How do you Protect your stories?

[littlecordelera]

You're not getting a court date in the United States unless you produce a formal copyright registration. This is not a mistake; the U.S. Government doesn't want its courts bogged down in he said/she said cases. End of story..

So I called an actual expert.

What you are talking about only applies to Federal Court. It does not mean one cannot file suit in state court and receive substantial damages. I know, I've seen it happen. The way you guys are talking you would think it is necessary to file with the Copyright Office before even submitting to an agent!

So there you go, Mister Know-It-All. Read it and weep, and to use your own phrase, "End of story."

 

[Bramblethorn]

So I called an actual expert.

Can you be more specific about their expertise? Are we talking "attorney who works in copyright law", or something else?

What you are talking about only applies to Federal Court. It does not mean one cannot file suit in state court and receive substantial damages. I know, I've seen it happen. The way you guys are talking you would think it is necessary to file with the Copyright Office before even submitting to an agent!

Worth looking at 28 U.S. Code § 1338:

"The district [i.e. Federal - B] courts shall have original jurisdiction of any civil action arising under any Act of Congress relating to patents, plant variety protection, copyrights and trademarks. No State court shall have jurisdiction over any claim for relief arising under any Act of Congress relating to patents, plant variety protection, or copyrights. "

http://www.eckertseamans.com/content.aspx?ContentID=14&View=Detail&ArticleID=458

"Moreover, since 28 U.S.C. § 1338(a) also grants exclusive subject matter jurisdiction in federal court for plant variety protection and copyrights..."

 

[littlecordelera]

Can you be more specific about their expertise? Are we talking "attorney who works in copyright law", or something else?

An attorney with experience in copyright law.

We all agree that one has copyright by the mere fact that they produced the work - the law says you do; however, it appears from the discrete quote you have provided that one does not have copyright unless they have registered their work with the Copyright office. It doesn't make sense, but if you cannot explain that apparent contradiction then you cannot claim to know that without registration it is "end of story."

I asked about the above, but the amount of legal jargon coming at me was way beyond my understanding and more than I can remember from a telephone conversation, and besides, he was doing me a favor since he wasn't getting paid.

When you have an attorney representing you, even traffic court isn't as cut-and-dried as a single sentence.

 

[littlecordelera]

"However, disputes over copyright ownership and payment of royalties are often brought in state court..."

Quoted from copyrightguru.com. See the paragraph titled, "Where Can You Sue."

http://www.copyrightguru.com/belmon...s/topic7_infringement/topic7_infringement.htm

 

[Zeb_Carter]

But all the person who you are suing has to do is apply for a copyright and have the case transferred to Federal Court under 28 U.S.C. § 1338(a) and the case in state court ends.

 

[littlecordelera]

But all the person who you are suing has to do is apply for a copyright and have the case transferred to Federal Court under 28 U.S.C. § 1338(a) and the case in state court ends.

Zeb, the lawsuit in state court is a civil case. A respective case in Federal court is a criminal prosecution. The two are completely separate. Moreover, to do what you suggested would hand the plaintiff the Federal case she did not have.

 

[Bramblethorn]

"However, disputes over copyright ownership and payment of royalties are often brought in state court..."

Quoted from copyrightguru.com. See the paragraph titled, "Where Can You Sue."

http://www.copyrightguru.com/belmon...s/topic7_infringement/topic7_infringement.htm

Let's quote a little more from that same paragraph:

"Since copyright law in the United States is exclusively federal in nature, a copyright owner must file a copyright infringement lawsuit in federal rather than state court. According to the United States Code (28 U.S.C. §1338), federal courts have exclusive jurisdiction over any actions involving rights under federal copyright law. However, disputes over copyright ownership and payment of royalties are often brought in state court since these types of disputes often involve contractual rights rather than rights under copyright law."

So, for instance: if I license you to publish my book in return for royalties, and you don't pay me the agreed royalties, the issue isn't infringement per se; it's that you didn't meet your contractual obligations, so I might be able to take you to State court. And if I sell the rights to my work, but it's not clear exactly what I sold, that again is a contractual issue that might be something that can be slugged out in a State court.

But if you just start copying my work without any sort of contractual arrangement, I probably need to sue for infringement. According to the site you've referenced, and every other source I can find on the matter, that needs to be done in a federal court... which requires registration.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Zeb, the lawsuit in state court is a civil case. A respective case in Federal court is a criminal prosecution.

Er, no. If I sue you for copyright infringement under federal law, that's still a civil case. The state-vs-federal distinction is not the same as civil-vs-criminal.

http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourts/UnderstandingtheFederalCourts/HowCourtsWork/CivilCases.aspx

 

[littlecordelera]

Okay.

 

[Hypoxia]

Easy way to protect one's writings: Write badly. Write absolute unreadable crap. It probably won't be stolen. If it is, the thief deserves it.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Easy way to protect one's writings: Write badly. Write absolute unreadable crap. It probably won't be stolen. If it is, the thief deserves it.

But it will be made into a movie blockbuster.

 

[radioz66]

Easy way to protect one's writings: Write badly. Write absolute unreadable crap. It probably won't be stolen. If it is, the thief deserves it.

I have done this but then Everyone or Almost everyone does not like reading my stories they even go as far as to demolish my feelings .

 

[littlecordelera]

From the website of the Copyright Office:

"§ 506. Criminal offenses

(a) Criminal Infringement. —

(1) In general. — Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed —

(A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;"

Also criminal for Fraudulent Copyright Notice and False Representation.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

From the website of the Copyright Office:

"§ 506. Criminal offenses

(a) Criminal Infringement. —

(1) In general. — Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed —

(A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;"

Also criminal for Fraudulent Copyright Notice and False Representation.

And, your point is?

 

[littlecordelera]

My point is:

Er, no. If I sue you for copyright infringement under federal law, that's still a civil case. The state-vs-federal distinction is not the same as civil-vs-criminal.

Er...no. It's a criminal case.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

My point is:



Er...no. It's a criminal case.

So?

 

[Bramblethorn]

My point is:



Er...no. It's a criminal case.

*sigh*

A private party suing another private party IS a civil case. There is a huge amount of information available on the web that should make this abundantly clear.

Some issues can be covered by both civil and criminal law. The OJ Simpson case is a famous example: he was prosecuted by the government for murder (criminal offence) and acquitted, but was then sued by the family of his victims for "wrongful death", and required to pay damages as a result.

Yes, it's possible for somebody to be charged with a criminal offense for copyright violation. But it's up to the government to decide whether they want to do that, and in the context we're talking about - somebody stealing stories of Literotica - there's no way that would happen. Unless you're a large industry lobby group like the RIAA or MPAA, forget about it.

Even if they do, that's not the same as "suing for copyright infringement". If you want to do that, regardless of how any criminal trial turns out, you still need to register. That's what the law says, it's what the US Copyright Office says, it's what any number of professional IP lawyers say.

At the risk of sounding harsh: law is complex, interpretation isn't always intuitive, and you really don't have enough working knowledge of the basics, things like civil-vs-criminal distinctions, to be able to interpret the snippets you've found on the web.

 

[littlecordelera]

*sigh*

A private party suing another private party IS a civil case. There is a huge amount of information available on the web that should make this abundantly clear.

Some issues can be covered by both civil and criminal law. The OJ Simpson case is a famous example: he was prosecuted by the government for murder (criminal offence) and acquitted, but was then sued by the family of his victims for "wrongful death", and required to pay damages as a result.

Yes, it's possible for somebody to be charged with a criminal offense for copyright violation. But it's up to the government to decide whether they want to do that, and in the context we're talking about - somebody stealing stories of Literotica - there's no way that would happen. Unless you're a large industry lobby group like the RIAA or MPAA, forget about it.

Even if they do, that's not the same as "suing for copyright infringement". If you want to do that, regardless of how any criminal trial turns out, you still need to register. That's what the law says, it's what the US Copyright Office says, it's what any number of professional IP lawyers say.

At the risk of sounding harsh: law is complex, interpretation isn't always intuitive, and you really don't have enough working knowledge of the basics, things like civil-vs-criminal distinctions, to be able to interpret the snippets you've found on the web.

We're not talking about people stealing stories off of Literotica. Zeb Carter suggested the person being sued should commit False Representation and Fraudulent Copyright Notice. Those are criminal offenses. I taught you that.

But that's not the only things I have taught you. I also taught you that you actually can bring a case to state court, something you vehemently insisted could not be done at the beginning of this thread. Should I quote you?

And all your last paragraph does is make it clear that your ego has been crushed now that you've taken a intellectual ass-whuppin' from a woman.

But it was fun!

 

[Zeb_Carter]

We're not talking about people stealing stories off of Literotica. Zeb Carter suggested the person being sued should commit False Representation and Fraudulent Copyright Notice. Those are criminal offenses. I taught you that.

But that's not the only things I have taught you. I also taught you that you actually can bring a case to state court, something you vehemently insisted could not be done at the beginning of this thread. Should I quote you?

And all your last paragraph does is make it clear that your ego has been crushed now that you've taken a intellectual ass-whuppin' from a woman.

But it was fun!

Hmmm...First, I didn't. What I suggested was that the violator of the copyright could, not should, file a formal copyright and thus win the case.

And it doesn't really matter what the copyrighted item is...you still need a formal copyright to bring suite in court and the only court you can bring the violation of copyright suit is the federal court as the statute says.

Why don't you go back to the GB, they like you over there.

 

[Bramblethorn]

No argument with all that, but it's kind of splitting hairs, except for one statement. (And I don't know why I was writing USPTO. Sometimes my brain gets crossed.)

To state that "you can't sue for infringement unless you've registered" is just plain wrong. You own the copyright. You can sue. It's been successfully done numerous times.

Quoting the above just to establish that we were specifically discussing the question of whether one could sue (i.e. a civil action) without registration...

We're not talking about people stealing stories off of Literotica. Zeb Carter suggested the person being sued should commit False Representation and Fraudulent Copyright Notice. Those are criminal offenses. I taught you that.

But that's not the only things I have taught you. I also taught you that you actually can bring a case to state court, something you vehemently insisted could not be done at the beginning of this thread. Should I quote you?

You haven't "taught" anything of the kind. You've asserted that it's possible to sue for infringement without registration (in the face of definitive statements by the US Copyright Office, practicing IP lawyers, and the US Code), but you've provided zero verifiable evidence to back up your claims. What you have taught us is that you're very, very confused about some of the basic concepts of IP law and indeed law in general.

And all your last paragraph does is make it clear that your ego has been crushed now that you've taken a intellectual ass-whuppin' from a woman.

http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo334/claustrophobicmime/GIFs/stupidpeopledontknowtheyrestupid-1.gif

 

[Zeb_Carter]

We're not talking about people stealing stories off of Literotica. Zeb Carter suggested the person being sued should commit False Representation and Fraudulent Copyright Notice. Those are criminal offenses. I taught you that.

But that's not the only things I have taught you. I also taught you that you actually can bring a case to state court, something you vehemently insisted could not be done at the beginning of this thread. Should I quote you?

And all your last paragraph does is make it clear that your ego has been crushed now that you've taken a intellectual ass-whuppin' from a woman.

But it was fun!

Once more with gusto...

If an individual (ie. private citizen) or a corportaion sues another individual or corporation this is a civil suit.

If the, let's say the FBI and the Attorney Generals office, get involved and file charges against an individual or corporation, that is a criminal case.

Are we clear on that. That being said, not all cases brought to bear against individuals or corporations by the government(city, county, state, federal) are necessarily criminal in nature, they can be compared to a civil case.

If someone shows up at your door and drags you out in handcuffs after serving you with an arrest warrant, that is going to be a criminal case. You're going to jail.

If someone shows up at your door and hands you a piece of paper telling you to appear in court to give just cause as to why you shouldn't be found guilty of violation of someone else's copyright, that is going to be a civil suit.

One you wind up in jail probably with a hefty fine

The other you are spanked really hard and have to pay the guy suing you a boat load of money.

Jail time and fine = Criminal

Spanking and boat load of money = Civil

Getting the FBI and AG's office involved in a simple copyright violation is highly unlikely unless, it's about all those knockoff Gucci bags they sell in New York.

That's criminal. The bag not the knockoff part.

ETA: Now if someone "steals" your stuff and put's them up on Ebay or on Amazon to make a profit, that could be construed as theft. And while you could file criminal charges of theft by deception against the person, I seriously think you would have to provide proof of ownership with more than a timestamp (which can be manipulated) to get the police interested.

So you would first end up in Federal Court to try and establish a copyright. Ergo, your would need a formal copyright to establish ownership to the police for your criminal case.

Is this clear enough for all involved?

 

[MrSkin]

Some of you folks are extremely fascinating. Seriously fascinating.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Most of the time youre spending a dollar to save a dime. If you win a lawsuit how much can you expect to collect? Besides nuthin, I mean. If its good enough your mom will steal it, too.