How to know when a marriage is over

[Gods_Favorite]

I'm starting to think me and my wife shouldnt be together anymore. Things have started to get really bad between me and her in the past few months, a couple months ago we started to go through bad financial troubles, the worst we've ever been through, I work full time and she goes to school at night, she gets paid once a month for going to school but that money never lasts, and we live in California so things are very expensive, shes from the virgin Islands blasts our phone bills sky high calling people there, she paid $500 on the phone bill in April, and that caused the check for the groceries to bounce, and I had to borrow money to pay for the check she bounced, I sat her down and said she can't be spending that much money on a phone, we are barely hanging on as it is and shes spending money like shes married to a moviestar. She said the money she paid on the phone bill was left over from when we moved here from Nebraska back in October of last year, which I think is a lie. I tell her this and we argue again. We argue about money at least 2-3 times a week, loud yelling arguments, the rest of the time shes at school when I get home and when she gets home I'm usualy asleep. The last argument was last night and I pretty much laid it all out, we can't continue on like this, she needs to put school on hold and get a job at least until wer back on our feet, one income isn;t supporting this family and the way she spends money flamboyantly is not helping matters. All she does when I talk to her about this is type on the labtop and I have to repeat myself 2 or 3 times, and this turns into a yelling argument, I said a normal wife would at least give her husband the respect of paying attention when I'm talking and not typing on a labtop, I said I would throw the labtop out the window and she said she'd call the police and charge me for damages to it since it belongs to the school. On top of all this, I think shes cheating on me, I've seen emails shes sent to people in the Virgin Islands about wanting to meet this guy shes been talking to, I also seen a email where he sent her pictures of his cock. Plus she always blocks her chat logs and msn messenger when I'm around, theres this guy that she talks to at her school, whenever he calls she talks all quiet on the phone and usually leaves the room, like right now shes out in the backyard being all quiet on her cellphone with this guy. She says hes just a "friend", if he was just a friend there wouldn't be a need for all this secrecy, another argument starts. The way she treats me is also different, colder, its like a wall has sprung up between us now. I was recently out of state on business for 2 weeks, when I come home all she does is give me a peck on the cheek and barely a hug, when we get home she goes right for the labtop and says theres some food on the stove, I said I haven't seen you for 2 weeks and you didn't even hug me, say you love me, anything, she says shes on her period and can't fuck me, I say you don;t have to fuck me you could at least hug me and show some kind of affection you know, we got into a big argument that night which resulted in me leaving for a few hours to cool down. When I checked the car I found a foreplay book I bought for her 2 years ago in the front seat of our car, this is a book which has basically collected dust since I bought it shes never even read the book, now its in the front seat of our car, she says our son picked it up and brought it in the car, which I think is bullshit. I just don't think I can go on living like this anymore, if I had more money I would leave at least for a little while. I don't want my son to be exposed to these arguments, its not a good environment for him, any advise would be appreciated, I know a divorce costs money and if anyone knows how to go about starting the process please let me know.

 

[Willing and Unsure]

I'm putting the communication stamp on this thread.

If you think your marriage is over, or nearly over, or you are unhappy with the way she's acting and the way things are between you, then talk to her. Take everything you have said here and talk to her calmly. Do not allow any yelling to occur, and just talk about it all. Even if you aren't looking to salvage the relationship, talk to her anyways.

 

[Gods_Favorite]

I'm putting the communication stamp on this thread.

If you think your marriage is over, or nearly over, or you are unhappy with the way she's acting and the way things are between you, then talk to her. Take everything you have said here and talk to her calmly. Do not allow any yelling to occur, and just talk about it all. Even if you aren't looking to salvage the relationship, talk to her anyways.

I'm willing to try anything, I just can't stand living like this, she goes and spends money without even talking to me. I always tell her let me know next time, then she does it again, after all the bills are paid we are broke as hell because of the way she handles finances. We've been married for 4 years and this is the worst its ever been, we were so happy before and now its like wer not even the same people anymore.

 

[BlueSugar]

I'm putting the communication stamp on this thread.

If you think your marriage is over, or nearly over, or you are unhappy with the way she's acting and the way things are between you, then talk to her. Take everything you have said here and talk to her calmly. Do not allow any yelling to occur, and just talk about it all. Even if you aren't looking to salvage the relationship, talk to her anyways.

I couldn't agree more.

It seems like its been a runaway train for some time now, and that you love her dearly - just not her actions.
The time for a talk or few is long over due. Don't point fingers, just state facts and put it all on the table and see where you two want to go from there.

 

[Gods_Favorite]

I couldn't agree more.

It seems like its been a runaway train for some time now, and that you love her dearly - just not her actions.
The time for a talk or few is long over due. Don't point fingers, just state facts and put it all on the table and see where you two want to go from there.

I'll talk to her again today, but all that happens when I talk to her about what we should do is she tells me if I want to leave I should leave, I ask her if she wants me to leave she ignores me, to be honest even if she did want me to leave I don't have a place to go, plus I'm the one paying the bills I don't think I should leave, I wish there was some kind of marriage counseling we could go to that doesn't charge an arm and a leg.

 

[SweetErika]

Wow. That's a lot of information. Many things are jumping out at me, but I wouldn't say it's over necessarily unless one or both of you aren't willing to give repairing and rebuilding the relationship everything you've got. If you're not both committed to that, it's over now.

I'd say there are two main problems:
1) You don't respect each other.
2) You're not communicating in a meaningful way.

I've broken your post down into manageable bites (I know you're probably really upset writing this, but it'd be helpful if you could separate things with periods and paragraphs a little bit so it's easier to read/comprehend. That's something I'm not used to doing either, and have had to really work on here. ) so you can get an idea of what I mean.

I sat her down and said she can't be spending that much money on a phone, we are barely hanging on as it is and shes spending money like shes married to a moviestar. She said the money she paid on the phone bill was left over from when we moved here from Nebraska back in October of last year, which I think is a lie. I tell her this and we argue again.

I'm guessing this was kind of a confrontation, correct? "Honey, you're spending too much on the phone...you're not married to a movie star. No, we spent the money from Nebraska...you're lying!" is going to start an argument. No one likes to be accused of anything, and you have to understand talking to her friends and family is important to her-- you just threatened that. An "We're really struggling financially, sweetie. Can we sit down tomorrow and see what we can come up with to manage things better?" approach would probably work better. Remember, you're supposed to be a team, not adversaries.

We argue about money at least 2-3 times a week, loud yelling arguments, the rest of the time shes at school when I get home and when she gets home I'm usualy asleep.

I'd suggest checking out, reading, and doing the work in John Gottman's The Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work and Why Marriages Succeed and Fail. http://www.gottman.com/ is his website or here's the Amazon.com link. I'd buy them, but they're both available FREE at your local library. Well, you might have to order them from another library, but close enough. I can't say enough good things about them or tell you how much they've helped our marriage. I was also interested to hear a good friend's marriage therapist is basing his therapy program off of Gottman's philosophies.

The last argument was last night and I pretty much laid it all out, we can't continue on like this, she needs to put school on hold and get a job at least until wer back on our feet, one income isn;t supporting this family and the way she spends money flamboyantly is not helping matters.

Again, it sounds like adversaries, not partners working together to solve problems. There are always multiple solutions (like cutting expenses, part-time jobs), but I don't blame either of you for not seeing them. Next time you're tempted to tell her to do something or demand, think about how you would react to her telling you to quit your job or something you felt good about doing. If you wouldn't want her to treat you that way, don't do it to her, no matter how frustrated you are.

All she does when I talk to her about this is type on the labtop and I have to repeat myself 2 or 3 times, and this turns into a yelling argument,

This is where the lack of respect for eachother is evident. I know it's hard to treat her well when she's being so disrespectful, but don't let yourself sink to her level. Maybe tell her you'd like to talk about it the next day, and ask when a good time for her would be to talk. This makes her responsible for her actions.

I said a normal wife would at least give her husband the respect of paying attention when I'm talking and not typing on a labtop, I said I would throw the labtop out the window and she said she'd call the police and charge me for damages to it since it belongs to the school.

Now you're reacting with the same lack of respect she's shown you. Don't do it. Take the high road, and don't let it escalate. Don't threaten to throw her laptop out...that's immature, and you're better than that.

On top of all this, I think shes cheating on me, I've seen emails shes sent to people in the Virgin Islands about wanting to meet this guy shes been talking to, I also seen a email where he sent her pictures of his cock. Plus she always blocks her chat logs and msn messenger when I'm around, theres this guy that she talks to at her school, whenever he calls she talks all quiet on the phone and usually leaves the room, like right now shes out in the backyard being all quiet on her cellphone with this guy. She says hes just a "friend", if he was just a friend there wouldn't be a need for all this secrecy, another argument starts.

Have you talked to her about this in a non-accusative manner? Told her you're concerned? To be fair, I am NOT cheating, and my husband's welcome to read my chat logs, email, or listen to my phone conversations whenever he wants. However, sometimes I'll react if he's reading email over my shoulder or I'll go in another room if I'm on the phone with a friend. I'm not cheating, but I like having a little privacy. Your wife may be the same way. Talk about it, and make some ground rules so you both feell respected.

The way she treats me is also different, colder, its like a wall has sprung up between us now. I was recently out of state on business for 2 weeks, when I come home all she does is give me a peck on the cheek and barely a hug, when we get home she goes right for the labtop and says theres some food on the stove, I said I haven't seen you for 2 weeks and you didn't even hug me, say you love me, anything, she says shes on her period and can't fuck me, I say you don;t have to fuck me you could at least hug me and show some kind of affection you know, we got into a big argument that night which resulted in me leaving for a few hours to cool down.

Again, it's a confrontation, much of which is caused by blaming. Maybe try, "I really missed you. Can I give you a hug?" or "When you didn't hug or kiss me, I felt _(sad, lonely, etc.)__. I know that wasn't your intention. Could we do something differently next time?"

When I checked the car I found a foreplay book I bought for her 2 years ago in the front seat of our car, this is a book which has basically collected dust since I bought it shes never even read the book, now its in the front seat of our car, she says our son picked it up and brought it in the car, which I think is bullshit.

It might be bullshit, but you asked her about it, and she gave you an answer. Maybe she's cheating, but you don't know that for sure. Let this one go.

I just don't think I can go on living like this anymore, if I had more money I would leave at least for a little while. I don't want my son to be exposed to these arguments, its not a good environment for him, any advise would be appreciated, I know a divorce costs money and if anyone knows how to go about starting the process please let me know.

I'm glad you're thinking of your son...that's the most important thing, isn't it.

Why haven't you two tried counseling? If she's in school, there should be free mental health services available. There's also a ton of other free help if you're willing to investigate. Even if you don't stay together, you need to learn how to respect eachother and communicate effectively for the good of your son in the future. Therapy should be your first course of action. If you try and try and it's just not working after you've tried everything, then you can start thinking about divorce. There's lons of stuff online about how to file the papers and get proceedings going yourself if it comes to that.

Read the books, do the work, get therapy, respect eachother, learn how to communicate effectively, THEN talk about divorce if the therapy doesn't work.

Good luck!

 

[Gods_Favorite]

Wow. That's a lot of information. Many things are jumping out at me, but I wouldn't say it's over necessarily unless one or both of you aren't willing to give repairing and rebuilding the relationship everything you've got. If you're not both committed to that, it's over now.

I'd say there are two main problems:
1) You don't respect each other.
2) You're not communicating in a meaningful way.

I've broken your post down into manageable bites (I know you're probably really upset writing this, but it'd be helpful if you could separate things with periods and paragraphs a little bit so it's easier to read/comprehend. That's something I'm not used to doing either, and have had to really work on here. ) so you can get an idea of what I mean.


I'm guessing this was kind of a confrontation, correct? "Honey, you're spending too much on the phone...you're not married to a movie star. No, we spent the money from Nebraska...you're lying!" is going to start an argument. No one likes to be accused of anything, and you have to understand talking to her friends and family is important to her-- you just threatened that. An "We're really struggling financially, sweetie. Can we sit down tomorrow and see what we can come up with to manage things better?" approach would probably work better. Remember, you're supposed to be a team, not adversaries.


I'd suggest checking out, reading, and doing the work in John Gottman's The Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work and Why Marriages Succeed and Fail. http://www.gottman.com/ is his website or here's the Amazon.com link. I'd buy them, but they're both available FREE at your local library. Well, you might have to order them from another library, but close enough. I can't say enough good things about them or tell you how much they've helped our marriage. I was also interested to hear a good friend's marriage therapist is basing his therapy program off of Gottman's philosophies.


Again, it sounds like adversaries, not partners working together to solve problems. There are always multiple solutions (like cutting expenses, part-time jobs), but I don't blame either of you for not seeing them. Next time you're tempted to tell her to do something or demand, think about how you would react to her telling you to quit your job or something you felt good about doing. If you wouldn't want her to treat you that way, don't do it to her, no matter how frustrated you are.


This is where the lack of respect for eachother is evident. I know it's hard to treat her well when she's being so disrespectful, but don't let yourself sink to her level. Maybe tell her you'd like to talk about it the next day, and ask when a good time for her would be to talk. This makes her responsible for her actions.


Now you're reacting with the same lack of respect she's shown you. Don't do it. Take the high road, and don't let it escalate. Don't threaten to throw her laptop out...that's immature, and you're better than that.


Have you talked to her about this in a non-accusative manner? Told her you're concerned? To be fair, I am NOT cheating, and my husband's welcome to read my chat logs, email, or listen to my phone conversations whenever he wants. However, sometimes I'll react if he's reading email over my shoulder or I'll go in another room if I'm on the phone with a friend. I'm not cheating, but I like having a little privacy. Your wife may be the same way. Talk about it, and make some ground rules so you both feell respected.


Again, it's a confrontation, much of which is caused by blaming. Maybe try, "I really missed you. Can I give you a hug?" or "When you didn't hug or kiss me, I felt _(sad, lonely, etc.)__. I know that wasn't your intention. Could we do something differently next time?"


It might be bullshit, but you asked her about it, and she gave you an answer. Maybe she's cheating, but you don't know that for sure. Let this one go.


I'm glad you're thinking of your son...that's the most important thing, isn't it.

Why haven't you two tried counseling? If she's in school, there should be free mental health services available. There's also a ton of other free help if you're willing to investigate. Even if you don't stay together, you need to learn how to respect eachother and communicate effectively for the good of your son in the future. Therapy should be your first course of action. If you try and try and it's just not working after you've tried everything, then you can start thinking about divorce. There's lons of stuff online about how to file the papers and get proceedings going yourself if it comes to that.

Read the books, do the work, get therapy, respect eachother, learn how to communicate effectively, THEN talk about divorce if the therapy doesn't work.

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice, you've given me alot to think about. I'm going to do some research and see if theres any counseling available, preferably free. More overdue bills came in so I have to talk to her about that.

 

[MR.GGG]

Sweeet E Just Gave You

... about $1,000 worth of marriage advice.

A marriage ain't over until BOTH of you want it to be. In this case the lack of respect seems to come and center around the $$ issues. If she is spending like this you may need to gain better control of the money in the household. Give her a BUDGET. Limit her phone calls by using prepaid plans and take long distance off your basic service - $500 in phone calls back to the islands is outrageous in most family budgets!!

She likely doesn't resepct you because no matter what you say about the money issues she is acting like a brat and ignoring you and aLL you can do in response to that is yell at her and as SweeetE pointed out that just puts you at a level with her. If she doesn't respect you for one thing like money then her rrespect for you as a lover and a HUSBAND is going to suffer too. It sounds like she's already exploring how far she can push you. If she can zoom you on the money she'll no doubt be a brat about that too and see if she can screw around on you. If you catch her and lay down the law then maybe - just maybe she'll behave other wiseat this point and from what you described she has "left" the marriage already and is just using you for $$.

I hate to sound sexist here but some women need to be treated like children (ya ya ya some guys do too) . If she is going to be completely irresponsible money wise take that right away from her. Cancel her cell phone too. Cancel credit cards and limit the amount of cash she gets from you to shopping for food and essentials. Her "allowance" can be the money she gets as a student. If she runs out of that then she runs out. Keep RECORDS of what she spends - how much and on what. If you do end up in divorce court you'll need those records to explain why the marriage ended - NOT because you were mean and nasty but because SHE was spending like you were making 5 times your present salary!!

Don't LET her act like a 13 yr old brat and she may still respct you. She has to kow that if she splits with you (and you're barely making enough money now) you are NOT going to have a lot to spare for anything but child support. Unless she latches onto another sucker who she can bleed dry finacially then she is in for a very rough time.

Is there an IMMIGRATION issue going on too? You mentioned the VI's. Is she naturalized yet or does she have to wait a certain period of time for that to happen. She may just be playing you for a sucker all 'round. Is your son YOURS? Did she have him in VI or in the States?

I think your eyes are open but you're refusing to see things or have been up till now. Good luck.

 

[Gods_Favorite]

... about $1,000 worth of marriage advice.

A marriage ain't over until BOTH of you want it to be. In this case the lack of respect seems to come and center around the $$ issues. If she is spending like this you may need to gain better control of the money in the household. Give her a BUDGET. Limit her phone calls by using prepaid plans and take long distance off your basic service - $500 in phone calls back to the islands is outrageous in most family budgets!!

She likely doesn't resepct you because no matter what you say about the money issues she is acting like a brat and ignoring you and aLL you can do in response to that is yell at her and as SweeetE pointed out that just puts you at a level with her. If she doesn't respect you for one thing like money then her rrespect for you as a lover and a HUSBAND is going to suffer too. It sounds like she's already exploring how far she can push you. If she can zoom you on the money she'll no doubt be a brat about that too and see if she can screw around on you. If you catch her and lay down the law then maybe - just maybe she'll behave other wiseat this point and from what you described she has "left" the marriage already and is just using you for $$.

I hate to sound sexist here but some women need to be treated like children (ya ya ya some guys do too) . If she is going to be completely irresponsible money wise take that right away from her. Cancel her cell phone too. Cancel credit cards and limit the amount of cash she gets from you to shopping for food and essentials. Her "allowance" can be the money she gets as a student. If she runs out of that then she runs out. Keep RECORDS of what she spends - how much and on what. If you do end up in divorce court you'll need those records to explain why the marriage ended - NOT because you were mean and nasty but because SHE was spending like you were making 5 times your present salary!!

Don't LET her act like a 13 yr old brat and she may still respct you. She has to kow that if she splits with you (and you're barely making enough money now) you are NOT going to have a lot to spare for anything but child support. Unless she latches onto another sucker who she can bleed dry finacially then she is in for a very rough time.

Is there an IMMIGRATION issue going on too? You mentioned the VI's. Is she naturalized yet or does she have to wait a certain period of time for that to happen. She may just be playing you for a sucker all 'round. Is your son YOURS? Did she have him in VI or in the States?

I think your eyes are open but you're refusing to see things or have been up till now. Good luck.

Thanks for your advice, I know my son is mine he was born here thats not an issue, but I am definently going to put her on a short lease financially, I would like more guys to respond to this thread.

 

[fgarvb1]

How long have you two been married? How old are you two?

How long did you know each other before you got married?

Stop and think for a minute, do you think you are getting fucked over here?

What do you really think is going to happen.

Seems to me talking to someone on the computer by video phone or even voice would be one hell of a lot cheaper..even free.

 

[Ezzy]

Seems to me talking to someone on the computer by video phone or even voice would be one hell of a lot cheaper..even free.

I talked day in day out 6,500 miles apart using yahoo and msn voice chat.

Then I also used a couple of the VioP programs when they had them being beta tested, at no charge.

I used to use them when my wife was out of her house and using her cell phone.

Get a hold of your finances G_F or it will all come tumbling down when you go bankrupt.

Get her involved with the finances too, so she can see that the money is not there for her to waste, but you will need to tighten your belt too, how can you ask her to save money if you blow it on frills (like food (jk)).

If she was to even get a part time job it would not help enough to get you out of the mess, you need to change the thinking in the relationship first, the finances will change more by a change in both your attitudes than in a part time wage coming in. (Just my opinion but it appears to work out that way).

 

[SweetErika]

I talked day in day out 6,500 miles apart using yahoo and msn voice chat.

Then I also used a couple of the VioP programs when they had them being beta tested, at no charge.

I used to use them when my wife was out of her house and using her cell phone.

Get a hold of your finances G_F or it will all come tumbling down when you go bankrupt.

Get her involved with the finances too, so she can see that the money is not there for her to waste, but you will need to tighten your belt too, how can you ask her to save money if you blow it on frills (like food (jk)).

If she was to even get a part time job it would not help enough to get you out of the mess, you need to change the thinking in the relationship first, the finances will change more by a change in both your attitudes than in a part time wage coming in. (Just my opinion but it appears to work out that way).

That's excellent advice. "It's never about the money" keeps running through my head, and we've found that to be true. We don't make very much, but we have similiar financial ideas and goals, so we live and save very well. When we have fought about money, there's always been an underlying issue...respect, trust, power, control, fear...and once we get down to it and really start to solve it (a lot of compromise and sometimes giving up/in), the money problems disappear like magic. When the relationship is strong, you find ways to work with what you have and don't allow it to cause problems.

Practically, we manage the finances together and have made groundrules along the way. For example, we pay bills together and usually talk about spending more than $20 on things for ourselves.

G_F, if you want help, it's out there. You may have to do some deep digging, but you'll find it if you want to. In addition to the school, the county and/or state should have services, especially since there's a child involved, and some therapists operate on an income-dependent sliding scale. In the meantime, check out those books from the library...you can make dramatic changes in a couple of pages.