How liberal is your society?

[Andante]

A while ago the BDSM posters face pictures thread got a little side-tracked, discussing the legal and social implications of belonging to a sexual minority like the BDSM community.
Today I came across an online news-article from Norway that is in stark contrast to some of the horror stories you people came up with, revealing middle-age-minded attitudes in some countries.
This sparked an interest to know how each of you view the legal and social attitudes of your respective countries and local societies. Are they liberal, discriminating or downright appalling?

The following is my translation of the afore-mentioned news-article:
Norwegian Police was summoned, as two women and a man in Nittedal had trouble when experimenting with a threesome and handcuffs.

The two women had been shackled to each other and subsequently to the bed. In the early hours of the morning the three lovers realised that one of the sets of handcuffs had jammed.

"We received a call, saying that some people couldn't unlock a set of handcuffs after a love session. A patrol with two police constables was sent to the address and soon solved the problem. We regard this episode as a service task", says Operational Manager Trond Aune from Romerike Police District.

 

[alice_underneath]

This sparked an interest to know how each of you view the legal and social attitudes of your respective countries and local societies. Are they liberal, discriminating or downright appalling?

The article below should give you a general idea of the attitudes in the type of suburban community in which I live. [FYI - Montgomery County is a suburb adjacent to Washington, D.C.]


Contentious Sex-Ed Curriculum Halted
Weast Orders Review After Federal Judge Issues Restraining Order

By Lori Aratani
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 6, 2005

The Montgomery County school superintendent called off the planned launch of a new sex education curriculum yesterday, hours after a federal judge issued a temporary restraining order against it.

Superintendent Jerry D. Weast said he was suspending the curriculum, which was to be taught at six schools beginning next week, for the rest of the school year. A statement released last night said that he had ordered a review of the materials for the curriculum before deciding the future of the program.

The restraining order issued by U.S. District Judge Alexander Williams Jr., which was to last 10 days, prohibited the system from beginning the program in which 10th-graders would be shown a video on how to put on a condom and eighth-grade teachers would be allowed to initiate discussions about homosexuality with their students.

"Defendants open up the classroom to the subject of homosexuality and specifically, the moral rightness of the homosexual lifestyle," the judge wrote in a 22-page opinion. "However, the Revised Curriculum presents only one view on the subject -- that homosexuality is a natural and morally correct lifestyle -- to the exclusion of other perspectives."

School officials said the goal of the curriculum was to give students information they needed about the importance of abstinence and the dangers of unprotected sex. Educators also hoped to create a more tolerant atmosphere for students of all sexual orientations.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/05/AR2005050501189.html

In other words, when it comes to tolerance of sexual minorities, suburban America is still in the Dark Ages. Arguing over whether it is ok to tell 14-year-olds that homosexuality is a "natural and morally correct lifestyle".

Downright appalling indeed.

Alice

 

[rosco rathbone]

The article below should give you a general idea of the attitudes in the type of suburban community in which I live. [FYI - Montgomery County is a suburb adjacent to Washington, D.C.]

Montgomery COunty, eh?

I'm from Loudoun Co.

 

[alice_underneath]

Montgomery COunty, eh?

I'm from Loudoun Co.

Lol, Mr. Rathbone. Is this you?

http://www.middleburgonline.com/

 

[graceanne]

The article below should give you a general idea of the attitudes in the type of suburban community in which I live. [FYI - Montgomery County is a suburb adjacent to Washington, D.C.]


Contentious Sex-Ed Curriculum Halted
Weast Orders Review After Federal Judge Issues Restraining Order

By Lori Aratani
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 6, 2005

The Montgomery County school superintendent called off the planned launch of a new sex education curriculum yesterday, hours after a federal judge issued a temporary restraining order against it.

Superintendent Jerry D. Weast said he was suspending the curriculum, which was to be taught at six schools beginning next week, for the rest of the school year. A statement released last night said that he had ordered a review of the materials for the curriculum before deciding the future of the program.

The restraining order issued by U.S. District Judge Alexander Williams Jr., which was to last 10 days, prohibited the system from beginning the program in which 10th-graders would be shown a video on how to put on a condom and eighth-grade teachers would be allowed to initiate discussions about homosexuality with their students.

"Defendants open up the classroom to the subject of homosexuality and specifically, the moral rightness of the homosexual lifestyle," the judge wrote in a 22-page opinion. "However, the Revised Curriculum presents only one view on the subject -- that homosexuality is a natural and morally correct lifestyle -- to the exclusion of other perspectives."

School officials said the goal of the curriculum was to give students information they needed about the importance of abstinence and the dangers of unprotected sex. Educators also hoped to create a more tolerant atmosphere for students of all sexual orientations.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/05/AR2005050501189.html

In other words, when it comes to tolerance of sexual minorities, suburban America is still in the Dark Ages. Arguing over whether it is ok to tell 14-year-olds that homosexuality is a "natural and morally correct lifestyle".

Downright appalling indeed.

Alice

Out of curiousity sake as a 10th grader I would have found it unacceptable if someone wanted to show me how to put on a condom. I was a virgin, I had ever intention of remaining a virgin, and I quite frankly didn't (and don't) consider my sex life (or lack there of) to be the schools business.

But then, my mother always took me out of sex ed. We'd already discussed anything they could tell me, and she also didn't figure that having sex education in a public setting was cool. Want to talk embarrassment? Be the only 10 year old with a B cup during sex ed. After that I never had to sit through sex ed.

 

[sphynx's dragon]

First let me say I'll try VERY hard not to let this turn into a rant, and second I have nothing against christianity in general. Now that being said, Sexually speaking we live in a unbelievablely repressive country. As a whole we are getting more and more restrictive not less. As much as I hate to say it, it's the fault of the right wing extremists. People who FORCE their religous beliefs on others tick me off. It seems as if those in power, mainly the withered hands on the controls of the senate and congress, believe that we ALL MUST do as THEY see is the RIGHT thing. People blame the presidents, but really it's the 80 year old men in the houses that make the laws. People that have been there for 20, 30 or even more years! Lost touch with reality I say. Anyways, our society is not liberal. Sometimes I get a glimmer of hope, but it generally doesn't last long before getting squashed. <grumbles off to increase donation to NCSF>

 

[Andante]

In other words, when it comes to tolerance of sexual minorities, suburban America is still in the Dark Ages. Arguing over whether it is ok to tell 14-year-olds that homosexuality is a "natural and morally correct lifestyle".

Downright appalling indeed.

Alice

That is indeed appalling.

Out of curiousity sake as a 10th grader I would have found it unacceptable if someone wanted to show me how to put on a condom. I was a virgin, I had ever intention of remaining a virgin, and I quite frankly didn't (and don't) consider my sex life (or lack there of) to be the schools business.

But then, my mother always took me out of sex ed. We'd already discussed anything they could tell me, and she also didn't figure that having sex education in a public setting was cool. Want to talk embarrassment? Be the only 10 year old with a B cup during sex ed. After that I never had to sit through sex ed.

Well, I have to say that I couldn't disagree more! I know of no society that couldn't benefit from a lot more sensible information about sex. And I mean all aspects, including love, jealousy, emotional insecurity, STD's, the practicalities of safe sex, sexual minorities (including BDSM), homosexuality, bisexuality, etc., etc.
I also mean practically all age groups. School is a good place to start, but look around and you will find plenty of evidence that the adult population could benefit from some enlightenment too! Now, how to put the message across to those most in need of it, that is another issue.
I don't remember that we had any explicit sexual information until the 8th grade (I was 13, turned 14 during that year). The information we then received was quite comprehensive, but I don't recall any information about BDSM, though! Homosexuality was certainly explained in a sensible way.

I am not saying your mother wasn't capable of telling you everything you needed, but let's be honest; Few parents are, and even fewer will actually do it. Besides, most kids I know would much prefer to discuss these matters with their teachers, as opposed to their parents. I know I did!
And you completely disregard a major part; The informed discussion. That won't take place in a parent/child situation, and the aspects unfamiliar to the parent in question will not be explained. Finally, having had the same information, the kids are more likely to take the discussion further on their own.

 

[graceanne]

That is indeed appalling.


Well, I have to say that I couldn't disagree more! I know of no society that couldn't benefit from a lot more sensible information about sex. And I mean all aspects, including love, jealousy, emotional insecurity, STD's, the practicalities of safe sex, sexual minorities (including BDSM), homosexuality, bisexuality, etc., etc.
I also mean practically all age groups. School is a good place to start, but look around and you will find plenty of evidence that the adult population could benefit from some enlightenment too! Now, how to put the message across to those most in need of it, that is another issue.
I don't remember that we had any explicit sexual information until the 8th grade (I was 13, turned 14 during that year). The information we then received was quite comprehensive, but I don't recall any information about BDSM, though! Homosexuality was certainly explained in a sensible way.

I am not saying your mother wasn't capable of telling you everything you needed, but let's be honest; Few parents are, and even fewer will actually do it. Besides, most kids I know would much prefer to discuss these matters with their teachers, as opposed to their parents. I know I did!
And you completely disregard a major part; The informed discussion. That won't take place in a parent/child situation, and the aspects unfamiliar to the parent in question will not be explained. Finally, having had the same information, the kids are more likely to take the discussion further on their own.

To tell the truth for sex education to be available makes good sense to me. But what about people like me, who already knew everything they can teach me? People who's religious beliefs keep them from extra marital sex? I don't believe people like me shoudl be forcing my beliefs on other people, but neither should everyone else be forcing their beliefs on me or my kids! I feel that the parents should teach their children what they believe, and that they should have a right to refuse sex ed. And when it's in health class, it's not an optional thing. If a parent makes a huge fuss it is, but if they don't the school will just teach them without anyone, but the kid, knowing different.

Beyond that, they don't seperate the sexed during sex ed. It's fucking embarrassing. Especially when you're younger and all the kids (including boys) turn around in their seats and stare at you. Then after class they bring those little pamplets and say 'where are you?' on the graph. I'm glad that the majority of kids don't develop as quickly as I did, but i have never been more humiliated in my entire life.

 

[Andante]

To tell the truth for sex education to be available makes good sense to me. But what about people like me, who already knew everything they can teach me?

I find it very hard to believe that you already knew everything they could teach you! And if that was the case, the level of education in school really needed improvement!

People who's religious beliefs keep them from extra marital sex? I don't believe people like me shoudl be forcing my beliefs on other people, but neither should everyone else be forcing their beliefs on me or my kids!

Who is talking about beliefs? The issue is knowledge, not belief! And what has sexual information got to do with extra marital sex?

I feel that the parents should teach their children what they believe, and that they should have a right to refuse sex ed.

I agree that every parent should tell their kids exactly what they think and believe, but I don't see why parents should have a right to keep information away from their kids. Let them know what you think and believe, and prepare them as good as you can, so they can make their own decisions and form their own beliefs on a truly informed basis.

Beyond that, they don't seperate the sexed during sex ed. It's fucking embarrassing. Especially when you're younger and all the kids (including boys) turn around in their seats and stare at you. Then after class they bring those little pamplets and say 'where are you?' on the graph. I'm glad that the majority of kids don't develop as quickly as I did, but i have never been more humiliated in my entire life.

If that's what you felt, and todays kids feels, it's a very clear sign that they need MORE information and debate, not less! I don't recall anyone in my class being embarrased, apart from one girl who was a Jehova Witness and one boy who was from a very christian family. We all felt sorry for them, but noone scorned them.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Lol, Mr. Rathbone. Is this you?

http://www.middleburgonline.com/

Not too far from there.

 

[alice_underneath]

To tell the truth for sex education to be available makes good sense to me. But what about people like me, who already knew everything they can teach me? People who's religious beliefs keep them from extra marital sex? I don't believe people like me shoudl be forcing my beliefs on other people, but neither should everyone else be forcing their beliefs on me or my kids! I feel that the parents should teach their children what they believe, and that they should have a right to refuse sex ed. And when it's in health class, it's not an optional thing. If a parent makes a huge fuss it is, but if they don't the school will just teach them without anyone, but the kid, knowing different.

Graceanne,

Sex ed, in my community, is 100% optional. Every child enrolled in the program needs signed permission from a parent or guardian. The permission form explicitly lists the topics to be covered:

Male and female anatomy
Sexually transmitted diseases, including AIDS
Birth Control
Pregnancy

If the parent refuses permission for a child's enrollment in this program, the child spends the semester learning about relatively benign "family life" issues.

The sex ed program itself is fantastic - insofar as it teaches about traditional, heterosexual relations. [At least we don't live in the backwaters of Texas, where - as incredible as it seems - some communities are actually engaged in debate over whether sex ed should consist of an Abstinence-Only program and nothing else!]

My son (currently in 8th grade) is studying for an exam in which he will be tested on the causes, symptoms, and cures (if any) for a wide range of STDs (chlamydia, genital warts, etc.).

Next unit: he'll be tested on the various types of birth control.... the way they work, failure rates, etc.

This is way more information than I could recall off the top of my head. And it is absolutely critical for the health and well-being of my child.

Alice

 

[FurryFury]

If only parents would educate their children about these issues including condom use. I think that would be great.

Unfortunately, too many simply bury their heads in the sand and hope nothing will happen. This often leads to teen pregnancies, date rape, and sexual diseases.

I'm sorry to say teaching abstinence until marriage doesn't work this has been proven in many studies.

More seriously this message can warp a child.

I absolutely believe it lead me to marry my rapist and live in hell with him for, altogether, ten years. I know many other females who have been harmed by this message being drummed into them.

How liberal is my society? Not very, here in the Deep South also known as The Bible Belt, where I live and work, society is not very liberal at all.

Fury

 

[Netzach]

What I remember of sex ed was that it was pretty scientific, sex-segregated, well-intentioned and horribly embarrassing and funny to naive 6th graders who would, mostly, stay virgins till college, not necessarily wanting to do so, but largely grossed out by the prospects before us.

I was horribly teased for my lack of development, other of my friends teased for their development. If you think that sex ed class was what pointed this out though, or singled anyone out, you're ignoring the basic fact that people have eyes and people are not able to cope with difference of any kind in 8th grade.

 

[alice_underneath]

First let me say I'll try VERY hard not to let this turn into a rant, and second I have nothing against christianity in general. Now that being said, Sexually speaking we live in a unbelievablely repressive country. As a whole we are getting more and more restrictive not less. As much as I hate to say it, it's the fault of the right wing extremists. People who FORCE their religous beliefs on others tick me off. It seems as if those in power, mainly the withered hands on the controls of the senate and congress, believe that we ALL MUST do as THEY see is the RIGHT thing. People blame the presidents, but really it's the 80 year old men in the houses that make the laws. People that have been there for 20, 30 or even more years! Lost touch with reality I say. Anyways, our society is not liberal. Sometimes I get a glimmer of hope, but it generally doesn't last long before getting squashed. <grumbles off to increase donation to NCSF>

Unfortunately, not all of the sanctimonious faux-religious hypocrites in this country are octogenarians. Some are much younger.

They tick me off, too. But they also frighten me. They are fanatics, whose own particular flavor of religious intoxication involves an urge to control other people's behavior. In sufficient numbers, they are quite dangerous.

The only difference between these people and the Taliban in Afghanistan or the Wahhabi sect in Saudi Arabia is a difference of degree.

 

[Netzach]

Unfortunately, not all of the sanctimonious faux-religious hypocrites in this country are octogenarians. Some are much younger.

They tick me off, too. But they also frighten me. They are fanatics, whose own particular flavor of religious intoxication involves an urge to control other people's behavior. In sufficient numbers, they are quite dangerous.

The only difference between these people and the Taliban in Afghanistan or the Wahhabi sect in Saudi Arabia is a difference of degree.

Not really. The main difference is that our country doesn't have as long a history of throwing people off cliffs for being gay. We'll have to wait and see what forces prevail.

 

[Netzach]

The article below should give you a general idea of the attitudes in the type of suburban community in which I live. [FYI - Montgomery County is a suburb adjacent to Washington, D.C.]


Contentious Sex-Ed Curriculum Halted
Weast Orders Review After Federal Judge Issues Restraining Order

By Lori Aratani
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 6, 2005

The Montgomery County school superintendent called off the planned launch of a new sex education curriculum yesterday, hours after a federal judge issued a temporary restraining order against it.

Superintendent Jerry D. Weast said he was suspending the curriculum, which was to be taught at six schools beginning next week, for the rest of the school year. A statement released last night said that he had ordered a review of the materials for the curriculum before deciding the future of the program.

The restraining order issued by U.S. District Judge Alexander Williams Jr., which was to last 10 days, prohibited the system from beginning the program in which 10th-graders would be shown a video on how to put on a condom and eighth-grade teachers would be allowed to initiate discussions about homosexuality with their students.

"Defendants open up the classroom to the subject of homosexuality and specifically, the moral rightness of the homosexual lifestyle," the judge wrote in a 22-page opinion. "However, the Revised Curriculum presents only one view on the subject -- that homosexuality is a natural and morally correct lifestyle -- to the exclusion of other perspectives."

School officials said the goal of the curriculum was to give students information they needed about the importance of abstinence and the dangers of unprotected sex. Educators also hoped to create a more tolerant atmosphere for students of all sexual orientations.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/05/AR2005050501189.html

In other words, when it comes to tolerance of sexual minorities, suburban America is still in the Dark Ages. Arguing over whether it is ok to tell 14-year-olds that homosexuality is a "natural and morally correct lifestyle".

Downright appalling indeed.

Alice

It is appalling.

Fortunately, it's a big country.

I'm with Dan Savage on this one. Fight the good fight, but also MOVE. You don't have to put up with cow pat, you can live in cities where people don't give a shit and in states with long histories of being settled by scandinavians who don't care as long as you're not in everyone's face.

 

[alice_underneath]

It is appalling.

Fortunately, it's a big country.

I'm with Dan Savage on this one. Fight the good fight, but also MOVE. You don't have to put up with cow pat, you can live in cities where people don't give a shit and in states with long histories of being settled by scandinavians who don't care as long as you're not in everyone's face.

That's true. And if moving isn't an option, you can help your children develop a healthy attitude by traveling to different parts of the country.

A few years ago, while visiting a friend on Cape Cod, I took my kids to watch a Gay Pride parade in Provincetown.

My daughter said, "Wow! You never see anything like this where we live!"

I said, "I know. That's why we're here."

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think Australia, where I come from originally, has a much more liberal approach to sexuality than the US, but still has a long, long way to go, especially in terms of BDSM. Sex education began in schools at 10-11 yo in my day (60's), and it was very vague and limiting in it's giving of information....for instance, they played a clip of 2 people wandering hand in hand through a garden and said this was an easy way to be caught and become pregnant...my sister 9 years older than me was told a kiss could do it. By the time my children were in school, I allowed them to participate in sex education, but had already raised them with a very liberal attitude and as much information as they wanted. Before 10, apart from the birds and bees stuff, they were well aware of homosexuality (and crossdressing, TG etc.) and that it is not an ailment or something anyone should have to hide and feel guilty about. The school education fell short in most areas, but not as much as when I was a child and had a mother whose sole contribution to education for me was sex was something women had to endure to make babies, that having a baby was the most degrading experience a person could have, and that all men wanted was sex and they would do whatever they had to to get it...of course she was not going to explain what sex actually was, or birth control choices.

Now I live in The Netherlands, it is like a breath of fresh air. Children are raised with a healthy attitude to sex and it is just another part of life as opposed to something to giggle about behind the toilet block at school. LOL, maybe I am blind but I have yet in the 3+ years I have lived here, seen a young pregnant girl or even one with a baby. I love that homosexuality is accepted and it is not unusual or reason for fear to people of the same gender to walk hand in hand in public, kiss publicly, or be open about their sexuality. I also notice a distinct lack of ageism here. Age is not seen as a negative or even a reason for men or women not to be seen acting affectionately in public or being front people on TV ....and I mean women with wrinkles and no plastic surgery are not relegated to behind the scenes work as often happens in the US and OZ unless they have that plastic perfection look.

BDSM is also open and acceptable, though it can be a problem in some workplaces and there are some people who would prefer not to know if you are into kinky things. Still, it is not a problem as it is in Oz and the US, and you do not have to be so concerned with what you do with whom. It is sad that the tide is changing a little in NL in that there is a right wing push to suppress these things, and an undercurrent of racism developing where once it was unheard of. Hopefully it will not gain in popularity and it will remain a liberal and friendly society for all to live in and enjoy the right to make their own choices in their own lives.

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

Not too far from there.

Amazing.

Admittedly, I rarely drive out farther than Dulles. But the image of you in that part of the world is generating a lot of cognitive dissonance for me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

If only parents would educate their children about these issues including condom use. I think that would be great.

Unfortunately, too many simply bury their heads in the sand and hope nothing will happen. This often leads to teen pregnancies, date rape, and sexual diseases.

I'm sorry to say teaching abstinence until marriage doesn't work this has been proven in many studies.

Another sad fact is though people know the benefits of using a condom, many adults decide not to follow the advice, telling themselves it won't happen to them. It is amazing the amount of people who also believe (1) it provides complete protection (the reason I always use the term safer sex instead of safe sex) and (2) that as long as you use one for anal, maybe vaginal, you don't need to bother for oral (what a big gap in the whole safer sex strategy). The abstinence message as you say does not work. There are plenty of people who may have adhered to it themselves, only to marry someone who didn't and gave them an STD, or who cheated on them after marriage and introduced disease into the marriage. While education will never provide 100% protection from all risks, it goes a long way toward providing choice and a safer alternative to not knowing or having limited or distorted facts to go by.

Catalina

 

[rosco rathbone]

Amazing.

Admittedly, I rarely drive out farther than Dulles. But the image of you in that part of the world is generating a lot of cognitive dissonance for me.

Heh Heh Heh.

We are everywhere, Alice. I grew up out there in farm country.

I think Etoile and the late lamented OSG are also DC area kids.

 

[dexwebster]

I'm from Loudoun Co.

Well that's...a bit surreal. I'm currently in Stafford, soon to be in Alexandria.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Well that's...a bit surreal. I'm currently in Stafford, soon to be in Alexandria.

I'm never going back to NOVA---I did my time. My family goes back 300 years in that area and they can't seem to escape.

 

[graceanne]

I find it very hard to believe that you already knew everything they could teach you! And if that was the case, the level of education in school really needed improvement!

Who is talking about beliefs? The issue is knowledge, not belief! And what has sexual information got to do with extra marital sex?

I agree that every parent should tell their kids exactly what they think and believe, but I don't see why parents should have a right to keep information away from their kids. Let them know what you think and believe, and prepare them as good as you can, so they can make their own decisions and form their own beliefs on a truly informed basis.

If that's what you felt, and todays kids feels, it's a very clear sign that they need MORE information and debate, not less! I don't recall anyone in my class being embarrased, apart from one girl who was a Jehova Witness and one boy who was from a very christian family. We all felt sorry for them, but noone scorned them.

It is about beliefs. I believe that extra marital sex is a sin. (And before a billion people jump on me, so's gossiping and coveting - everyone sins, including me.) I will be very upset if I find out someone's been teaching my children anything differently. On the other hand I also believe in people's right to choose their beliefs. I don't go telling other people's children that their parents are sinning, and all that. I expect the the same consideration from those people. Namely that they don't go telling my children that it isn't a sin.

People want to yell about their rights, but what about MY rights to raise MY children as I see fit? What about my rights to teach my children MY beliefs? I have as much right as the very liberal athiest has.

That said, I agree that most people with my beliefs are out of line. They feel that they should be able to dictate their beliefs on everyone else. If a parent wants there 15 year old to know how to put on a condom, whatever. A lot of 15 year olds are having sex, and if they're having sex they need to know this information. And if the parents are too lazy to do it, that leaves the schools. I want the right to say that I don't want my FIFTEEN YEAR OLD to know that kind of thing! Especially if said 15 year old is a virgin, and has every intention of remaining so. If I'd started to have sex my mother would have got me birth control and taught me about condoms, but I wasn't having sex! I have only ever slept with my husband and if I have anythig to say about it, that's how it'll stay. I want that for my children.

Plus, giving teenagers birthcontrol doesn't mean that they'll use it. Most won't. They are 'invincible' and that kinda thing 'will never happen to them'. My sister is a prime example of this. My father raised her from 15 on, and he's pretty liberal. She started having sex with her boyfriend, but they didn't like condoms (wasn't as fun), and she was to spacy to remember her pills. Her son was born 6 months after she graduated from highschool.

 

[graceanne]

Another sad fact is though people know the benefits of using a condom, many adults decide not to follow the advice, telling themselves it won't happen to them. It is amazing the amount of people who also believe (1) it provides complete protection (the reason I always use the term safer sex instead of safe sex) and (2) that as long as you use one for anal, maybe vaginal, you don't need to bother for oral (what a big gap in the whole safer sex strategy). The abstinence message as you say does not work. There are plenty of people who may have adhered to it themselves, only to marry someone who didn't and gave them an STD, or who cheated on them after marriage and introduced disease into the marriage. While education will never provide 100% protection from all risks, it goes a long way toward providing choice and a safer alternative to not knowing or having limited or distorted facts to go by.

Catalina

And then, of course, their's drunk sex. Lots of birth control mistakes when you're drunk.