, accept the initial hypothesis as true, the rest isn't so tough to follow, right?

And as for what Jesus revised, that's easy enough. He was announcing a New Testament - a new pact between God and Man. He had the authority do so, being God Himself, so that's not really a problem. Basically it went something along these lines, "In the past, your forefathers were ruled by the Law so as to demonstrate to you how you are utterly incapable of following the Law perfectly. I now bring you a new covenant - that of Grace. Without God's Grace you can not attain Heaven because you are imperfect." Essentially it was a continuation of soemthing which had begun back then, and had been alluded to often enough in the Old Testament anyhow.

 

[DannyBoyUK]

So the carbon-dated fossils and dinosaurs are just a satanic plot to test our faith ?

 

[Starfish]

Have any of you heard the Tenacious D song... Jesus Ranch.


OMG! I see Jesus all shroomin while doing some nice beveling work.

 

[Azwed]

A wise man somewhere once said, "Don't argue religion with the religious."

Hey wait I said that

 

[Starfish]

*stares at Azwed's av*

You said what? I am sorry, I can't seem to hear you. My eyes are in neuro overload and shorted out my audiovox.

 

[Azwed]

*stares at Azwed's av*

You said what? I am sorry, I can't seem to hear you. My eyes are in neuro overload and shorted out my audiovox.

The full sized one is in a thread that is just not getting any loving at all starfishy.