How to write a poem properly

[Wok]

Hello, I was told to come back here, and decided to. Now the big issue I have is I suck sour donkey balls writing poems. So, what is a good place to learn how to write some properly. Thanks a lot.

 

[Tzara]

Hello, I was told to come back here, and decided to. Now the big issue I have is I suck sour donkey balls writing poems. So, what is a good place to learn how to write some properly. Thanks a lot.

I would suggest you might start by reading some books. My personal favorite is The Poetry Home Repair Manual by Ted Kooser. Kooser is a Pulitzer Prize-winning poet and a kind of no-nonsense guy (he's from Nebraska, which means either he's intrinsically boring or simply by fact of residence, emotionally grounded in what makes America great) and he spent his working life in the insurance industry, kind of like Wallace Stevens (which means he isn't completely wired in to the academic school of poetry).

I also like The Poet's Companion by Kim Addonizio and Dorianne Laux, but I have a major Jones for both of those poets that is not entirely rooted in their poems, so that could be a bum recommendation.

Other people have suggested other books. I think Bijou likes one by Babette Deutsch. I know Mary Oliver has written a book on writing poetry as well. Probably lots of other poets have as well.

The main thing? Read a lot of poetry and think about the ones you like. There are many different approaches and styles, and individual poets can be very passionate about them (meaning, among other things, that if you aren't writing in the context of their aesthetic, you are by definition writing crap).

If you have any more specific questions, just ask. Someone will answer.

Your problem is to determine whether the answer (like, for example, this one) is real or crap.

Dontcha just love the Internet?

 

[annaswirls]

Seriously, what Tzara said. And when you feel ready, you can post them here (or at the hundreds of poetry bulletin boards out there) and be prepared for specific critique.

My question to you is: Why on earth do you want to write poetry? No one reads it and it is a serious burden. Don't write unless you really must.

 

[EroticOrogeny]

what kind of poems are you wanting to write? There's a lot of variety here, some good, some not so much. I'd start out with some books of poetry. Try some & get some feedback.

 

[champagne1982]

I would suggest you might start by reading some books. My personal favorite is The Poetry Home Repair Manual by Ted Kooser. Kooser is a Pulitzer Prize-winning poet and a kind of no-nonsense guy (he's from Nebraska, which means either he's intrinsically boring or simply by fact of residence, emotionally grounded in what makes America great) and he spent his working life in the insurance industry, kind of like Wallace Stevens (which means he isn't completely wired in to the academic school of poetry).

I also like The Poet's Companion by Kim Addonizio and Dorianne Laux, but I have a major Jones for both of those poets that is not entirely rooted in their poems, so that could be a bum recommendation.

Other people have suggested other books. I think Bijou likes one by Babette Deutsch. I know Mary Oliver has written a book on writing poetry as well. Probably lots of other poets have as well.

The main thing? Read a lot of poetry and think about the ones you like. There are many different approaches and styles, and individual poets can be very passionate about them (meaning, among other things, that if you aren't writing in the context of their aesthetic, you are by definition writing crap).

If you have any more specific questions, just ask. Someone will answer.

Your problem is to determine whether the answer (like, for example, this one) is real or crap.

Dontcha just love the Internet?

I might add to Tzed's post that although reading a diverse selection of poems will begin to show you the wide array of styles and poetic devices that are used in the creation of what most people call poetry you need to be careful. You may get the idea that when it comes to poetry, there aren't any rules and that sort of thinking can turn you into a primo-donny who doesn't believe anyone can critique or help him improve his poetry because, "Who can criticize my art, dude?"

 

[Angeline]

Hey Wok. You actually came here; how very cool!

Like I said yesterday this is a wonderful forum for learning about poetry as you can see from the responses you got here. The advice about reading to find out what you like is excellent, imo. The thing is that each of us probably has a different definition about what constitutes a proper poem. I've no doubt there's lots of overlap in our opinions, especially cause we all know each other here. But still...

The first thing you need to do is to decide what, for you, constitutes a good poem. When you find some poems you like, you should think about why you like them. What are the specific qualities that make them good in your opinion? Is it that they rhyme or don't, that they use images in a way you like, that the language is simple or complex or romantic or whatever it is. Imo, identifying those qualities will help you understand how to reproduce them in your own writing. But yeah, start by doing some reading. If you want to be better at poem writing, the two things you need to do are read and write, preferably everyday (because practice, like with anything, will help you improve).

If you want, post a few poems here that you consider really good (whoever wrote them), and maybe some of the poets here can help you with their opinions of why they think they're good (or not).

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Maybe we could have a back-to-the-basics Summer Boot-Camp as well, with a few easy exercises.

 

[normal jean]

Seriously, what Tzara said. And when you feel ready, you can post them here (or at the hundreds of poetry bulletin boards out there) and be prepared for specific critique.

My question to you is: Why on earth do you want to write poetry? No one reads it and it is a serious burden. Don't write unless you really must.

Absolutely, what Anna said. We are the chosen ones, who toil with words and receive tears as thank yous. And when you can no longer write, you wonder why? what did I do?

Good luck, and read read read.

 

[Angeline]

Maybe we could have a back-to-the-basics Summer Boot-Camp as well, with a few easy exercises.

Ok, but I am so not writing a double-backwards acrostic sestina, you. Easy. Eassssy.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Ok, but I am so not writing a double-backwards acrostic sestina, you. Easy. Eassssy.

I was thinking more along the lines of describing a lake without using the words water, wave, blue, mirror and all derivations and synonyms.

 

[normal jean]

Ok, but I am so not writing a double-backwards acrostic sestina, you. Easy. Eassssy.

at least you could...

if you wanted to

 

[bflagsst]

...My question to you is: Why on earth do you want to write poetry? No one reads it and it is a serious burden. Don't write unless you really must.

I think that anyone who's ever picked up a pencil has tried to write at least one poem outside of a school assignment. The problem is most of those people haven't read too many. I'd say you have to read every poet whose name sounds familiar to you before you can think about writing a good poem, and who wants to do that? Besides for a dozen people here and like 19 or 20 people on the middle-english messageboard at the JollyRoger website, ha, anyone ever go there?

So if you were to have a thread describing how to write a good poem, you might start by making a list of what you have to read before you can write. I think everyone's said you have to read poems, and every poet we can think of would have to be included, no arguments. The list would include poets, specific books, and specific poems, cuz if you haven't read Eliza B.-Browning "Sonnet 43" you lose.

"14" is just as important!

 

[Angeline]

I was thinking more along the lines of describing a lake without using the words water, wave, blue, mirror and all derivations and synonyms.

Nods. I can handle that. Probably. I'm just seriously against any poem at this point that requires me to count syllables, identify stresses or make a chart. lol

at least you could...

if you wanted to

Mebbe sis. But I'd have a really, really bad headache afterwards.

I think that anyone who's ever picked up a pencil has tried to write at least one poem outside of a school assignment. The problem is most of those people haven't read too many. I'd say you have to read every poet whose name sounds familiar to you before you can think about writing a good poem, and who wants to do that? Besides for a dozen people here and like 19 or 20 people on the middle-english messageboard at the JollyRoger website, ha, anyone ever go there?

So if you were to have a thread describing how to write a good poem, you might start by making a list of what you have to read before you can write. I think everyone's said you have to read poems, and every poet we can think of would have to be included, no arguments. The list would include poets, specific books, and specific poems, cuz if you haven't read Eliza B.-Browning "Sonnet 43" you lose.

"14" is just as important!

Here's a little background: Wok was here on the forum years ago and wrote a bit. He moved on to greener pastures. I'm not sure how invested he is in the whole poetry thing now although I know he is already an artist and a musician (I think, right Wok?), so theoretically poetry should not be a huge stretch for him. Of course we may already have scared him off with um homework. And I didn't say he has to read "The Wild Swans at Coole," first.

 

[bflagsst]

I'm glad you didn't tell him to read "Wild Swans" first cuz he should read "Responsibilities" and possibly "The Green Helmet" before reading "Wild Swans at George Boole's". Tell me you've read "Michael Robartes" and "the tower" and "Winding stair" and "in the seven woods" in their entirety and I'll know that all the positive things I think about you are true.

my dear, my dear, I know
more than another
what makes your heart beat so;
not even your own mother
can know it as I know

 

[Angeline]

I'm glad you didn't tell him to read "Wild Swans" first cuz he should read "Responsibilities" and possibly "The Green Helmet" before reading "Wild Swans at George Boole's". Tell me you've read "Michael Robartes" and "the tower" and "Winding stair" and "in the seven woods" in their entirety and I'll know that all the positive things I think about you are true.

my dear, my dear, I know
more than another
what makes your heart beat so;
not even your own mother
can know it as I know

Most of what you think about me is probably wrong. Except the parts about me being brilliant and amazingly gorgeous. You were thinking that, right?

I have a copy of "In the Seven Woods." I'd sleep with it under my pillow if ee wouldn't laugh at me about my ahem Yeats infection. Btw, did you know that Robert Browning is one of my favorite poets? Andrea del Sarto makes me teary whenever I read it. Y'know, teary in a good way.

ETA:

I have heard the pigeons of the Seven Woods
Make their faint thunder, and the garden bees
Hum in the lime tree flowers; and put away
The unavailing outcries and the old bitterness
That empty the heart. I have forgot awhile
Tara uprooted, and new commonness
Upon the throne and crying about the streets
And hanging its paper flowers from post to post,
Because it is alone of all things happy.
I am contented for I know that Quiet
Wanders laughing and eating her wild heart
Among pigeons and bees, while that Great Archer,
Who but awaits His hour to shoot, still hangs
A cloudy quiver over Parc-na-Lee.

~Sigh. So lovely, you know?

 

[bflagsst]

I had a thought for no one's but your ears:
That you were beautiful, and that I strove

 

[SweetOblivion]

Hello, I was told to come back here, and decided to. Now the big issue I have is I suck sour donkey balls writing poems. So, what is a good place to learn how to write some properly. Thanks a lot.

I'm sure there is a haiku lurking in there somewhere:

My inkwell is dry,
For I suck sour donkey balls,
Neglecting my craft.

Smiles

Sweet O

(Look at a book on metre and form - try some pastiches - read the works of others - and write, write, write.)

 

[Angeline]

I had a thought for no one's but your ears:
That you were beautiful, and that I strove

How many loved your moments of glad grace,
And loved your beauty with love false or true,
But one man loved the pilgrim Soul in you,
And loved the sorrows of your changing face;

 

[KillerMuffin]

Well, in addition to books. I write a poem. Then I show it to people who know poetry to varying degrees and are willing to feedback it (like the poets here). And then I thank them for their feedback. I also read their work and give feedback to it as much as possible. I learned more from reviewing than from being reviewed. Huh.

 

[ishtat]

I was thinking more along the lines of describing a lake without using the words water, wave, blue, mirror and all derivations and synonyms.

land locked H2O - NaCl ( Ok it ain't poetry)

 

[Angeline]

Well, in addition to books. I write a poem. Then I show it to people who know poetry to varying degrees and are willing to feedback it (like the poets here). And then I thank them for their feedback. I also read their work and give feedback to it as much as possible. I learned more from reviewing than from being reviewed. Huh.

land locked H2O - NaCl ( Ok it ain't poetry)

Well my dears, whether Wok comes back or not I am thrilled to see such a fine pride of poets in this thread, not to mention lots of good advice for anyone aspiring to poeting.

The first thread I ever responded to in this forum was started by the lovely Judo, and asked: what is the mass noun we use to describe poets? We know, for example, of a gaggle of geese, a school of fish, a murder of crows. But what of poets? Does anyone know the answer to that? I can't recall if we ever resolved it way back in '02.

And even if you don't know, what word would you use? And, of course, why?

A peck of poets? Pick a peck of pickled poets?

Yeah we could look up the original thread but this is more fun. Old is the new new.

(I'm goofy with fatigue. I need much more sleep lol.)

 

[DastardlyOne]

Re Poetry

Well Im no expert, but I do so love to write poetry. I am never completely happy with anything I write, but then when I read others work, I realise I have ability.

I personally do feel poetry should rhyme, or at least have some clever structuring and be incredibly beautiful and profound. Most people tend to whinge in short sentances and call themselves poets, this is delucional IMHO.

I have read that a decent poem has to have form changes etc...and can see how some of mine recently, should have had them. But we are all learning and though not published and famous yet...the aspiration remains to get better.

Him x

 

[ishtat]

I am not so certain that reading makes a good poet. It might help make an average one a little better and it is worthwhile in itself but does it make a poet more observant, does it bless a poet with insight or enhance their powers of observation. Is life experience even necessary; Chatterton was dead at 18 and Keats at 26 but both could write.

I suspect that there is no formula at all but different people from all sorts of experiental backgrounds have the capacity to sculpt with words whilst others do not. Poetry is like music, some people can perform so well it's just unfair that the rest of us cannot. Wicked Eve for example can do it - a few ok poems then kerpow! a poem so good it knocks you sideways. There are others here who produce gems, but generally less often. I used to work with an academic who wrote with extraordinary erudition about literature and poetry for 40 years but could she write poetry of any originality. Nope, not a line.

Maybe that's the fascination with poetry , the fact that we cannot pin it down and that talent emerges from both likely and unlikely people.

 

[bflagsst]

...Maybe that's the fascination with poetry , the fact that we cannot pin it down and that talent emerges from both likely and unlikely people.

I swear everyone tries writing poetry in their life aside from a school assignment.

 

[Tzara]

I learned more from reviewing than from being reviewed. Huh.

I kinda agree with this and kinda not. Certainly, trying to review (or analyze) someone else's poem makes one much more aware of things in one's own questionable attempts at writing poems. But perhaps the greatest help I've ever gotten about my poems was when someone smacked me in the face with a dead fish over something I did.

Comments can really help, if they are serious and informational.

(The ever popular Your poem sucks may be serious, but it is not especially informational.)