Holocaust Remembrance

[DesEsseintes]

Sorry to hijack the hijack. Fascinating thread - thank you, everybody. Lots I could say on this but I don't think it would fundamentally change much from the comments so far. But two further recommendations for those who may not have encountered them. First, the brilliant If This Is A Man by Primo Levi, which is his account of his time in Auschwitz but also a meditation on so much more. Profoundly moving.

And second, the best documentary ever made - The Ascent of Man, by Jakob Bronowski - having traversed the whole of human history and pre-history - has a whole episode (11) largely on Auschwitz, as well as Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It is particularly moving when one has followed the enthusiasm of this brilliant man through nine previous hours on human ingenuity and creativity, to find him at the gates of Auschwitz. It is suddenly a very personal documentary - for he was a Polish Jew who would himself probably have died there had it not been for his family moving to England in 1920. I'd recommend the whole thing - much is available on Youtube. But part of what he says might be worth quoting in this thread, though without his quirky, friendly, brilliant presence it loses some of its power.

“It's said that science will dehumanize people and turn them into numbers. That's false, tragically false. Look for yourself. This is the concentration camp and crematorium at Auschwitz. This is where people were turned into numbers. Into this pond were flushed the ashes of some four million people. And that was not done by gas. It was done by arrogance, it was done by dogma, it was done by ignorance. When people believe that they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave. This is what men do when they aspire to the knowledge of gods.

Science is a very human form of knowledge. We are always at the brink of the known; we always feel forward for what is to be hoped. Every judgment in science stands on the edge of error and is personal. Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible. In the end, the words were said by Oliver Cromwell: "I beseech you in the bowels of Christ: Think it possible you may be mistaken."

I owe it as a scientist to my friend Leo Szilard, I owe it as a human being to the many members of my family who died here, to stand here as a survivor and a witness. We have to cure ourselves of the itch for absolute knowledge and power. We have to close the distance between the push-button order and the human act. We have to touch people.”

 

[Lancecastor]

Nearly 12 million Germans were expelled and displaced after WWII.

 

[Sean]

I recommend Maus, by Art Spiegelman. Because it doesn't really tackle the war, it's just Art's dad, who's a real guy, talking about his actual life. It'll fuck you up.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/Maus.jpg

I was recommending this to LTR just the other day. I'm not really a big graphic novel fan, but those two books are incredible.

 

[snugglestruggle]

Since both took place between the turn of the century and WW2, both are worthy of mentioning in this thread. Stepping stones of inhumanity.


Rape of a city

Hitlers inspiration

 

[Fata Morgana]

I guess humans like to watch a little destruction. Sand castles, houses of cards, that's where they begin. Their great skills is their capacity to escalate.

Markus Zusak, The Book Thief

 

[Tathagata]

I guess humans like to watch a little destruction. Sand castles, houses of cards, that's where they begin. Their great skills is their capacity to escalate.

Markus Zusak, The Book Thief

Thia was a good movie too.
I wish Geoffrey Rush would do more as well.

 

[rimmy]

They found Eichmann two blocks from where my uncle's in-laws lived in the wealthiest part of Argentina.

 

[Fata Morgana]

Thia was a good movie too.
I wish Geoffrey Rush would do more as well.

He shined in that. Nearly every scene he was in made me blub.

 

[Fata Morgana]

They found Eichmann two blocks from where my uncle's in-laws lived in the wealthiest part of Argentina.

I think JBJ is Mengele.

 

[rimmy]

I think JBJ is Mengele.

Imagine him as your GP.

 

[DesEsseintes]

Imagine him as your GP.

I see him more as the dentist in Marathon Man.

 

[Que]

Nearly 12 million Germans were expelled and displaced after WWII.

Which is almost like being killed and incinerated?

 

[rimmy]

I see him more as the dentist in Marathon Man.

While I was never a fan of dentists in general, that movie had me so wound up that the next time I was at the dentist, who happened to be my parents close friend, I bit his finger.

Serves him right for sticking his fingers in my mouth.

 

[rimmy]

Which is almost like being killed and incinerated?

No but not every German was a Nazi and plenty of them died in defense of what was happening.

 

[DesEsseintes]

While I was never a fan of dentists in general, that movie had me so wound up that the next time I was at the dentist, who happened to be my parents close friend, I bit his finger.

Serves him right for sticking his fingers in my mouth.

True. The man was clearly asking for it. Probably had some disgusting oral fetish.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

And second, the best documentary ever made - The Ascent of Man, by Jakob Bronowski - having traversed the whole of human history and pre-history - has a whole episode (11) largely on Auschwitz, as well as Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It is particularly moving when one has followed the enthusiasm of this brilliant man through nine previous hours on human ingenuity and creativity, to find him at the gates of Auschwitz. It is suddenly a very personal documentary - for he was a Polish Jew who would himself probably have died there had it not been for his family moving to England in 1920. I'd recommend the whole thing - much is available on Youtube. But part of what he says might be worth quoting in this thread, though without his quirky, friendly, brilliant presence it loses some of its power.

I have always been astonished that The Ascent of Man was not re-released in syndication on PBS or somewhere else on cable. Bronowski took the whole of recorded history as well as scientific and social development and weaved a connecting thread through the entire narrative. He could describe a single blade of grass and hold an audience spellbound. Every high school student should be required to view the series.

 

[Tathagata]

I have always been astonished that The Ascent of Man was not re-released in syndication on PBS or somewhere else on cable. Bronowski took the whole of recorded history as well as scientific and social development and weaved a connecting thread through the entire narrative. He could describe a single blade of grass and hold an audience spellbound. Every high school student should be required to view the series.

Joseph Campbell is like that, for me, as well.