HR 2578 NO Fly, No Buy

[snugglestruggle]

Who decides you get on the list? The same Justice dept that's the lacky of whoever is president.

Justice Dept. decides if: 1) You meet the criteria for the no-new-guns list, and 2) for the freedom-to-travel-but-not-by-air list, and 3) it’s the same Justice Dept. that controls review of the list, and 4) it also controls appeals for reversals if you sue. By law, after your first hearing, no appeals are allowed. Have a nice day:

Excerpt below

(h) EXCLUSIVE REMEDY.—The judicial review under a petition for review filed under subsection (c)* shall be the sole and exclusive remedy for a claim by an individual who challenges a denial under subsection (a)(1).


* (c) An individual… who seeks to challenge a denial… may file a petition for review and any claims related to that petition in the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit or in the court of appeals of the United States for the judicial circuit in which the individual resides.

In case you actually care about your rights and want to know why you have been denied:

(d)(4) No discovery shall be permitted, unless the court shall determine extraordinary circumstances requires discovery in the interests of justice

No district court of the United States or court of appeals of the United States shall have jurisdiction to consider the lawfulness or constitutionality of this section except pursuant to a petition for review under section.

This says you cannot question if the no-fly-no-buy law is legal. WTF ??? Read it all for yourself if you have the stomach.


Read more: http://www.gunlaws.com/pdf/FlakeAntiRightsAmendmentHR2578.pdf

 

[Knot Again]

Teddy Kennedy was on it.....as he shoulda been

Anyone can be on it

 

[phrodeau]

Why worry? The NRA and their lackey politicians will figure out ways to get people off the no-fly list.

 

[Liar]

Who decides you get on the list? The same Justice dept that's the lacky of whoever is president.

So the problem is not¨really the no buy part, but the no fly part.

 

[snugglestruggle]

So the problem is not¨really the no buy part, but the no fly part.

15 years after 9/11 people still land on the no fly list by mistake. Now they want to use the same process to restrict a persons right to buy a firearm using the same flawed system. At the same time denying the right of due process, among other things. That's Pretty fucked up.

 

[Liar]

15 years after 9/11 people still land on the no fly list by mistake. Now they want to use the same process to restrict a persons right to buy a firearm using the same flawed system. At the same time denying the right of due process among other things. That's Pretty fucked up.

So yeah, the no fly list is borked. We agree. Those who think it's a good idea to base other restrictions on the no fly list probably disagree with us on it's borked-ness.

So that's the part to adress. That's the root. But you only got up in arms (heh) when they tied guns to it. Why is that?

 

[Sean]

What I find hilarious is the fact that right wingers were perfectly OK with the gubmint putting anyone they like on the no fly list, because MUSLIMS!

Now their metal penis extensions are threatened and they're pitching a hissy fit.

 

[Liar]

Maybe this could force some due process into the no-fly list...

 

[Liar]

Nah, who am I kidding?

 

[Christobal]

Maybe this could force some due process into the no-fly list...

Are you crazy? The list is secret because--well because. It's better if you don't know why you are on it. Cause because.

We are keeping you people safe. So shut up and accept it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

So that's the part to adress. That's the root. But you only got up in arms (heh) when they tied guns to it. Why is that?

Because it's a civil right being taken without due process.

Maybe this could force some due process into the no-fly list...

LOL yea right. Dems didn't do this on accident....the whole objective is to bypass the Constitution. 3 days after passing everyone not in the DNC or their security detail would be on the fuckin' list except under article 8 subsection 2349124D paragraph 3C most would be re-cleared to fly but not to buy a gun! Effectively making it a gun ban list without writing any laws that actually ban guns. This is how shit works.

 

[snugglestruggle]

So yeah, the no fly list is borked. We agree. Those who think it's a good idea to base other restrictions on the no fly list probably disagree with us on it's borked-ness.

So that's the part to adress. That's the root. But you only got up in arms (heh) when they tied guns to it. Why is that?

Not being able to fly on an airplane is very inconvenient, being denied a civil right especially without due process is something nobody should stand for unless you don't care. In that case people shouldn't whine 2 years from now.

If I understand the legal mumbo jumbo you get 1 shot at getting off the list (assuming the JD doesn't make changes since they are the sole arbiter as noted). The courts are purposely excluded why? So the JD can't do whatever they want .

Would the Dems be comfortable with that if Trump was president and his Justice Dept was calling the shots? No fucking way. Most likely you find out you're on the list when you try to buy a gun and are denied, just like people found out they were on the no fly list.

There should be judicial oversight. The JD should have to prove their case for such a restriction to a judge, the restriction should not be indefinite unless the person is incarcerated.

First is was no fly, then it will be no Buy...what will be next?Anything deemed as hate speech, like saying Islam the religion of choice for Terrorists?

 

[about_average]

You can end up on the no-fly list just because of a clerical error, or because you have the same name as someone who should be on it.
I security guy in England got his wife added while she was visiting in the US so she couldn't fly back home.

As for no judicial review, I can't see how that could ever pass constitutional muster, based on Article III, Sections 1 & 2.

 

[snugglestruggle]

You can end up on the no-fly list just because of a clerical error, or because you have the same name as someone who should be on it.
I security guy in England got his wife added while she was visiting in the US so she couldn't fly back home.

As for no judicial review, I can't see how that could ever pass constitutional muster, based on Article III, Sections 1 & 2.

I don't see how anyone could have proposed to give the president authorization to Assassinate US citizens without due process in the patriot act. Not only was it proposed, it was enacted and reauthorized. When you think you are above the law, as many politicains do, the law isn't worth the paper it's written on.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Why worry? The NRA and their lackey politicians will figure out ways to get people off the no-fly list.

The NRA is a member driven organization by the people for the people with the primary goal of protecting the 2nd amendment.

You find their goal more nefarious then the multiple foreign governments and Wall Street crowd that funnel 10x the funds to Hillary why?

 

[snugglestruggle]

Phromeau is president of the Hobbits for Hillary club.

 

[Sean]

The NRA is a member driven organization by the people for the people with the primary goal of protecting the 2nd amendment.

LMAO. Maybe once upon a time. Now it's a manufacturer driven organisation with the primary goal of selling guns. By their own admission, less than half their revenue comes from members.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

LMAO. Maybe once upon a time. Now it's a manufacturer driven organisation with the primary goal of selling guns. By their own admission, less than half their revenue comes from members.

companies are barred from donating to the NRA’s political action committee, which the agency uses to fill campaign coffers, run ads and send out mailers for and against politicians.


Membership dues totaling $175,577,863 contributed the largest percentage (50.5%) of the NRA’s total revenue of $347,968,789 in 2013, the most recent year for which data are available. The next biggest sources were $96.4 million from private contributions and grants (27.7%), $27.61 million from unrelated business income (7.9%), and $24.5 million from advertising income (7%).

Just how many lies can you pack in 3 sentence post?

 

[Sean]

companies are barred from donating to the NRA’s political action committee, which the agency uses to fill campaign coffers, run ads and send out mailers for and against politicians.


Membership dues totaling $175,577,863 contributed the largest percentage (50.5%) of the NRA’s total revenue of $347,968,789 in 2013, the most recent year for which data are available. The next biggest sources were $96.4 million from private contributions and grants (27.7%), $27.61 million from unrelated business income (7.9%), and $24.5 million from advertising income (7%).

Just how many lies can you pack in 3 sentence post?

Or you could, you know, find a source that isn't out of date?
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/01/ne...ped-by-47-million-following-sandy-hook-surge/

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Or you could, you know, find a source that isn't out of date?
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/01/ne...ped-by-47-million-following-sandy-hook-surge/

You use a source with no real numbers from 2014? A source that is a anti gun group started by Bloomberg?

LMAO!!

Now that's a double down on stupid. Bravo!!!!

 

[Sean]

You use a source with no real numbers from 2014? A source that is a anti gun group started by Bloomberg?

LMAO!!

Now that's a double down on stupid. Bravo!!!!

You can see the actual filing here:
https://www.charitiesnys.com/RegistrySearch/show_details.jsp?id={93B542EA-9F6E-40EC-9F0F-3D6462CAFF8C}

 

[eyerami]

I don't see how anyone could have proposed to give the president authorization to Assassinate US citizens without due process in the patriot act. Not only was it proposed, it was enacted and reauthorized. When you think you are above the law, as many politicains do, the law isn't worth the paper it's written on.

The FBI doesn't even need any judge any more...

Leaked FBI documents reveal secret rules for spying on journalists with National Security Letters
https://freedom.press/blog/2016/06/...-spying-journalists-national-security-letters

Anyone who trusts the federal government of the United Socialist State of America to revere the Constitution instead of spending so much time, $$ and effort circumventing it - and flat-out lying to the American public while doing so - is absolutely nothing but a total fool.

 

[Sean]

You use a source with no real numbers from 2014? A source that is a anti gun group started by Bloomberg?

LMAO!!

Now that's a double down on stupid. Bravo!!!!

Oh, btw, the source is from January 2016 and the numbers you were quoting were from 2013. Reading is something of a problem for you, isn't it?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Everyone who was a fan of the IRS targeting Conservative groups for harassment will love the idea of targeting with an even better tool...


:nods:

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Oh, btw, the source is from January 2016 and the numbers you were quoting were from 2013. Reading is something of a problem for you, isn't it?

No Sean. The article was written in 16. The source is from 14.

A source that shows businesses are not the primary source of funding by the way....

That stupid or that much of a liar?