How important are three dimensional characters?

[Octavian]

How important are three dimensional characters and plausible plots to a story?

I have read some stories where the only information about the characters is that he has 9 inches and she is a 38DD, and where the plot, if indeed one exists at all, is beyond all bounds of credibility. Does this matter if the sex is graphic?


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[Coolville]

3D characters are not only important in video games.

When I'm reading some raunchy, kinky shit, I still like to know a bit about the character. Visual references to his or her anatomy are helpful, but I like to know how the character feels or what they think when getting into the sticky business.

You don't need 1000 words on where they grew up and which number pizza they order or what scent of soap is preferable. But some reference to the person at the other end of the dick/clit helps the reader form real people in their head.

A man fucking his wife up the ass for the first time can be described graphically but I'd like to know that the wife is, off the top of my head for example, a prim and proper housewife and head of the local parents group and the man is a TV evangelist, or something. Her husband never wants to fuck her 'there' but this man does. His occupation makes the act much more kinky and taboo.

Does any of this make sense?

 

[the_bragis]

The importance of being credible.

Hi Octavian,

3D characters? Yes, I like to know all about the people in a story. I especially like stories in chapters, (or a long one) for that reason. I like to feel I get to 'know' the characters as I read.

I agree with Coolville, it needs to be reasonably relevant to the story line and/or time. I read a story here recently by Judo, a good deal of the appeal for me was attention given to the setting and period.

Plausible plots? I read one of the wildest and wickest stories you could possibly imagine in here a while back. It positively shocked me. Oh boy I sure hope it was all fantasy. On the other hand your story Octavian, could quite possibly have occurred. It's sexy sensual and intriguing. Two entirely different reads, but I ejoyed both very much.

Graphic sex? Well I'm not a virgin. I already know what goes where and how, but I still want all the details. Just sex, however, is not enough to hold my interest when I read.

As for the 9 inch dick and the 38DD breasts, well a fantasy is a fantasy isn't it? If I write in the first person, let me tell you, I'm going to surely give myself big huge tits, and I'm going to be being rich and famous too... ~little giggle~

Have a great day,

Alex

 

[Weird Harold]

I have read some stories where the only information about the characters is that he has 9 inches and she is a 38DD, and where the plot, if indeed one exists at all, is beyond all bounds of credibility. Does this matter if the sex is graphic?

My personal preference is enough character development that I can care about the people having sex. It's always more titllating to hear about the sex lives of people you know than about some stranger you've never seen before.

That said, there is is no real need for 3D characters in a vignette about a kinky sex fantasy that has no plot or purpose beyond the sex. Characters only need developing when the characters are important to the story; Barbie and Ken cutouts are just fine if the only point to the story is describing themechanics of the sex act.

Of course, if an author can use "real people" instead of Barbie and Ken cutouts, then the story is better. Character development is often the difference between a "story," "good story," and "Great Story" -- sort of a "nice to have" factor that makes any story better.

 

[tenyari]

I find it vital to have fleshed out characters.

I write the sex for the story, not the other way around, so the story has to be strong.
As a reader I can't get into one dimensional characters, even in a stroke story.

 

[peachykeen]

my personal taste in both reading and writing stories is to have characters that are realistic and believable. I would want someone to read one of my stories and be able to (without too much suspension of disbelief) put him or herself into the place of one of the characters, at least empathically. That tends to be what I would like to read as well - nothing turns me on more than a good tale where I feel like 'hey this could be me!'

But that's just what I like. I can also totally understand someone being into a total, no-way-on-earth fantasy trip too. Look, if you're a regular guy and feeling a little down on yourself, job's not going well, fighting with the wife, up to your ears in bills, etc etc and you want to lose yourself for a few minutes in a world where chicks built like porn starlets fall to their knees in front of you telling you you have the biggest dick they've ever seen and they need you to give it to them right now or they'll die - well hey, go for it, pal.

 

[takingchances42]

Writing 101

I see big mistakes in both directions in many literotica stories. In some stories cardboard cutout characters with 12 inch cocks and 38DD tits go at it right away, with no background or character development. In too many other stories, we get paragraph after paragraph of background information, written in a tedious and boring fashion.

Two essentials from non-erotic short story writing would help some different authors here. The first is that the core of story telling is that a character runs into a problem, and develops in the process of meeting that challenge. I've seen that phrased many different ways, but that is the essence of it. Daughter wants to sleep with Daddy, but there is a problem -- or vice versa. Verna has a need to be an exhibitionist but hasn't done it -- until the right person or situation comes along. Donna finds generic sex unexciting but it turns out getting tied up and spanked changes everything. Etc. The problem needs to be set up first, so that the resolution is more exciting -- instead of skipping straight to hot and heavy (or mundane and generic) moving body parts.

The other big problem that I see is that many people ignore the rule of "Show, don't tell". Don't spend six paragraphs passively telling a character's life history. Put the character in a situation where he or she talks, walks, thinks, interacts, whatever... and show the reader who that person is in the process.

Of course, rules are made to be broken... But they are best broken deliberately, for good cause, instead of accidentally. Porn is genuinely different from conventional short story writing. Erotica is a whole different matter -- it should meet the general standards for good stories, but with a strongly sexual content and theme.

 

[coaster12345]

your question about character development is intertwined with
your earlier concerns about the voting, octavian. because there is
no generalized answer. a reader's response to a story, as to sex
itself, is an entirely personal matter. it depends upon age, gender,
upbringing and education, level of literary background, experience
in the world and general sophistication, and a myriad other qualities
that go into the reader's makeup--- and indeed, his/her response
to the world around them.

personally, i have no interest in stories without believable people.
i can accept the idea of the solitary whanker posting something to
get him/herself off, but i'm not interested in reading about it myself,
and i will never cast a vote for such a story. i might think it's a 1 or
less, but it's part of a genre that has its place here too. we're all at
different levels of accomplishment, emotional and sexuality maturity.
as the french say (and apologies for this, but i just thought of it and
i can't resist such a great pun), "one man's beouf is another man's
poisson." let those who like it give it 5's. it doesn't bother me
because it doesn't affect me.for the same reason, i'm not going to
give it a 1.

the people in the stories i read and admire don't have to be joycean
catacombs of conflict. i don't need ishmael, or nick carraway, or holden
caulfield for a narrator. often, i find, a cheap effort to sketch "character" is
itself a turn-off. you know the lead: "marge and i have been married
for about five years . . ." the narrator doesn't know for sure? why
should we think he knows who he's been married to for that proximate
time?

in the stories i enjoy, and will take the trouble to praise as well as to
criticize, there's a strange, almost ineffable link between me, the
reader, and that unknown, distant, anonymous writer. i get a sense of
his/her people; i feel maybe i knew them. i empathize.

it's not about subject matter. i read one story last night, about two
couples going cross-country on motorcyles. one of the wives had an
emerency that called her home; her husband continued with the other
couple, and eventually wound up in bed with them. now i've never been
on a motorcyle, don't ever want to be, and think motorized two-wheelers
are ridiculous. but there was something true about the writing, something
honest about the people. i voted 5 and wrote the author a lengthy,
earnest, hopefully constructive critique.

try to keep in mind that a story board like literotica is, in a very real sense,
a community, a small city. and like all cities, it has a variety of neighborhoods.
in my own small city, i'd feel out of place among skate-board kids smoking
joints in the parking lot. just so, they'd be bored stiff sitting in here, on an
evening, discussing kafka.

i write to the highest level i am capable of. i like to assume that most of the
writers here do too. but as in society in general, we hae different levels of
comfort and community. i appreciate anyone who sends me positive feedback.
but i only vote on those stories i feel are part of my neighborhood. cheers

coaster12345@aol.com

 

[Guest]

It is not a simple trade-off between character development and story bloat. I consider a story excellent when character and plot emerge magically with no apparent effort. This is very possible.

I guess a whole bunch of our brains are dedicated to constructing models of other peoples personalities from what are sometimes very subtle clues. We enjoy exercising this talent just as we enjoy many forms of recreation that are in fact necessary practice for life.

Reiterating, it is possible to have huge character and plot development without bogging down the tale. Perhaps the topic of this thread should be how. Everyone has their tricks.

 

[peachykeen]

Tricks? didn't realize I had any but maybe I do. Hmm. I just write and if it works it works and if it don't I delete. Hmm, gonna have to think on this further.

 

[coaster12345]

"It is not a simple trade-off between character development
and story bloat."

i don't know what "story bloat" is, but i think i agree with you
as far as you go. stated simply, what i'm saying is that we all
have different sexual perspectives, depending upon age,
education, experience and so on. a story that turns on a 14
year old whanker isn't going to interest me. but i grant him,
and the ilk of his stories, a place on the board--- and, hopefully,
a genuine vote, from among his own kind, how good his story
was. this far apart from him in years and worlds, how could i
possibly, responsibly vote?

similarly, i wouldn't expect my own stories, of middle-aged
sexual experimentation within a marriage, to be of interest to
high school kids. i would hope that they would abstain from
voting for these pieces, just as i would abstain from voting
for theirs. thanks for the thoughts, . . . . cheers

coaster12345@aol.com

 

[TheWriter]

I personally find 3D characters almost an essential part of a good story. Unless the story is about someone totally shallow and heartless.

I myself wrote a short stroke piece, but I tried adding a little character, even something as simple as that fact this guy was at a big party and he didn't really like big parties.

Just something that makes it feel like there is a better reason for reading the story than just whacking off.

 

[peachykeen]

seen it 2x in this thread so far - is there an "H" in the word 'wanker'? or is it a 'spelling optional' kind of thing?

 

[coaster12345]

peachykeen-

neither the oed nor merriam-webster's tenth deign to list
the word, but webster's new world fourth lists "wank" as
"an instance of masturbation." still, i'm not convinced. it's
a word that just looks like it should have an "h". it's cousin,
"whack" (as in "whack off") certainly has one.

i first heard the word in a movie about an aussie military
unit whose troops presented their chaplain with a shoe box
fitted out with a feather duster with a crank sticking out of
one end of the box and a hole in the other. the padre
admired the gift, remarking, "that's about the finest
whanking machine i've ever seen!" cheers

coaster12345

 

[peachykeen]

"Whanker." It just doesn't look right to me. Plus I don't think of the verb "to whack" as having the same meaning as "to wank" unless it is qualified by the addition of "off". For example yesterday I was out in the side yard whacking down some weeds with an old cleaver, an action totally unrelating to providing the weeds with some sort of sexual release

 

[Weird Harold]

"Whanker." It just doesn't look right to me.

I don't think it is right. I think that adding the H is a case of stupid fingers that are used to typing the many words that start with "WH" instead of just "W."

Now back to the topic at hand: Is describing a character as a "wanker" enough to make him a 3d character or do youneed to add a qualifier -- "Stupid wanker," "Silly wanker," "Grungy Wanker," or the like?

 

[peachykeen]

Harold being a Yank who has lived in England for a while now I think the answer to that depends on the audience. In my English group of mates they tend to toss the word 'wanker' in a sentence in much the same way my NJ buddies would use the word 'jerk', and throw the word 'cunt' around as casually as the Americans would say 'asshole'. (When getting cut off in traffic, for example.) So to call someone a 'stupid wanker' or 'silly wanker' is almost redundant because the use of the word in the first place indicates what the user thinks of the person - but of course I have called people "fuckin' jerk" on several occasions which would also seem redundant (never in my writing though; usually I reserve such eloquence for the jersey turnpike )

 

[coaster12345]

" I think that adding the H is a case of stupid fingers that are used to typing the many words that start with "WH" instead of just "W." "

like in the initials of your screen name?

coaster12345

 

[Weird Harold]

So to call someone a 'stupid wanker' or 'silly wanker' is almost redundant because the use of the word in the first place indicates what the user thinks of the person - but of course I have called people "fuckin' jerk" on several occasions which would also seem redundant (never in my writing though; usually I reserve such eloquence for the jersey turnpike )

Let me broaden the question then.

Is refering to a character by any (derogatory) label enough character development to establish the character as more than a cartoon cut-out? I'm primarily thinking in terms of secondary or peripheral characters rather than main characters here.

Maybe a better question is, "Can stereotypes be used as a "shortcut" to character definition?"

 

[ronde]

stereotypes as character definitions

WH, I think stereotypes can be effective in defining characters if the stereotype is well understood by most readers and is relatively "strong" in meaning. The stereotype must be able to infer the probable dress, speech, and actions the author wishes the reader to find believable.

"Biker", to most of us in the US and probably to many in other countries, paints a vision of heavy iron, leather, and a casual regard for behavior that society deems acceptable. A stronger stereotype is "Hell's Angel". Few readers would picture riders of cafe racers and motocross bikes as "bikers". The one word description of "biker" can probably replace a paragraph or two of character definition.

Some other stereotypes that, to me at least, carry strong connotations are:

cowboy
nerd
lounge lizard
nurse
stripper


The widely used word, "gay", also denotes a stereotype. I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, an expert in this area, but for me, this stereotype encompasses far too broad a range of personalities and lifestyles to properly define a character. I suspect that many readers are of similar experience. Does this "gay" man wear leather and d-rings, or does he wear a business suit and sit next to you at work? Perhaps he does both. Is he promiscuous, or does he have a life partner? The same can be applied to the stereotype of "lesbian". This stereotype, in my opinion, would serve to define only a sexual preference, and wouldn't do much to further my understanding of the character.

 

[wildsweetone]

here's a little piece i posted a while back on my story feedback thread. we were discussing stereotypes.


'The motorbike stood on its stand beside the minivan, silver helmet balanced on the seat. The leather jacket was shrugged off and thrown, landing haphazardly on the hook inside the minivan door. Denim material was pulled away from the body, the tight fit taking a moment to be adjusted comfortably for the standing position. The hand moved to the groin, knees bending a little to free the area of restriction.'

WH said: Maybe a better question is, "Can stereotypes be used as a "shortcut" to character definition?"

is the above description of a male or female biker?

 

[Weird Harold]

...is the above description of a male or female biker?

It's deliberately androgynous and could be either one. It gives a hint that the biker has some masculine characteristics, but no real clue.

Because of the deiberate vagueness, I'd reserve judgment but halfway expect a female biker.

 

[Whispersecret]

I'm not sure what sex, but the passive sentence structure drove me crazy!! LOL

I think stereotypes can be useful, particularly in secondary and tertiary characters. I'd be careful about using them for protagonists unless you're writing a piece that isn't going to go into too much depth of character. A simple stroke story could be a good fit for a stereotypical protagonist.

 

[bimishka]

well i think that what kind of character development occurs in ur stories all depends on what inspires u...i personally tend to have intricate and somehow politically interested characters...even though i write poems instead of actual stories i still do have character development...u do learn something about the characters...even though only one poem is actually taken out of real life (i only have three posted on this site), the others r situations ive imagined myself in with people who r actually present in my life and share many characterisitics of my characters...also politics is very much intertwined with my sexuality...ill admit that the "w(h)anker" stories u all speak of dont really do it for me because i cant really be arroused by a story without realistic characters and situations in it...a really good story will suddenly pop into ur head when ur in certain situations...reminding u of ur arousal...but i guess thats just my opinion...

mishka

 

[Uther_Pendragon]

Too many of the replies to this thread have posed a false
dichotomy.
You don't have to write huge amounts to have three-dimensional
characters. Writing huge amounts of "description" doesn't
make your character three-dimensional.
The first need is to *visualize* your characters, and
I don't mean primarily (or at all) physically.
Who are they, why do they get together, how do they relate?
Then, as they relate, you show this. Far too often, I see
stories where the writer has (obviously) been told to give
us the character before giving us the action -- so we get
paragraphs of introductory description. I've started more
than one story in the middle of intercourse. "Beautiful
Everywhere" is on Lit. Do you really come away from that
not knowing the characters?