Hospitals, insurance companies, are changing

[Stella_Omega]

Something old is new again; Doctors are allowed to apologise to their patients.

In Dr. Das Gupta’s case in 2006, the patient retained a lawyer but decided not to sue, and, after a brief negotiation, accepted $74,000 from the hospital, said her lawyer, David J. Pritchard.

“She told me that the doctor was completely candid, completely honest, and so frank that she and her husband — usually the husband wants to pound the guy — that all the anger was gone,” Mr. Pritchard said. “His apology helped get the case settled for a lower amount of money.”

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I became aware a while back of measures in legislatures prohibiting the use of an apology as evidence of culpability in a lawsuit. First reaction was, "That's nice." Add to that, I believe there may be survey data showing that many lawsuits are as much about people wanting some "emotional compensation" as monetary - and getting an apology provides some of that, so perhaps reduces the chances of getting sued. So on further consideration, I'm not sure that an insincere apology is better than none. But it may be - it just may be (how well can you fake sincerity, Doc?)

What a tangled web we weave when widespread popular delusions and ignorance are interwoven with dysfunctional legal institutions.

 

[DesertPirate]

That will put a certain former Presidential candidate out of work.

All Edwards did was win so many suits for huge money that there are now 10% fewer doctors in NC. They can't afford the malpractice insureance rates he caused.

And people voted for that ambulance chaser?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I became aware a while back of measures in legislatures prohibiting the use of an apology as evidence of culpability in a lawsuit. First reaction was, "That's nice." Add to that, I believe there may be survey data showing that many lawsuits are as much about people wanting some "emotional compensation" as monetary - and getting an apology provides some of that, so perhaps reduces the chances of getting sued. So on further consideration, I'm not sure that an insincere apology is better than none. But it may be - it just may be (how well can you fake sincerity, Doc?).

I think they'll get back in the habit pretty quickly. Doctors, mostly, are interested in medicine because they want to help people-- at least the students start out that way in their freshman year.

I think this is much more healthy for the doctors, too. Imagine caring-- desperately-- knowing it was your mistake-- and not being allowed to say so.

 

[DesertPirate]

I think they'll get back in the habit pretty quickly. Doctors, mostly, are interested in medicine because they want to help people-- at least the students start out that way in their freshman year.

I think this is much more healthy for the doctors, too. Imagine caring-- desperately-- knowing it was your mistake-- and not being allowed to say so.

A much needed improvement.

 

[Misty_Morning]

.....

 

[TE999]

Something old is new again; Doctors are allowed to apologise to their patients.

"Gee, I'm so sorry I removed your leg Mrs. Smith. I apologise."

"That's okay doc, everyone makes mistakes. Could you bring that wheelchair around?"

Hah! As if!

(sarc off)

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I think they'll get back in the habit pretty quickly. Doctors, mostly, are interested in medicine because they want to help people-- at least the students start out that way in their freshman year.

I think this is much more healthy for the doctors, too. Imagine caring-- desperately-- knowing it was your mistake-- and not being allowed to say so.

Concur.

An underappreciated cost of malpractice suits is the pychic impact on physicians whose motivations are as you describe (which are not contradicted by the motivations Misty cites - "doing well by doing good"). "Cosmic injustice" is just one of those sad facts of life - some babies will have CP, life-saving drugs do affect a handful of people in tragic ways, etc. As a society we may have a duty to support such victims, but assigning blame to healer is deeply misguided, if not immoral.

 

[Stella_Omega]

As a society we may have a duty to support such victims, but assigning blame to healer is deeply misguided, if not immoral.

One of those primitive human things. The healers always lost their heads if anyone really important died. I just can't wait for humans to grow up!

I had oral surgery once, that went wrong-- just a little bit, that kept me in pain for an extra week, until I called him to see if this was usual. He had me come right down, and he removed the fourth nerve from the back molar they'd root canalled... The doctor told me that he'd made a mistake. I can remember the look on his nurse's face-- horror, absolute fear.

 

[Pure]

thanks stella, for the posting!

i think it's excellent when drs. and hospital accept blame/responsbility without legal pressure. a timely apology, sometimes with money, is sometimes quite sufficient for the victim, in minor cases. a friend of mine received an apology and a couple hundred when a dentist poked a hole in her cheek.

as the articles point out, injured patients by and large do NOT want protracted litigation. when drs and hospitals 'stone wall' inquiries as to fuck ups, litigation is sometimes the only way.

 

[rgraham666]

It isn't just doctors who don't apologize, it's everyone in any position of power.

For most of our elite, those in positions of responsibility in our society, their power is based on their expertise. And being an expert means that you are always right in your field of expertise.

If a person, an expert, makes a mistake this shows they are not expert. And so have no right to power. It also calls into question the entire profession and its right to power.

So no mistakes ever happen. And apologies don't happen.

Being human and being incompetent are not the same thing. But our society confuses the two.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I just read a book, written by an MD, about how MDs think. MDs learn one way of thinking in med school then have to learn a different approach in practice. The real world doesnt allow a leisurely pursuit of answers; you need to know answers in seconds, not minutes.

So MDs become the victims of their experience. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc. But sometimes it isnt a duck. MDs get harpooned by the odd-duck who has the same symptoms but a different problem.

 

[jomar]

People need to realize medicine is still much an art. And the current insurance climate does not encourage doctors to expect the worst until proven otherwise.

Having said that, a JBJ example. A woman in town here was told she had a virus. She decompensated, her husband called several times describing the elevating symptoms and the doc insisted it was just a virus. Forty-eight hours later she was dead from meningitis. No doubt everyone on the medical side is horrified. But, would an apology do here?

 

[where]

In the uk we don't, as yet, have the same compensation culture as in the US. Money is only paid out for gross negligence or malpractice. Most people accept that mistakes happen and Doctors are human and therefore fallible. So we do get Drs apologising when things have gone wrong. I expect if we paid directly for healthcare, things would be different.

 

[neonlyte]

In the UK, you are more likely to get an apology from a General Practitioner (Family Doctor) than from a Consultant (Specialist). I think if my Consultant had apologised for not treating me, we might have avoided legal action, as things stand, the GP who did successfully treat me, after all the Consultants failed, is likely to be drawn into legal action as he is the lynch-pin between me and the Consultants. My solicitor advises the GP may be liable for referring me to a Neurologist instead of an infectious disease Consultant and for failing to review the Neurologists decision not to prescribe initial treatment. Compromise would be wonderful but not when arrogant pricks are involved.

 

[DesertPirate]

The absolute worst are the Drs with a GOD complex. They think they are God. I have found an enjoyable way to take them down a notch or two is to remind them that inspite of all the medical advances in history, the mortallity rate on this planet is still 100%!

 

[trysail]

The vast majority held the opinion, that if they can't pay or have no insurence...let them go somewhere else. They were in it for the money from the very start.

I do think that the cost of malpractice insurance is driving some folks out of the medical field, especially OB/GYN. However, from what I have seen first hand the medical field is full [of] greedy motherfuckers that really don't give the time and attention necessary for their patients.

The docs know which ones are in it for the dough (the "slicks" specializing in "diseases of the rich" who tend to aim at specialty medicine- radiology and anesthesiology, in particular, because the hours are predictable) and which ones are in it because they want to practice medicine. Every field has its share of sleazeballs— it's not just medicine.

With respect to apologies, heretofore, the slimeballs and pirahnas of the tort bar have made it utterly impossible because of the legal implications.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

The docs know which ones are in it for the dough (the "slicks" specializing in "diseases of the rich" who tend to aim at specialty medicine- radiology and anesthesiology, in particular, because the hours are predictable) and which ones are in it because they want to practice medicine. Every field has its share of sleazeballs— it's not just medicine.

With respect to apologies, heretofore, the slimeballs and pirahnas of the tort bar have made it utterly impossible because of the legal implications.

They're all in it for the dough, and good for them. You don't dedicate your life and go through the most rigorous professional training imaginable to spend your life having to skrimp to make ends meet.

Most of them are also in it - or primarily in it - for humanitarian reasons. There is no contradiction in "doing well by doing good."

 

[Stella_Omega]

They're all in it for the dough, and good for them. You don't dedicate your life and go through the most rigorous professional training imaginable to spend your life having to skrimp to make ends meet. ..

This does not explain school teachers, however.

Honestly, Roxy, we all know that doctors want and deserve to make their money. That is not what trysail was talking about.

Stop preaching your gospel at the drop of a hat-- you remind me of those Touretts sufferers who call out "Thank you Jesus" while they rummage at Salvation Army stores.

Come on, have a conversation about something else. There must be more in your mind than economic theory-- how are your petunias doing?

Did you get any of the Swedish Meatballs-- before VM ate them all?

 

[trysail]

They're all in it for the dough, and good for them. You don't dedicate your life and go through the most rigorous professional training imaginable to spend your life having to skrimp to make ends meet.

Most of them are also in it - or primarily in it - for humanitarian reasons. There is no contradiction in "doing well by doing good."

Roxleby,
You're talking to someone who has (quite literally) been run out of his profession for refusing to bend or break his principles.

I promise you "They're" NOT "all in it for the dough." Some of 'em (and many of my acquaintence) are in it 'cause their fathers or their families were in medicine. The degree of altruism varies; I'm lucky 'cause I can easily find out which ones are motivated by do-re-mi and which ones are motivated by other considerations.

The very last thing I want is to be treated by a young doc with $300,000 worth of medical school debts. Of a sudden, such a person (if of less-than-staunch character) can rationalize the Hippocratic oath into the "Hypocrite" oath.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I'm not necessarily politicizing, Stella. More, just injecting the observation that humans have complex combinations of motivations, and the desire to make money is not contradictory to and can coexist with humanitarian motives.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

<Takes deep breath.>

My petunias are just doing OK, not terrific. I'm at war with the rabbits. Rabbits! They're not suppose to like petunias!?! (Gardenias now - fuhgetaboudit.)

So I bought some "deer off" pepper spray. It works OK, but it's expensive and needs to be refreshed every few days. Oh well - I'll just pay up.

I need to stake a guard-cat out there at night. Got any I can borrow? (Never mind - staking a cat is an unnatural act that's also dangerous for the cat.)

~~~~

The meatballs were gone, but that's just as well for keeping my girlish figure.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm not necessarily politicizing, Stella. More, just injecting the observation that humans have complex combinations of motivations, and the desire to make money is not contradictory to and can coexist with humanitarian motives.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

<Takes deep breath.>

My petunias are just doing OK, not terrific. I'm at war with the rabbits. Rabbits! They're not suppose to like petunias!?! (Gardenias now - fuhgetaboudit.)

So I bought some "deer off" pepper spray. It works OK, but it's expensive and needs to be refreshed every few days. Oh well - I'll just pay up.

I need to stake a guard-cat out there at night. Got any I can borrow? (Never mind - staking a cat is an unnatural act that's also dangerous for the cat.)

~~~~

The meatballs were gone, but that's just as well for keeping my girlish figure.

You can make your own deer juice mix, says the putative witch.

Hit up an Indian grocery and ask for asefoetida, which smells like rotten onions. An egg white as a binder, and a lot of cayenne pepper and enough of the asafoetida so that you can just barely smell it- like a eentsy pinch-- shake it up and let it sit in the warm sun for a day-- strain the solids out before you put it in the spray bottle-- and you're good to go... cost, about $1.00 a bottle, figuring the cayenne is maybe four bucks per bag in the same Indian grocery store.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It's more than money and self-esteem; a big chunk of it is power.

MDs hate to be investigated and questioned about their treatment decisions, especially by informed laymen. Their authority goes to hell when theyre painted into a corner. Loss of job is a real possibility for them. It happens. HOUSE MD had a series of shows about this, where the investigator climbed up House's ass and wouldnt leave. House forced everyone to lie to save him from the consequences.