How to Become Less Human, Redux

[vrosej10]

a vulture watches on; as does a photographer
as a toddler goes foetal in a parched field,
her framework clearly visible beneath too thin skin
belly mimicking prosperity; she really needs protein
the vulture inches closer, as does the photographer
both circling, waiting for the final tiny wheeze;
the vulture takes a moment to preen
and the photography cleans his lens


Hi guys, this is a substantial rewrite of the original. I should have gone this way in the first place.

 

[twelveoone]

better,
still going for it?
think about the title, judgmental?
Circling?
I think someone said, the guy killed himself. The photographer, probably thought that picture may have done a world of good. i.e. if given a choice of livin' in LA and snappin' beaver or going to Sudan...

 

[butters]

a vulture watches on; as does a photographer
as a toddler goes foetal in a parched field,
her framework clearly visible beneath too thin skin
belly mimicking prosperity; she really needs protein
the vulture inches closer, as does the photographer
both circling, waiting for the final tiny wheeze;
the vulture takes a moment to preen
and the photography cleans his lens


Hi guys, this is a substantial rewrite of the original. I should have gone this way in the first place.

definitely a stronger ending, V.

if i may offer some suggestions? - you know i'm not fussed if they don't suit your taste and aren't used

i don't like how L's 1 and 2 sit .. it's down to 'watches on' and 'goes foetal in a parched field'. they could be pared back further, and (as i mentioned before) the 'parched field' could be made 'barren' to act as direct contrast with the word 'foetal' and clearly enough stating crops can't grow here either.

'watch' feels a little weak to me, even though it could be symbolic of time... maybe watch, and wait/ watch, wait, or simply have them waiting (for the easy meal, the perfect shot). ok, maybe not, since there's 'waiting' in the following lines'. i thought about 'view' and 'regard' but maybe these are too cold and detached, even for the tone you wished to create here. 'a' works, for me, because it makes this tiny scrap of person about to die less of an individual (so many, so so many), less vital than the very much alive vulture and photographer. as an individual she counts for less, even whilst her image shouts out around the globe - her plight and the plight of all the children she represents far more important than any birds of prey.

the vulture and photographer watch
a toddler, foetal in a barren field,


her framework clearly visible beneath too thin skin
belly mimicking prosperity; she really needs protein

imo you could lose 'her' here. is the sex of the child important? maybe so, suggesting the dying hope of future generations, the barren nature of 'mother' earth at that time and location... but so many children, of both sexes, died of starvation... up to you. 'too thin skin' sounds better to my ear as 'skin too thin', and do you absolutely 100% need 'she really needs protein'? prosperity would suggest a good diet, including the much needed protein. for me it's a case of less is more, here, v. and i'm even going to query the use of 'toddler' - an emotive word for an emotive write. i guess it conjures images of soft-fleshed, round of limb laughing kiddies and i can see why it should work with what follows - however, that photograph stark in my mind what i see isn't a toddler but some dust-dry husk, a once-was child about to stop struggling for the next breath. even though she wasn't yet dead when the shot was taken, the thread of life was simply too thin. i'm not sure 'child' would work as well for you, or me come to think of it, but it'd have to be treated carefully so as not to overload the 'barren field' image i already suggested.


the vulture and photographer watch
a toddler, foetal in a barren field,
framework clearly visible beneath skin too thin,
belly mimicking prosperity.


the vulture inches closer, as does the photographer
both circling, waiting for the final tiny wheeze;

inches ... hmmm ... shuffles? creeps? sidles? inches just doesn't feel strong enough for what you are conveying here, v. something to convey the covertness of the movements but also to denote the feel of them.. and maybe instead of keeping them apart (the vulture and photographer), go more simply with
'they inch/shuffle/whatever forward, both circling,'...

how about ?

they sidle closer, both circling,
waiting on that final, tiny wheeze;

the vulture takes a moment to preen
and the photographer cleans his lens
that is so damned strong, V, and i believe conveys absolutely the sense of disassociation i think you wanted to get us to see the cameraman as experiencing.


this looks a lot, sorry, but it's not - tiny tweaks that'd pull this one drum-taut. (imho, 'course )

 

[butters]

better,
still going for it?
think about the title, judgmental?
Circling?
I think someone said, the guy killed himself. The photographer, probably thought that picture may have done a world of good. i.e. if given a choice of livin' in LA and snappin' beaver or going to Sudan...

the thing is, 12oh, i think V intends this to come from a judgemental position, as this is how she felt about the shot and how it came about. i don't agree with it, but can see it's a strong enough emotion to drive this piece.

 

[twelveoone]

the vulture takes a moment to preen
and the photography cleans his lens
that is so damned strong, V, and i believe conveys absolutely the sense of disassociation i think you wanted to get us to see the cameraman as experiencing.

-er, -er, photographer

 

[butters]

-er, -er, photographer

oops! i forgot to mention that.

yeah, V ... photographer, lol

 

[Senna Jawa]

a vulture watches on; as does a photographer
as a toddler goes foetal in a parched field,
her framework clearly visible beneath too thin skin
belly mimicking prosperity; she really needs protein
the vulture inches closer, as does the photographer
both circling, waiting for the final tiny wheeze;
the vulture takes a moment to preen
and the photography cleans his lens


Hi guys, this is a substantial rewrite of the original. I should have gone this way in the first place.

Here are my comments:

• L3: words "clearly" and "too" should be removed.
• L4: No good. The first part is a complication and a distraction. The second part is poetically impotent. It has many faults. Let me mention just one: even in the real life when someone says "really" then it sounds very weak, insincere, like they don't believe it themselves, and have to convince themselves with that really (or they want to cheat us).
• Shouldn't "photography" read "photographer" in the last line?

And a suggestion:

• L3: her stick bones and swelled belly stretching thin skin

Perhaps you may find still a better line or modification. Also, I like simplicity:

• L1:a vulture and photographer watch on
• L5:the vulture and photographer inch closer

Then you don't need "both" in L6. Simpler means more meaningful, not crowded by and lost in the grammar.

Good luck,

 

[Senna Jawa]

A meta-comment

(A telling silence. Disquieting. )

A reflection (only a small portion of it applies to v.):

The goal of the given poem was humanistic. Of course the idea was to do so poetically. But poetry is egoistic. She will not charm when she is not at the very center of the attention. She demands that she is the object of desire, and that everything else is secondary.

This is why vrosej didn't have a chance. Under the given assumptions the goal of writing a poem was self-contradictory. The plan, already in advance, didn't leave anything significant for the reader as a coauthor.

There are innumerably many poems about great tragedies. But they are very rarely strong as poems. Straight factual report beats almost all of them.

===

Authors often assume (I am not talking about vrosej!) that a tragic occasion calls for or justifies certain liberties, that it gives them a license to use high language. The opposite is true. When the occasion overwhelms poetry, so much that by comparison poetry may feel like a childish game, then one should be even more conscientious of avoiding any beautifiers, any pathos, ..., any bullshit. One should be extremely careful and sensitive.

There is a danger for an author of making an impression that s/he is trying to use the tragedy to put on their resume one more good deed/poem; in other words, there might be a suspicion/impression that the victims got used.

===

Despite my previous post, the poem overall had a clear inclination toward noble simplicity. It's clear that vrosej can write well. The problem was strategic. Possibly it has affected the author's style adversely, against her better judgement.

 

[vrosej10]

(A telling silence. Disquieting. )

A reflection (only a small portion of it applies to v.):

The goal of the given poem was humanistic. Of course the idea was to do so poetically. But poetry is egoistic. She will not charm when she is not at the very center of the attention. She demands that she is the object of desire, and that everything else is secondary.

This is why vrosej didn't have a chance. Under the given assumptions the goal of writing a poem was self-contradictory. The plan, already in advance, didn't leave anything significant for the reader as a coauthor.

There are innumerably many poems about great tragedies. But they are very rarely strong as poems. Straight factual report beats almost all of them.

===

Authors often assume (I am not talking about vrosej!) that a tragic occasion calls for or justifies certain liberties, that it gives them a license to use high language. The opposite is true. When the occasion overwhelms poetry, so much that by comparison poetry may feel like a childish game, then one should be even more conscientious of avoiding any beautifiers, any pathos, ..., any bullshit. One should be extremely careful and sensitive.

There is a danger for an author of making an impression that s/he is trying to use the tragedy to put on their resume one more good deed/poem; in other words, there might be a suspicion/impression that the victims got used.

===

Despite my previous post, the poem overall had a clear inclination toward noble simplicity. It's clear that vrosej can write well. The problem was strategic. Possibly it has affected the author's style adversely, against her better judgement.

Nobody in their right mind expects a pat on the back from you and the last paragraph was as close as I am gunna get. That's not an attack; you are a hard task master and at this point, I am ready for one. Someone who cannot take criticism should give up writing! In my defense, this was a difficult subject and a hard one to pull off, one I certainly haven't got the chops for yet, but few have.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Nobody in their right mind expects a pat on the back from you

Both wings have to be well developed to fly: the ability to admire, and to be critical. I am happy when I read strong poems.

and the last paragraph was as close as I am gunna get.

You have presented a text on which you are working. I thought that I was invited too to add my two cents (perhaps it was an overinterpretation on my part ).

In my defense, this was a difficult subject and a hard one to pull off, one I certainly haven't got the chops for yet, but few have.

You have avoided the blatant pitfalls like telling us that the photographer was a cold-blooded pro, insensitive, ...--you have left to the reader to dot the "i". Instead of going poetically wrong, you set up a juxtaposition (vulture v. photographer). You do know the stuff and more. But even if in addition to the said "dot" there was a puzzle to solve (and it's only right that there was no artificiality of this kind), still too little would be left for the reader. The reader should be induced into a feeling or reflection of something that transcends quite far beyond the material at the hand (sorry for stating all these..., no offense meant). Thus you could consider a different framework for your poem, except that it'd be a totally different poem, even if based on the same material. Under the assumption: a poem about the dying child (with a vulture waiting), and a too strictly professional photographer, and that's it (which sounds as a desirable simplicity, but this time it seems to be a dead end), I don't see a chance for a reader's part which would be both: truly induced by (related to) the poem, and go significantly further.

I don't want to overstate my opinion. There are still and always some possibilities, especially that opinions are not stated formally, and there is no end to some ways to go around them. For instance one could compose a musical poem, based on repetitions, which would create mood, etc. Nevertheless, it would not be a perfection of your poem but a new kind of a poem, which would play with different artistic means--while you meant, as your text suggests, a pure poem, ascetic.

 

[vrosej10]

Both wings have to be well developed to fly: the ability to admire, and to be critical. I am happy when I read strong poems.
You have presented a text on which you are working. I thought that I was invited too to add my two cents (perhaps it was an overinterpretation on my part ).
You have avoided the blatant pitfalls like telling us that the photographer was a cold-blooded pro, insensitive, ...--you have left to the reader to dot the "i". Instead of going poetically wrong, you set up a juxtaposition (vulture v. photographer). You do know the stuff and more. But even if in addition to the said "dot" there was a puzzle to solve (and it's only right that there was no artificiality of this kind), still too little would be left for the reader. The reader should be induced into a feeling or reflection of something that transcends quite far beyond the material at the hand (sorry for stating all these..., no offense meant). Thus you could consider a different framework for your poem, except that it'd be a totally different poem, even if based on the same material. Under the assumption: a poem about the dying child (with a vulture waiting), and a too strictly professional photographer, and that's it (which sounds as a desirable simplicity, but this time it seems to be a dead end), I don't see a chance for a reader's part which would be both: truly induced by (related to) the poem, and go significantly further.

I don't want to overstate my opinion. There are still and always some possibilities, especially that opinions are not stated formally, and there is no end to some ways to go around them. For instance one could compose a musical poem, based on repetitions, which would create mood, etc. Nevertheless, it would not be a perfection of your poem but a new kind of a poem, which would play with different artistic means--while you meant, as your text suggests, a pure poem, ascetic.

Don't get me wrong; I appreciate your two cents! I just find you scary. If I wasn't hitting it, I wasn't hitting with this one. The best way to learn is from mistakes.

 

[butters]

that picture was so strong, and kouba then vrose's writing got me thinking, that i had to try and work through a couple of my own though they'd likely not stand without the picture to lend them background. what i was looking at, though, were the polarised pov's - well, if not polarised, at least different, the first being knee-jerk judgemental, the second trying to understand the situation more. not intending to sub these, just showing where the others' poems and the image took my thoughts


Pulitzer

vulture shuffles,
circumnavigates a husk
foetal in a barren field,
one eye on the prize.







through a

lens, darkly
a father
tears himself in two

"a picture speaks louder..."
leaves him emptier
than hollow awards

 

[butters]

i have no idea if he was a father.

 

[vrosej10]

that picture was so strong, and kouba then vrose's writing got me thinking, that i had to try and work through a couple of my own though they'd likely not stand without the picture to lend them background. what i was looking at, though, were the polarised pov's - well, if not polarised, at least different, the first being knee-jerk judgemental, the second trying to understand the situation more. not intending to sub these, just showing where the others' poems and the image took my thoughts


Pulitzer

vulture shuffles,
circumnavigates a husk
foetal in a barren field,
one eye on the prize.







through a

lens, darkly
a father
tears himself in two

"a picture speaks louder..."
leaves him emptier
than hollow awards

elegant. I am going to have another try in the lune form. I think the key to hitting this without being preachy might be to use a short form because it reduces the opportunity to preach.

 

[Senna Jawa]

elegant. I am going to have another try in the lune form. I think the key to hitting this without being preachy might be to use a short form because it reduces the opportunity to preach.

But what a poet's role would be? The scene is so explicitly (while tragically) poetic by itself that I don't see what is left for the poet. A poem would have to refer to the incident but would have to be about something else. This doesn't seem to be your goal though.