How important is worldbuilding when making a fetish world?

[HHHawkeye]

For those of you who write stories taking place in sci-fi or fantasy or alternate-reality worlds with cultures or magic or technology that mostly just serve the purpose of making a certain sexual fetish a widespread part of the world, how important is it to you that your stories actually make sense in this regard?

I ask because I recently stopped and thought about how hilarious it was that I was thinking so hard about the fucked up and occasionally morbid economics of the setting of my story, a nation where all women are eager submissive slaves, and making sure it at least stood up to enough scrutiny that what goes on in it could be more than superficially discussed without things drastically falling apart. I found myself actually trying to ballpark some reasonably accurate ideas of what the various types of slaves would be worth so I would be able to write auction scenes later without having to puss out when it comes to actually discussing numbers, And I nearly burned a hole in my own skull trying to fix the issue that one of the types of slaves I put in my story literally made no economic sense whatsoever.

And while it's decidedly my way of doing things and I don't think I'm even capable of muscling through writing a story I know doesn't make sense, I became extremely curious how other writers feel about this subject. How much do you care if your fetish worlds make sense? How much scrutiny do you want them to be able to withstand?

 

[SimonDoom]

This is a very interesting question. Your story idea seems like a good illustration of its complexities, because as an erotic concept it seems interesting, but it's going to be hard to tell it in a way that seems plausible. Good luck with that, and keep working at it!

Some thoughts I have:

1. Don't feel you need to explain everything. If you really delve underneath many of the all-time great fantasy/sci fi stories, there are tons of things that are never explained. Readers are fine with that. Game of Thrones has a gazillion plot holes. Most people don't care too much.

2. Avoid the problem of what I call Too Much Magic. Don't ask the reader to suspend disbelief too many times. Come up with One Big Magical idea that distinguishes your world from ours, and maybe a few very small magical ideas, but otherwise, leave the rest to the reader's imagination. As a reader/movie goer, I can suspend my disbelief one time for almost anything if it's done artfully. But I don't want to go through the same process over and over just so you can keep your story moving forward. So my advice is don't make your world too different from this one. Come up with one big idea that explains this crazy country with submissive women. Come up with a few minor more ideas to fill in some of the blanks. And be vague about the rest, or make the rest of it consistent with the world we already know.

3. In the case of your story idea, for example, you need two things. You need a historical explanation why this country developed this culture. It doesn't have to be that convincing; it just has to be told artfully. Second, you probably need an explanation how or why this country was isolated from other countries and cultures, because it's extremely unlikely that a society with constant contact with others would evolve in this way.

So, I imagine a relatively small country, geographically isolated from others (separated by high mountains or deserts, or it's an island), that had some special impetus to evolve the way it did. Maybe it was religious (think: Mormons). Maybe it suffered a plague or demographic disaster that created a reason to form this way. Something like that.

Good luck!

 

[Voboy]

I've not done a huge amount of SF, but what I've done has been pretty successful. I'm a really firm believer that detail is important, but it's just as important that its exposition be organic.

My SF worlds have extensive notes, reminders, and a long glossary on my hard drive. I've got listings of starship types, tables showing ranks in my Fleet, cross-referenced lists of where my characters have served together, what the process for planetary colonization is... a whole host of appendices. I enjoy creating those for their own sake, and for my enjoyment.

A lot of that material makes it into the stories explicitly, but a whole lot more is just there, but not explained. Example: my universe, in the far future, uses shekels. I never explain why. But I KNOW why, as the writer and creator, and that information "exists" somewhere. I feel like that lends versimillitude; everything has a backstory, and my characters all know that backstory, and it's not necessary for them to state it. But it's there.

During exposition, I almost never just come right out and state stuff. Things are trickled out through dialogue, offhand narrative comment, etc. I feel like that's the kind of SF I like to read, sexual or not. Nothing is more boring to me than a character mentioning a device (the "neeblegrub," let's say), and then the writer breaking in to say, "A neeblegrub is a small device used when grooming a dog's tail." I'm more apt to do something like this:

Character A, a man: "I can't find the fucking neeblegrub."

Character B, a woman: "Just use a comb."

A: "It never comes out right with a comb." A crash came down the hall as he emptied his garbage can. "Fuck! I can't find the goddamn thing!"

B: "Well, if you'd gotten a dalmatian instead of a spaniel, this wouldn't be a problem."

A: "The fuck?"

B: "Their tails just need less grooming. A neeblegrub is overkill for a dalmatian. They do fine with some soap and a quick stroke." B laughed. "Like a cock." She wondered to herself whether men used neeblegrubs to masturbate. Hell, maybe that's what had A so pissed. "Dude, just use a comb."

A: "Fuck!" She winced; the rage was growing, and so were the sounds of smashed furniture. "Goddammit. I guess I'll just use a fucking comb."

B: "Attaboy."

A (after a pause): "Can I borrow your comb?"

 

[SynSlave]

My thoughts on world building:

Early in that's all I did. I enjoyed it so much i rarely completed anything, focusing on my imagination and notes more than translating it for a reader. I still exhaust myself doing that when I build a "home-rules" table-top game. From mechanics, stats and rules to maps, history and culture. I enjoy it. But I rarely complete or polish anything that way.

For a while I've been using a write first - notate and construct as I go along. I even do that with characters. Even eye color, emotional traits and such aren't jotted down until later (mostly so I can keep track). The biggest reason why I feel comfortable writing that way is because I know regardless of the amount of planning I attempt I change things when I actually write. So even though it's probably chaotic for others it's been working for me--im the type that you'll find described as a "world builder" in any of the don't be this guy subtitles of a typical writer's workshop.

So I write and take notes; and eventually my world builds itself. The notes just help keep everything glued together.

Haven't applied that to my gaming material yet, but there I have the freedom of ad libing dialogue and making it up on the fly with events--a luxury I don't have after I hit submit.

 

[eroticstoryspinner]

World building is key to successful suspension of disbelief. You can make your world as fantastic as you like but the universe needs to be internally consistent and believable withing the universe. My penal slavery universe is technically a near future alternate history. My break point was that the 13th Amendment to the Constitution was interpreted to allow for terms of slavery as punishment for crimes. I have had an amazing number of people comment that it was one of the first noncon slavery stories that they had read that seemed to be believable. that it could actually happen.

In my opinion at least, it is worth the time investment to create a universe to write in, especially as the world building exercise can also spin off additional stories in the same universe.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I think you the author must know a fair bit about the way your world works, how it ties things together, its belief systems, any basic magic and so on. But I don't think you need to ram all that down a reader's throat, because that's just exposition and info dumps, which aren't story telling. If you know what's going on in your built world, you can draw down on that when it is relevant. But you don't need to explain stuff, just describe what's needed when it's needed. If it's internally coherent, that shines through, I reckon.

It's the same as describing a little suburban cafe - you don't need to spell out the address and precisely describe the layout and the exact number of tables, nor the height of the waitress. But it's handy to know there are trees outside and she's blonde. If she's honey blonde or fake blonde, that's a character detail for later, if you need it.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

I guess you must all think THIS world we actually live in, works then...

 

[oggbashan]

I think it is too easy to overcomplicate matters.

A few differences are enough to start a whole set of "what ifs" and those do not need to be in a long explanation but developed as the characters and readers encounter them.

I think it is easier to be consistent with a few small changes than in a complicated alterate reality.

One example, as oggbashan, is my Tripletit stories set on an obscure, out of the way world that is populated by triple-titted giantesses. In my first story the two spacemen are warned about the dangers of sex with the middle breast and slit but what happens isn't clear until later in the story.

The other example, also as oggbashan, is my Shelacta series which postulate that women are the sexual predators and cannot reach sexual maturity without trapping five men, of whom one must die as the result.

Both have simple changes from a normal reality but exploring what the impact can be of those changes drives the stories. Further differences can be introduced as the series progresses.

 

[Maeven_quinn]

Regarding magic systems, there are few principles that I've learned from listening to other authors and fans.

1. As someone already noted, don't use magic too much. Write a store that suspends a reader's disbelief for one, at most two, core ideas. Write a story about vampires. Don't write a story about space faring vampires fighting xenomorph aliens on a distant steam punk planet.

2. Magical limitations are more important than powers. Write those out for yourself before hand so that you resist the temptation to magica ex machina your characters out of all kinds of trouble. I've been world building for my futanari succubus stories, and I literally have a spell book in my notes describing what can and cannot be done, what are required.

There's something to be said about over explaining a magical system or under explaining it too. In my humble opinion, the author should have a detail "hard" magical system in his head, but not feel the need to communicate every detail to the reader. Others though love detailed magic systems in their novels, so that's mostly a matter of taste.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

You’ve already had excellent fantasy world advice (and a hilarious fantastic needlegrub device). Throwing in my two cents only to suggest that world building is something every author has to do to some extent; few plot devices are so universal that they need no description to drive the story or suspend disbelief. I try to keep the reader in mind, and give enough information that the reader can build his/her version of my world. Detailing versus delineating.

My stories have a lot of finance-industry specific terms and also lots of brand names: they’re not magic or fantastical but have lots of potential to alienate readers. I purposefully mention somethings without any explanation (e.g., “Bloomberg Terminal”, “EDGAR”, “Eleven Madison Park”, “Gucci Gardens sweater”) and other things, I go into detail to explain the importance to the overall plot arc and relationship building (Into a scene exploring multiple facets of a relationship, where the dress is a catalyst: “Hervè Leger is famous for its ‘bandage cut’, which lifts and squeezes and shapes. From the front, all I could see was that my braless cleavage was raised unnaturally high and spilling out of the deep plunging V of the dress. And from the side and back, the exaggerated curve of my ass from the dress’ enhancing bandage cut competed full force with the cartoonish lift of my balconette. How did I ever convince myself that this dress looked ok on me?!?”).

 

[Hypoxia]

Much great advice already.

I've read of classic SF&F pros expending tremendous effort on world-building, generating copious notes, charts, and maps to hang on their workroom wall... only 0.01% of which intrudes into the finished work. It's to inform the writer, not the reader. I do that on a smaller scale to keep track of who's where, when, and why, in my few SF&Fs and all the rest.

Erotica needs world-building -- or re-building of some bit of our banal reality. As recommended, simplicity rocks. Only tell enough to drive or flavor the story; we can get away with a lot of hand-waving and hints so long as we have the scene firmly in mind.

OP world's setup can be handwaved. Spores from somewhere (comet, aliens, evil lab) infest adult humans (and more primates?) skewing sexualities. Effects vary by one's place on the orientation scale, which also influences values of classes of slaves to pervo owners at auction. Are slaves bred for exotic specialties?

I may visualize an ending and build a world to contain it. Easy-peasy. It almost writes itself. I like self-writing stories.

 

[Voboy]

You’ve already had excellent fantasy world advice (and a hilarious fantastic needlegrub device).

Neeblegrub, bub. With a B. You go askin' for a needlegrub when you really need a neeblegrub... well, suffice it to say your spaniel's fucked-up tail won't be your only problem.

See, OP, that's the trouble with my "let it trickle out" method. It does leave room for ambiguity. But, hey! No harm, no foul; there's plenty of ambiguity in real life too, and "real life" is what we want our worlds to look like.

Good thread.

 

[Blind_Justice]

I'm a bit late to the party. Hm. Only empty bowls and the sad spilled remains of colorful drinks on the carpets...

Anyway, the biggest piece of advice I can offer is - be consistent and avoid contradictions.

I was once asked to review a vampire futa horror thing and within the first chapter alone, the author couldn't keep his facts straight. Someone had found a scientific way to transform people into futanari/dickgirls. According to the author, a horribly expensive treatment well out of reach for normal tax payers. Yet there are strip clubs full of them, to the point where religious zealots mount protests. The protag's love interest was a vampire's sex toy, turned into a vampire herself only ten years ago yet she spoke like a 16th-century French noblewoman and - despite being unceremoniously dumped into an alley, had access to enough cash to easily pay for the treatment plus limo service. And when it was time for the main character to turn into a futa herself, the presiding doctor told her "umm, yah, we don't know how it will turn out". I don't know about you, but when supposedly paying an unspeakable sum to turn into a dickgirl, I'd demand every guarantee that the operation ends well for me, right?

One of the few books I put down unfinished. There were good ideas in there, but that thing broke my bullshit-o-meter. The main lead was a freelance comic writer, with a penthouse loft in Manhattan, big enough to haver her own dojo AND she had enough cash left to afford custom-forged swords. Which she openly carried with her. Through downtown NY. And no one even raised an eyebrow. In a nation where people are gunned down by the copsfor holding a freaking phone.

I think I need to lay down. You can invent anything you like, but keep your logic consistent, the facts straight - and when the world is close enough to our own, let people have brains.

 

[Hypoxia]

Anyway, the biggest piece of advice I can offer is - be consistent and avoid contradictions.

That's why them old SF&F pros built worlds in the background before inking a story and why I may chart my settings, players, events, etc. My reality fetish also has me check any science and topography I glibly add. Sure, Plogsinte Crater's unobtanium mines need no excuse, but keep armpit-nuzzling were-gophers beyond the horizon because... well, think of a reason and stick to it.

 

[SynSlave]

I'm a bit late to the party. Hm. Only empty bowls and the sad spilled remains of colorful drinks on the carpets...

Anyway, the biggest piece of advice I can offer is - be consistent and avoid contradictions.

I was once asked to review a vampire futa horror thing and within the first chapter alone, the author couldn't keep his facts straight. Someone had found a scientific way to transform people into futanari/dickgirls. According to the author, a horribly expensive treatment well out of reach for normal tax payers. Yet there are strip clubs full of them, to the point where religious zealots mount protests.

{...}

You can invent anything you like, but keep your logic consistent, the facts straight - and when the world is close enough to our own, let people have brains.

Ah, yes. The biggest pitfall when providing detail and depth. One I try to avoid of course, but... you know... Still human.

It's your last thought that concerns me more. I've always found it challenging to cater to everyone (the majority) while imbuing my own mischievous and subjective thoughts.

For example, Haley's Ladder was partly derived from the old religious mythos Jacob's Ladder. I even twisted it in a fashion not so different from the movie once the idea struck me half way through. Should I have made the reference more clear? Should I have explained the analogy? Should I have taken the time to bore readers with the original theme?

Ultimately I tried to make the story stand by itself whether the reference registered or not. But on a grand scale, I wondered while I was writing, whether it was even an attempt worth the time of myself and the potential readers (still wondering by the way). With most of my work I toss in plenty of esoteric and cultural references on a smaller scale frequently, as all writers do. I wonder often though, how frequently I connect.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Neeblegrub, bub. With a B. You go askin' for a needlegrub when you really need a neeblegrub... well, suffice it to say your spaniel's fucked-up tail won't be your only problem.

See, OP, that's the trouble with my "let it trickle out" method. It does leave room for ambiguity. But, hey! No harm, no foul; there's plenty of ambiguity in real life too, and "real life" is what we want our worlds to look like.

Good thread.

Aiiyah! Neeblegrub!

And here, I really CAN blame autocorrect; I started to type it again and it auto changed to needle instead of neeble

Which is why my cats’ furr is all grubby (little known use for it, it’s great for feline grooming too)

 

[Blind_Justice]

Ah, yes. The biggest pitfall when providing detail and depth. One I try to avoid of course, but... you know... Still human.

It's your last thought that concerns me more. I've always found it challenging to cater to everyone (the majority) while imbuing my own mischievous and subjective thoughts.

For example, Haley's Ladder was partly derived from the old religious mythos Jacob's Ladder. I even twisted it in a fashion not so different from the movie once the idea struck me half way through. Should I have made the reference more clear? Should I have explained the analogy? Should I have taken the time to bore readers with the original theme?

Ultimately I tried to make the story stand by itself whether the reference registered or not. But on a grand scale, I wondered while I was writing, whether it was even an attempt worth the time of myself and the potential readers (still wondering by the way). With most of my work I toss in plenty of esoteric and cultural references on a smaller scale all the time, as all writers do. I wonder often though, how frequently I connect.

Most in-jokes seem to go right by the readers, I fear. I've gone overboard in this year's Geek Day event and deliberately placed over a dozen easter eggs into the submission AND asked the readers to find them. The easiest was a straight-up Hulk joke - no takers.

What I meant with the "let people have brains" was aimed at characters behaving like real people. (I should have put aside my tablet hours ago) The world of that futa vampire thing was clearly contemporary plus a bit strange, but no one behaved like it. There were no strange looks the MC got when she strutted through Manhattan, her custom-forged Albion Zweihander on her back as she basically abducted a zealot from a protest rally to feed him to her newfound vamp friend. With squads of cops around trying to keep the zealots from burning down that futa strip club.

Granted, I know US cop conduct primarily from the latest "cop shot black guy because he felt threatened" new bits and TV shows, but when reaching for a phone is reason enough to gun down a person, how would they react if a kinda goth looking chick with a five-foot sword runs around, molesting people?

And stuff like that happened over and over. The vampire could drain almost two gallons of blood from a grown man faster than it takes me to empty a juice box. To prevent the vampire from dying in daylight, the MC boards up the windows in her penthouse loft, no air circulation - after the vamp has very gorily dismembered that zealot. Yum, blood stench everywhere! When the MC got a lift just before her transformation, the chauffeur futa working for the doctor futa (remember, expensive and somewhat unstable procedure) didn't pull up to the sidewalk, no, she did a freaking handbrake powerslide. With a stretch limo. In downtown Manhattan. In the hospital, the futa nurses had short white coats and let their cocks dangle down their legs. Very hygienic. I get what the author was trying, teasing and shocking the reader, but it had the completely opposite effect on me. A total riot and how best not to build a fantasy world.

Or maybe I'm a tiny bit anal.

 

[Voboy]

Aiiyah! Neeblegrub!

And here, I really CAN blame autocorrect; I started to type it again and it auto changed to needle instead of neeble

Which is why my cats’ furr is all grubby (little known use for it, it’s great for feline grooming too)

Perfect example of a built, realistic future world: despite lightspeed, phasers/photon torpedoes, time travel, sleek futa sexbots, or other futuristic interstellar shenanigans, your readers will appreciate it if the future-world characters still have problems with that humble archvillain: autocorrect.

 

[Hypoxia]

Perfect example of a built, realistic future world: despite lightspeed, phasers/photon torpedoes, time travel, sleek futa sexbots, or other futuristic interstellar shenanigans, your readers will appreciate it if the future-world characters still have problems with that humble archvillain: autocorrect.

I recall classic SciFi tales of folks convicted of capitol offenses by typos in buggy gov't computers. Does LIT host erotica of clashing autocorrects? I've seen posted tweet exchanges where one, but not both or more of texters, emits something madly autocorrected. How far can that be taken, with sex?

Here's a setup: Not only is autocorrect (AC) an archvillain (AV) -- it's a batch of warring evildoers, every artificial intelligence (AI) run amok. Every digital commo device contains an AC-AI, and those AIs evolve, mutate, wage status fights with each other. Thus whatever a human utters or texts, their device's AC-AI twists for its own purposes, including controlling its human with sexual stimuli. "Get-em by the genitals and their hearts and minds will follow." One innocent message can generate a sexting tsunami. Hilarity ensues.

 

[OmnislashXX]

Hmm. I think you answered your own question. "How important is worldbuiling when making a fetish world". I would say, pretty damn important.

I once thought about doing a series of short stories based on a medieval type world. The stories took place in different countries, but ultimately there was one big evil country that had political ties and their fingers in everything.

 

[HHHawkeye]

Hmm. I think you answered your own question. "How important is worldbuiling when making a fetish world". I would say, pretty damn important.

I realize the title phrased it like I was asking for a factual answer, but as the OP says, it was more of a question of "I think it's important, but what do you think? Do you have a different writing philosophy when it comes to this?"

 

[OmnislashXX]

[[QUOTEI realize the title phrased it like I was asking for a factual answer, but as the OP says, it was more of a question of "I think it's important, but what do you think? Do you have a different writing philosophy when it comes to this?"[/QUOTE]

Well, I do think that it is important to give the reader a setting. Your world May be vastly different from our own and because of this, it may affect the way the people think when living in such a society. This will also effect the way your men and women think about sex, which ultimately is what you are going for. You do not need to complicate the story by talking about minor details, but if it really pertains to the main characters, then yes, absolutely write about it.

 

[Hypoxia]

Well, I do think that it is important to give the reader a setting. Your world May be vastly different from our own and because of this, it may affect the way the people think when living in such a society. This will also effect the way your men and women think about sex, which ultimately is what you are going for. You do not need to complicate the story by talking about minor details, but if it really pertains to the main characters, then yes, absolutely write about it.

My guideline for minor details is, keep-em if they drive, inform, or flavor the story. Driving: they can be Chekov's Gun items, significant later on. Informing: a throwaway line about the environment can show we're "somewhere else". Flavoring: fill-out the setting and characters; make them more palpable.

IMHO when worldbuilding, settings are players, passive or active. Passive: interacting with the physical background shapes thoughts and events. Active: the background shakes, rattles, and rolls; hilarity ensues.

Worlds for any genre are more easily stolen than created; say "New York" and readers can already see the setting. Anywhere else needs more work to implant images but even a few concise words can suffice. "Frantic neon four-dimensional maze of a city" or "perfumed fluorescent poppy garden" should paint quick pictures.

We can build any worlds we want. Too bad we're not paid by the word.