Hypothetical question

[estragon]

sr71, Of course writers push the envelope and try to get creative. And management rightly wants writers here to eschew that level of creativity. I say "rightly" because it's management who has the biggest dog in this fight. Literotica.com is, I hope, profitable enough for management to keep this site open; it's the only place I can get published and want to get published. As for the creative writers, if they think they can put a fastball off the outside corner and get away with it, they will. But as Hegel said, every idea carries within it the seeds of its own destruction.

 

[lovecraft68]

Beyond that, I think the whole reason that people post questions/possible scenarios like this is that they want to write underage--that it's the underage seekers who are their target audience--and that they want to see how they can circumvent the rules here. It's the underage that is what's important to them, not any other plot element.

I don't see wasting a whole thread discussing around what is obviously what they are trying to do.

I have no desire to read or write about 12 year olds having sex. However having said that I would for the sake of realism think that in the incest or first time section like to portray slightly younger because lets face it that is when siblings would hook up and not many are 18 over for their first time. I do abide by the rules as it is not that big of a deal to me-although age of consent in many states now is 16 not 18- The only time I had an underage issues is the one I mentioned in the earlier post where I did portray the brother as 16 but in a non sexual situation. I was simply trying to foreshadow the eventual sex by showing where and how their attraction started.
They booted it so I have not repeated that mistake but I guess that is what I get for trying to write something other than "sis looked hot so why not"
I agree that some authors especially in incest are age fixated-youbadboy especially-and do worry that sooner or later one of them is going ot screw it up for everyone else. I read a story on here about a girl described as having "budding" breasts. That word instantly conjured up the image of a very very young girl I stopped reading at that point.

SR perhaps you can answer a serious question for me on this and some other things not allowed here or in other erotic sites. Fiction gets away with anything. Underage, bestiality, rape, necrophilia etc... erotica cannot. Is erotica not fiction? Don't we make all this stuff up? Does the "hardcore incest sex make it different than VC Andrews incest dynasty? Just asking as I just don't get where the line is drawn.

 

[Verdad]

SR perhaps you can answer a serious question for me on this and some other things not allowed here or in other erotic sites. Fiction gets away with anything. Underage, bestiality, rape, necrophilia etc... erotica cannot. Is erotica not fiction? Don't we make all this stuff up? Does the "hardcore incest sex make it different than VC Andrews incest dynasty? Just asking as I just don't get where the line is drawn.

This is a bit simplistic, but consider these two sentences:

1) “Child molestation is a sad and vicious crime.”
2) “Just look how great, fun, and sexy child molestation is!”

Now imagine both sentences stretched to novels, and there you have a novel about child molestation and a piece of kiddie porn.

 

[sr71plt]

sr71, Of course writers push the envelope and try to get creative.

This issue is in trying to pretend it's not what it is.

 

[sr71plt]

SR perhaps you can answer a serious question for me on this and some other things not allowed here or in other erotic sites. Fiction gets away with anything. Underage, bestiality, rape, necrophilia etc... erotica cannot. Is erotica not fiction? Don't we make all this stuff up? Does the "hardcore incest sex make it different than VC Andrews incest dynasty? Just asking as I just don't get where the line is drawn.

I think by "fiction," you mean commercial mainstream fiction--because, yes, both are fiction. They get away with it (to the extent that they do) in the mainstream because they aren't putting it straight into a venue predicated on purient interest (i.e., a porn site)--where the reader is coming to read the act more than the story. The story they are putting forth is (they will claim) a bigger one than the purient acts it includes, which are only there to substantiate the greater story. And when they get close to the edges, they do, in fact, start picking up flak--as you are doing with examples of it here.

The authors in the mainstream undoubtedly will say also that they start with the story--and pyschological point to the story--and then put in what serves that, whereas the pornographer will start with the act and then consider what fluff goes around that to make it sort of a story. I won't bother to even think about what is true/false about that (because it doesn't bother me that much)--but most of what I've seen in hypothetical "can I get away with . . . ?" questions here on underage pretty obviously start off with "I want to titilate with underage" and go on to "how can I get away with pretending that's not the focus so that I can get around the site's ban on the material?"

 

[lovecraft68]

I think by "fiction," you mean commercial mainstream fiction--because, yes, both are fiction. They get away with it (to the extent that they do) in the mainstream because they aren't putting it straight into a venue predicated on purient interest (i.e., a porn site)--where the reader is coming to read the act more than the story. The story they are putting forth is (they will claim) a bigger one than the purient acts it includes, which are only there to substantiate the greater story. And when they get close to the edges, they do, in fact, start picking up flak--as you are doing with examples of it here.

The authors in the mainstream undoubtedly will say also that they start with the story--and pyschological point to the story--and then put in what serves that, whereas the pornographer will start with the act and then consider what fluff goes around that to make it sort of a story. I won't bother to even think about what is true/false about that (because it doesn't bother me that much)--but most of what I've seen in hypothetical "can I get away with . . . ?" questions here on underage pretty obviously start off with "I want to titilate with underage" and go on to "how can I get away with pretending that's not the focus so that I can get around the site's ban on the material?"

Okay right. VC Andrews "incest" revolves more around the results and drama of the incest more than any "hardcore" encounters. Just as rape in mainstream fiction is normally a "plot bunny" to the rest of the story where here is is the "main event".
I understand the risk involved in Lit dealing with underage sex. However still find it a bit much that a younger than 18 age cannot be mentioned at all. There are stories on this site in various categories that are not all "grope and go" strokers. Also lets face it if you are writing any type of character development much of what shapes a character is their past and their childhood. many mainstream novels use childhood flashbacks to explain the present (especially in serial killer type novels Thomas Harris' Red Dragon is a good example)
I don't think everyone who would like to throw in a "16" reference is into age kink it would just make things make more sense in certain situations we were not born at 18.
I'll shoot you another question one I hope you will answer honestly.
In the genre you write quite a bit in-gay male- are you going to tell me that, if allowed to, you would not write underage? I would think that would be a field day. Two young boys, finding out and experimenting with their attraction for the same sex. Hell years ago a lot of Gays stayed in the closet for years into their adulthood because of the stigma, even tried being with girls/women. Now it is so widely accepted they are coming out at 14. The possiblities story wise are endless and I don't think that gay male authors can all say "they would never" the temptation has to be there.
Just like incest and first time these encounters would happen at less than the legal age and everyone knows that.
There are certainly two schools of thought here. The first is obviously people who are into child porn and would love underage sex in the stories, however for that type 16 and 17 wouldn't be enough they would want seriously young because they are sick (see the budding breasts remark I mentioned earlier)
The other school of thought-mine- is simply a bit of realism in the writing. As you mentioned in your reply to me the age would be incidental not the focus.my first time was considerably younger than 18 a lot of people's were. As i said I slipped one past with the "my first time we were both 17" I did not write that line for kink value I was writing it in "mode" writing from the POV of a mid thirties woman describing her first time I really lost track of the rule because I was "hearing" the conversation in my mind. I probably would have got booted for it here.
Well thank you for answering the question.

 

[hottchic]

Interestingly the age of sexual consent in the UK is 16 so here consensual sex at 16 is not actually illegal.

Also the age that people can legally drink here in the UK is 18 the same age at which you are allowed to drive on a public road unsupervised.

I do find it incredible that in the US, you can join the army at 17, own a gun at 18 and yet can't drink until you are 21.

In the rest of western europe (outside the UK) it used to be possible to drink at the age of 14, so I started drinking diluted wine and beer on mainland europe at the age of 14. If I wrote about my drinking experiences before the age of 18 in a story, would the story be thrown out?

 

[lovecraft68]

Interestingly the age of sexual consent in the UK is 16 so here consensual sex at 16 is not actually illegal.

Also the age that people can legally drink here in the UK is 18 the same age at which you are allowed to drive on a public road unsupervised.

I do find it incredible that in the US, you can join the army at 17, own a gun at 18 and yet can't drink until you are 21.

In the rest of western europe (outside the UK) it used to be possible to drink at the age of 14, so I started drinking diluted wine and beer on mainland europe at the age of 14. If I wrote about my drinking experiences before the age of 18 in a story, would the story be thrown out?

from my experience mentioning under 18 doing anything will get you the boot. I did have my characters get drunk at 18/20 which is underage drinking here but it slipped through. Then again the story took place in NC in 1984 when the drinking age was 18 and I referenced it in the story so maybe they let me slide
tell you right now thought that "14" even if they are sitting watching television will get you tossed.

 

[Stella_Omega]

...If I wrote about my drinking experiences before the age of 18 in a story, would the story be thrown out?

Only if said drinking experience lead to under 18 sex.

This site is not governed by U.S laws-- it's governed by the owner's decisions in reaction to certain U.S. laws.

 

[sr71plt]

Okay right. VC Andrews "incest" revolves more around the results and drama of the incest more than any "hardcore" encounters. Just as rape in mainstream fiction is normally a "plot bunny" to the rest of the story where here is is the "main event".
I understand the risk involved in Lit dealing with underage sex. However still find it a bit much that a younger than 18 age cannot be mentioned at all. There are stories on this site in various categories that are not all "grope and go" strokers. Also lets face it if you are writing any type of character development much of what shapes a character is their past and their childhood. many mainstream novels use childhood flashbacks to explain the present (especially in serial killer type novels Thomas Harris' Red Dragon is a good example)
I don't think everyone who would like to throw in a "16" reference is into age kink it would just make things make more sense in certain situations we were not born at 18.
I'll shoot you another question one I hope you will answer honestly.
In the genre you write quite a bit in-gay male- are you going to tell me that, if allowed to, you would not write underage? I would think that would be a field day. Two young boys, finding out and experimenting with their attraction for the same sex. Hell years ago a lot of Gays stayed in the closet for years into their adulthood because of the stigma, even tried being with girls/women. Now it is so widely accepted they are coming out at 14. The possiblities story wise are endless and I don't think that gay male authors can all say "they would never" the temptation has to be there.
Just like incest and first time these encounters would happen at less than the legal age and everyone knows that.
There are certainly two schools of thought here. The first is obviously people who are into child porn and would love underage sex in the stories, however for that type 16 and 17 wouldn't be enough they would want seriously young because they are sick (see the budding breasts remark I mentioned earlier)
The other school of thought-mine- is simply a bit of realism in the writing. As you mentioned in your reply to me the age would be incidental not the focus.my first time was considerably younger than 18 a lot of people's were. As i said I slipped one past with the "my first time we were both 17" I did not write that line for kink value I was writing it in "mode" writing from the POV of a mid thirties woman describing her first time I really lost track of the rule because I was "hearing" the conversation in my mind. I probably would have got booted for it here.
Well thank you for answering the question.

First, could you please, please stop posting that big block of text. Please put extra line returns between paragraphs and make your paragraphs shorter. I think you've gotten this complaint before. I almost didn't read down to where you asked a question about my gay writing (which, I'll note again is not nearly all of the writing I do--it's what gets written under this particular name. I write all across the board--and in as much bulk as my gay writing under this pen name.)

I didn't read beyond where you asked the question, by the way. Just too thick of a glop of text.

Second, I'm tired of discussion challenging and/or on how to get around this Web site's rules on underage mentions and in the posters arguing with each other over this. The rules are set by Web site management. Go argue with them. They rarely read the forums. Plopping it here is a waste or your writing and my reading.

Third, I'll already responded to how I respond to this issue in my writing. It isn't--for me--the actual age that means anything; it's the size, freshness, innocence, and nubile nature of it. I take care of that in the description of the character. Somebody could be twenty-five and still embody all of the traits I note. I have a lot of characters set up that way--and size and age difference are key ingredients of many of my gay stories. (Two youngsters working each other doesn't do anything for me. Erotic first time for me is with someone experienced.)

Fourth. If I had to have the age titilation (which I don't), I'd just post those stories to different sites.

This topic, on this site--directed at each other rather than anyone who could change the rules, is really getting tiresome.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I have written underage gay male stories. They are posted elsewhere. A simple solution. The internet is a really big place.

And as a matter of fact, the whole concept of teen first times became very boring to me very quickly, I never finished the series.

 

[lovecraft68]

I have written underage gay male stories. They are posted elsewhere. A simple solution. The internet is a really big place.

And as a matter of fact, the whole concept of teen first times became very boring to me very quickly, I never finished the series.

Well I would think first times would not make a 'series' once they have "gotten it" that is pretty much the climax so to me they are all stand alone types so I could see where your interest would lag.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well I would think first times would not make a 'series' once they have "gotten it" that is pretty much the climax so to me they are all stand alone types so I could see where your interest would lag.

You remind me, somehow, of our special friend Boxlicker.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Well I would think first times would not make a 'series' once they have "gotten it" that is pretty much the climax so to me they are all stand alone types so I could see where your interest would lag.

A first time story can be part of a series. I have one series about Cindy Lou from Alabama, and one episode is the story of when she seduced the new stock boy where she works. It was his first time. Marian and Ryan is another series, and the first sex there was the first time for Ryan. Subesequent stories described their coupling in a variety of ways and are posted in a variety of categories.

You could probably write a series of stories about a person making a practice of only seducing virgins. I would never write such a series because I would find it distasteful and I probably wouldn't read it by somebody else either. That would apply with either a male or female protag, either gay or straight or lesbian.

ETA: I posted this before I saw the preceding post by Stella Dallas

 

[lovecraft68]

First, could you please, please stop posting that big block of text. Please put extra line returns between paragraphs and make your paragraphs shorter. I think you've gotten this complaint before. I almost didn't read down to where you asked a question about my gay writing (which, I'll note again is not nearly all of the writing I do--it's what gets written under this particular name. I write all across the board--and in as much bulk as my gay writing under this pen name.)

I didn't read beyond where you asked the question, by the way. Just too thick of a glop of text.

Second, I'm tired of discussion challenging and/or on how to get around this Web site's rules on underage mentions and in the posters arguing with each other over this. The rules are set by Web site management. Go argue with them. They rarely read the forums. Plopping it here is a waste or your writing and my reading.

Third, I'll already responded to how I respond to this issue in my writing. It isn't--for me--the actual age that means anything; it's the size, freshness, innocence, and nubile nature of it. I take care of that in the description of the character. Somebody could be twenty-five and still embody all of the traits I note. I have a lot of characters set up that way--and size and age difference are key ingredients of many of my gay stories. (Two youngsters working each other doesn't do anything for me. Erotic first time for me is with someone experienced.)

Fourth. If I had to have the age titilation (which I don't), I'd just post those stories to different sites.

This topic, on this site--directed at each other rather than anyone who could change the rules, is really getting tiresome.

Well seeing this topic keeps popping up here and in other threads maybe it is a bigger deal to some people than to you. For me the hang up is not sexual in nature but is a way to add "depth" to a story. But to you it is black and white and you don;t get why people care. Perhaps in that case you should be the one not putting in your two cents on the matter. Apparently other people seem to like to discuss it so take your morals to the next thread.

Speaking of which everyone here writes pornography of one for or another. But you seem to think yours is "above" other people's. "You" would never need to use under age. "you" never have to quibble the rules. Well la de da.

As for your other writing all I see you post in the Authors and their books thread is an endless array of the gay male stories. Which for the record are the most formulaic stories in one of the easier to please genre's there are. Change the time period, change the names, change the location and penis and bicep size and here we go again.

Boy meets boy. Boys is secretly attracted to boy. Boy wonders about his urges and fights them

this is where an alleged plot line comes in to stall the inevitable sex.

Boy finally lays his feelings on the line. But wait! Other boy feels the same way! Cue bad seventies porn music and a hot sex scene ensues!
Another Habu original has been penned! Put it on your shelf right next to Hemingway and Dickens!

 

[sr71plt]

*Nevermind*

I'll just let you stew in your own juices.

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

Hm, I'm going to back up to earlier posts and the notion of a ghost "aging". To add to the complexity of her "aging" or appearing older...ghosts and spirits (if you believe in them) are energy and can therefore manfiest in whatever way they wish to. They could haved died in their 80's and returned to "visit" as a 30 yr old, youthful and virile and at their prime, or vice versa with a young one looking older.

For instance a child who died at 2 years old, could "visit" 10 years later and because their parents wondered what they would have looked like as a 12 year old, she/he could show up as a tween. Someone who is sensitive to that energy would see them as a 12 year old, even though they were a toddler when they died. It happens - more than you'd think and can be a bit confusing.

Does that mean your character would have matured and aged 3 years? That's the conundrum, I think. If you believe that all of life's experiences: past, present, future, simultaneously/parallel-y come rushing back to you after you die, then yeah, maybe it's possible. Especially if you add to it that there are those who believe in past lives and reincarnation gaining all of those life experiences also...talk about complicating things.

However, it would also depend on if she's earthbound or has crossed over. If she's earthbound, more likely than not she would have not have had the opportunity to grow, "mature", or advance her soul. Unfinished business and all. That doesn't mean that she can't tap into enough energy to manifest a change in her appearance. If she had moved on and came back to visit and he happened to see her, I think she could.

You can all just smile and nod or ignore the ethereal peanut gallery altogether.

Happy Holidays everyone!

 

[lovecraft68]

Hm, I'm going to back up to earlier posts and the notion of a ghost "aging". So to add to the complication of her "aging" or appearing older...ghosts and spirits (if you believe in them) are energy and can therefore manfiest in whatever way they wish to. They could haved died in their 80's and returned to "visit" as a 30 yr old, youthful and virile and at their prime, or vice versa with a young one looking older.

For instance a child who died at 2 years old, could "visit" 10 years later and because their parents wondered what they would have looked like as a 12 year old, she/he could show up as a tween. Someone who is sensitive to that energy would see them as a 12 year old, even though they were a toddler when they died. It happens - more than you'd think and can be a bit confusing.

Does that mean your character would have matured and aged 3 years? That's the conundrum, I think. If you believe that all of life's experiences: past, present, future, simultaneously/parallel-y come rushing back to you after you die, then yeah, maybe it's possible. Especially if you add to it that there are those who believe in past lives and reincarnation...talk about complicating things.

You can all just smile and nod or ignore the ethereal peanut gallery altogether.

Happy Holidays everyone!

Familiar with all the theories you posted but they are a bit complicated for the story idea started here. Bottom line the readers would think what they wanted and many would want the ghost to still be underage i would think. If you follow the rest of the thread it is really best to leave it the hell alone anything starting in any format under 18 is subject to the "boot"

 

[lovecraft68]

*Nevermind*

I'll just let you stew in your own juices.

That may just be the nicest thing you have never said to me. Must be a holiday!

Enjoy yours.

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

Lovecraft, unless the writer set it up further to explain that it would be possible within the framework of the story. How do you know the main character isn't a ghost "hunter" or doesn't have experience with this type of phenomenon to begin with?

But yeah, I agree. Readers will take it how they want to. It was brought up that a ghost can't age, so I decided to hop in.

That's the whole reason I'm still flabbergasted that bayoubabe12987's 15 year old heroine, Evangline in her story "Evangeline" is still on Literotica. When the story starts off she is human and alive, regardless of what happens to her in the end.

 

[lovecraft68]

Lovecraft, unless the writer set it up further to explain that it would be possible within the framework of the story. How do you know the main character isn't a ghost "hunter" or doesn't have experience with this type of phenomenon to begin with?

But yeah, I agree. Readers will take it how they want to. It was brought up that a ghost can't age, so I decided to hop in.

That's the whole reason I'm still flabbergasted that bayoubabe12987's 15 year old heroine, Evangline in her story "Evangeline" is still on Literotica. When the story starts off she is human and alive, regardless of what happens to her in the end.

15? Interesting is she engaging in sexual activity at 15 in these stories? If she is then it is truly amazing she is still "here" unless the series is older and it went under the radar.

I was the one saying ghosts don't age. They won't if they do not want to or maybe don;t know they are supposed to. Hell look at Casper! That poor kid...

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

15? Interesting is she engaging in sexual activity at 15 in these stories? If she is then it is truly amazing she is still "here" unless the series is older and it went under the radar.

I was the one saying ghosts don't age. They won't if they do not want to or maybe don;t know they are supposed to. Hell look at Casper! That poor kid...

Lovecraft, YES she's engaging in sexual activity with a vampire. She's with him before being turned. The author entered it in last year's Halloween contest. I liked the story except for that little matter. Others who commented noted the age thing too. It's been reported several times over! Still nothing has been done. People even suggested just adding a few years to her age.

*giggles* OK, then I have some experience in that realm.

 

[lovecraft68]

Lovecraft, YES she's engaging in sexual activity with a vampire. She's with him before being turned. The author entered it in last year's Halloween contest. I liked the story except for that little matter. Others who commented noted the age thing too. It's been reported several times over! Still nothing has been done. People even suggested just adding a few years to her age.

*giggles* OK, then I have some experience in that realm.

You know I have come to the conclusion that there is a bit of a double standard going with the non-human category they really seem to be getting away with a lot. There is even some murder during sex. I don't care if it is a vampire "turning" someone if they die it is "snuff" werewolves and mythical creatures are the end around for bestiality. And apparently even the underage seems not to be taken seriously and that is something the site seems the strictest on.

As I said further up somewhere I had a story booted for using 16 in a non sexual situation. Oh well luck of the draw as I also got away with one hell of a good one so should not bitch (it was not entirely sexual unless you think a young-really- young girl being raped- is sexual I did it to show why the female character in my story is so screwed up and I did not over the top it)

Well if I ever have an issue I'll just have to drop the name of that story otehr wise whatever. Personally I don;t read any of that material as the whole "sexy vampire" thing has been beaten into ad nauseum.

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

Lovecraft, yah might be best to let it alone and not bitch