How Much Is Enough?

[NOIRTRASH]

Recently I came across this writing advice: OMIT WHAT THE READER KNOWS.

So how much detail is enough? If I write ALMOND, TWO-TONED, WINGTIP CUT, OXFORDS, do you know what it looks like?

How about BUTCHER BOY PAJAMA TOP? I thin k Doris Day wore them in one of her movies.

 

[sr71plt]

Two teaspoons is enough. Not one and certainly not three.

 

[holliday1960]

Recently I came across this writing advice: OMIT WHAT THE READER KNOWS.

So how much detail is enough? If I write ALMOND, TWO-TONED, WINGTIP CUT, OXFORDS, do you know what it looks like?

How about BUTCHER BOY PAJAMA TOP? I thin k Doris Day wore them in one of her movies.

I do! I do! (but, then...I'm not 20 either) For me, details are crucial in a story. If I can't see the picture you painted, then I close the book and move on. And, two teaspoons does seem about right to me.

 

[DwellerDark]

It probably depends on your writing style. I try to be somewhat minimalist (at least in my more recent writing), so if a detail isn't at all important to the story and doesn't enhance it in any way, I'll leave it out and let the reader imagine what they want. I might mention that a woman is wearing a white blouse and jeans, but I'm not going to go into detail about the trim and style of blouse and what brand of jeans she's wearing unless it's actually important to the story, because otherwise it's just a waste of the reader's time and basically just filler (or a form of literary masturbation).

But take that with a grain of salt, because I'm a fan of Hemingway and Carver.

 

[mysluttywife4u]

Depends on the mood.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

If I write "I shot his ass with my lil Ruger pocket pistol" gun nutz likely know what model I mean, and others cant care less. They can likely imagine the pistol was small, 9 ounces I believe it is.

 

[Dream_Operator]

So how much detail is enough? If I write ALMOND, TWO-TONED, WINGTIP CUT, OXFORDS, do you know what it looks like?

I know, but why should I care. Is it relevant to the story?

Too many novice writers (formally me included) focus too much on detailed description and backstory. Characters and plot drive stories, wingtip shoes not so much.

 

[SCM_AUTHOR]

If it's not relevant to the plot, character development or appropriate for the action, leave it!

Example:

She threw her head back in the ecstasy of the moment, her face now parallel with the crack.....

".....in the ceiling, which had been there since those noisy fuckers upstairs had made a spirited attempt to come through their own floor during one of their more enthusiastic bouts of lovemaking. It wasn't that she minded her neighbours getting it on in the room above, it was the genuine fear that one of these days, the ceiling would give and she was going to be an unwilling victim in a humorous porn/snuff film, where John fucked the hot girl beneath him who then crushed the hot girl in the flat beneath her, answering one of man's oldest questions, "how do you fuck two women at the same time?"

While the above is slightly amusing, it's got fuck all to do with the action in play at the start of the paragraph, you the reader are probably screaming at the book "You! Author/Narrator mother fucker! Get back to the fucking action!"

 

[SamScribble]

Usually, I try to follow Elmore Leonard's dictum: Leave out the bits that the readers skip.

 

[TxRad]

Usually, I try to follow Elmore Leonard's dictum: Leave out the bits that the readers skip.

On Lit that would be everything except the sex scenes.

 

[holliday1960]

On Lit that would be everything except the sex scenes.

The real question here could be: How much is not enough? Otherwise, you'd end up with a three line story that would be rejected by the 750 word rule.
"they came; they saw; they conquered." THE END (well, ok...so maybe not in that exact order.)
I want to know where they came, and where they came from; What they saw and what they thought about it; Who they conquered, how they conquered and what was the pay-off for it.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

The real question here could be: How much is not enough? Otherwise, you'd end up with a three line story that would be rejected by the 750 word rule.
"they came; they saw; they conquered." THE END (well, ok...so maybe not in that exact order.)
I want to know where they came, and where they came from; What they saw and what they thought about it; Who they conquered, how they conquered and what was the pay-off for it.

My preference is the Clint Eastwood mystery stranger raised in an orphanage and cast adrift at 18. I like his history to be surprises that cause collisions in the present..

 

[holliday1960]

My preference is the Clint Eastwood mystery stranger raised in an orphanage and cast adrift at 18. I like his history to be surprises that cause collisions in the present..

I'll sit through High Plains Drifter if nothing else is on, but I liked Josey Wales better, and would probably turn either off completely if I got a better offer!

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I'll sit through High Plains Drifter if nothing else is on, but I liked Josey Wales better, and would probably turn either off completely if I got a better offer!

People go to hell for much less than dissing Clint.

 

[TxRad]

Clint could care less. He's to busy shoveling the money in the bank.

 

[rjordan]

The real question here could be: How much is not enough? Otherwise, you'd end up with a three line story that would be rejected by the 750 word rule.
"they came; they saw; they conquered." THE END

That's essentially the next Trump autobio, The Art of the Heel. "I saw, I kissed, I groped, I came."

 

[holliday1960]

People go to hell for much less than dissing Clint.

Sorry...somehow I can't ever seem to get past the vision of that damned orangutan in Anywhichwhatthehellever! He never should have monkeyed around with that storyline! Now, I just see him as a circus performer...like he portrayed in Bronco Billy.
Give me John Wayne any old day of the week...
And as for hell? Been there done that...the devil says I'm too much of a trouble-maker to fool with. I heard he's now trying his hand at writing horror stories about me.

 

[holliday1960]

That's essentially the next Trump autobio, The Art of the Heel. "I saw, I kissed, I groped, I came."

BLAHhahahahahaha!!!!

 

[KayceeCharles]

My yard stick is WHAT ADDS TO THE PLOT?

Is it necessary to the plot for the reader to know the difference between a generic sports convertible vs. a Bugatti Veyron Grandsport w/ T-top or a Lambo Aventador Convertible?

Is it necessary to the plot to know if she's wearing Jimmy Choos or Christian Louboutins? or just general "fuck-me-heels" ?

If it's not necessary, don't include it.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Sorry...somehow I can't ever seem to get past the vision of that damned orangutan in Anywhichwhatthehellever! He never should have monkeyed around with that storyline! Now, I just see him as a circus performer...like he portrayed in Bronco Billy.
Give me John Wayne any old day of the week...
And as for hell? Been there done that...the devil says I'm too much of a trouble-maker to fool with. I heard he's now trying his hand at writing horror stories about me.

I saw THE GREEN BERETS in Vietnam. We laughed our asses off.

In one scene the Sun sets over the Pacific Ocean, and a voice in the audience says THE SUN DONTR SET IN THE EAST. Another voice replied, WHEN YOU CROSS THE DATELINE EVERYTHING IS BACKWARDS.

 

[holliday1960]

I saw THE GREEN BERETS in Vietnam. We laughed our asses off.

In one scene the Sun sets over the Pacific Ocean, and a voice in the audience says THE SUN DONTR SET IN THE EAST. Another voice replied, WHEN YOU CROSS THE DATELINE EVERYTHING IS BACKWARDS.

The Green Berets wasnt a western! No fair comparing apples to oranges now!

That's like bringing up that stupid "detective" movie JW made...what was it??? McQ or some such crap!
One of my favorite westerns was Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid (Paul Newman and Robert Redford) Who would've thunk up that combo in a western?! They just had some sort of on-screen chemistry. Like the Sting...Fabulous!!!
Now, for Clint Eastwood, I liked him as Rowdy in the TV series. And, I liked the character of Dirty Harry (as unrealistic as it was...it wasnt his fault!) The script sucked for the most part, but, he made the character come to life.
"Feelin' lucky, Punk?" Blahhahahha!
Actually, one of John Wayne's best was with Maureen O'hare , The Quiet Man, and again with her in McClintock.
Semi-more modern favorite movies? Mine are Legends of the Fall, The Green Mile, Braveheart, Phenomenon, Meet Joe Black, Scent of a Woman, Goodfellows, Devil's Advocate, Godfather I & II, Carlito's Way...just a few...

 

[rjordan]

The Green Berets wasnt a western!

Very true. It was another of his fake WWII movies with every tired war trope ever invented. They just changed "Tarawa" to "Duq Fuq". It had nothing to do with Vietnam the war or Vietnam the country.


rj

 

[NOIRTRASH]

The Green Berets wasnt a western! No fair comparing apples to oranges now!

That's like bringing up that stupid "detective" movie JW made...what was it??? McQ or some such crap!
One of my favorite westerns was Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid (Paul Newman and Robert Redford) Who would've thunk up that combo in a western?! They just had some sort of on-screen chemistry. Like the Sting...Fabulous!!!
Now, for Clint Eastwood, I liked him as Rowdy in the TV series. And, I liked the character of Dirty Harry (as unrealistic as it was...it wasnt his fault!) The script sucked for the most part, but, he made the character come to life.
"Feelin' lucky, Punk?" Blahhahahha!
Actually, one of John Wayne's best was with Maureen O'hare , The Quiet Man, and again with her in McClintock.
Semi-more modern favorite movies? Mine are Legends of the Fall, The Green Mile, Braveheart, Phenomenon, Meet Joe Black, Scent of a Woman, Goodfellows, Devil's Advocate, Godfather I & II, Carlito's Way...just a few...

List some more of your favorite movies. I write gangster stories and like gangster movies.

 

[holliday1960]

List some more of your favorite movies. I write gangster stories and like gangster movies.

Anything on that theme...I probably own at least one copy on either vhs or dvd. I'm terrible at remembering titles until I see them flash on the screen...let me go see...

Bugsy, Donnie Brasco, Miller's Crossing, Once Upon a Time in America, Bronx Tale, Scarface, Untouchables, Hoffa...(oldies but goodies?) Bonnie & Clyde, Little Caesar, White Heat, Key Largo, Public Enemy, St Valentine's Day Massacre... pretty much anything you might name. I've seen Road to Perdition and Pulp Fiction but wasnt a big fan of either.

There was one about Luciano specifically, but now I can't remember what it was called.
(Now I think about it, I may be thinking of some scenes from a screenplay I performed back in the day for a CSA showcase. We came up short on actors to perform opposite one another in some scenes and I got roped into doing some cold readings to balance the scenes for actors being showcased.)
Ugh! I played Charlie's whore! Go figure! The showcase actor wasn't quite getting the spirit of the scene, so the director stepped in to demonstrate what he was looking for...Oh, yeah! Very Hot! The director got an instant hardon and I developed a huge crush on him! LOL

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Anything on that theme...I probably own at least one copy on either vhs or dvd. I'm terrible at remembering titles until I see them flash on the screen...let me go see...

Bugsy, Donnie Brasco, Miller's Crossing, Once Upon a Time in America, Bronx Tale, Scarface, Untouchables, Hoffa...(oldies but goodies?) Bonnie & Clyde, Little Caesar, White Heat, Key Largo, Public Enemy, St Valentine's Day Massacre... pretty much anything you might name. I've seen Road to Perdition and Pulp Fiction but wasnt a big fan of either.

There was one about Luciano specifically, but now I can't remember what it was called.
(Now I think about it, I may be thinking of some scenes from a screenplay I performed back in the day for a CSA showcase. We came up short on actors to perform opposite one another in some scenes and I got roped into doing some cold readings to balance the scenes for actors being showcased.)
Ugh! I played Charlie's whore! Go figure! The showcase actor wasn't quite getting the spirit of the scene, so the director stepped in to demonstrate what he was looking for...Oh, yeah! Very Hot! The director got an instant hardon and I developed a huge crush on him! LOL

I met Al Capone's grandson a few years ago. Friendly but odd. Looks like Al.

Are you a screenplay writer?