Hmm and you thought COPA was bad check this out

[its Leslie]

http://msnbc-cnet.com.com/2100-1040-956357.html?type=pt?=msnbc&tag=alert&form=feed&subj=cnetnews

Bloody incredible eh.

 

[kristydoll]

yikes!

its a slippery slope...

 

[Svenskaflicka]

But how come?

My motto is "before you can deicde if you're going to obey a rule or break it, you first have to understand why it was created in the first place".

If someone could give me a good enough reason why games shouldn't be allowed, I'd stop using them. But in this case, no such motivation has been given..?

 

[its Leslie]

Gambling , guess Greeks can't handle resisting gambling.
Sure an odd way to solve the problem though.

 

[wildsweetone]

After telling myself I'd not give my opinion on the thread on this topic, I find myself here lol

I had a little scout around this morning, looking for further information about the Greek economy. I have discovered it's not such an easy thing to track down. Specifically, I was looking to see what percentage of the Greek Government's income was directly related to gambling. Afterall, gambling statistics are what we're on about here.

At the very least it might lower the 11% unemployment rate, they would have to have a massive amount of policing to enforce the law.

***
Sometimes surfing the net looking for specific information has me following links all over the show.

This morning had me discovering another interesting tid bit of news.

Do you recall the recent abduction and killing of the two 10 year old English girls? Taken by the caretaker of their school and murdered? It was world-wide news, followed in depth by many.

Well, according to a CNN Europe article I read this morning, UK parents (some not all, I assume) are making serious enquiries into having their daughters implanted with microchips so their whereabouts can be tracked.

There's a facility to make a 'quick vote' on the CNN news site.
The statistics show 49% would not have their children microchipped.
29% would.
21% say possibly.
not bad out of a total of 12,804 votes.

Sometimes I think the world has gone crazy.

 

[jon.hayworth]

Following on from WSO's comments, the problem is that the biggest threat to children in the UK (I cannot comment on other countries) - in terms of sexual assaults, ordinary assaults and murder.

Are the victims of crimes that are perpetrated within the family. 80% of children who are sexually assaulted are the victims of a member of their own family or close family friend.

Over 90% of children who are murdered die at the hands of their parents or guardians.

To acknowledge the risks posed to children by families would logically lead to social policies which would strike at the core of the belief systems of our society. In truth maybe "stranger danger" allows us collectively to be complacent about the reality of danger to children in our society.

 

[karmadog]

You'd think government would have something better to do.

Here is an interesting essay from the other side. It's from a book called 'Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do' by Peter McWilliams. The whole book is available online if you get interested, but this is the first chapter.

Some of the arguments are based on US law, but I think the moral arguments apply to everyone.

 

[wildsweetone]

Karmadog, does that mean a repetitive drunk driver wouldn't be put in prison until he'd actually damaged another vehicle or harmed/killed a person?

It's kind of the opposite to what USA's President of the moment is intending doing with Iraq.

I don't really believe either way is good. But then I guess it's impossible to please all the people all of the time.

 

[its Leslie]

The chance of pissing people off is directly proportional to how intensely you want to protect them from themselves.

You may assume I am the author of that little pearl of wisdom.

 

[karmadog]

Karmadog, does that mean a repetitive drunk driver wouldn't be put in prison until he'd actually damaged another vehicle or harmed/killed a person?

Of course not. That would be a nonconsensual crime. The other people on the road did not ask to have their lives needlessly endangered. Nor can one speed until they hit somebody. The point is, that if you want to get fucked up, feel free. If you want to gamble your money away, I don't mind.

But if you want to point a gun at me, abuse my children, we're talking about something completely different.

I wonder how easy it would be for terrorists to operate if governments put half of the money they waste trying (and failing) to prevent prostitution and drug use into counterterrorism. The other half of the money they waste trying to stop consensual crimes could be spent on something that actually might prevent gambling and drug abuse--education. Cigarette usage has dropped dramatically among teens in Mississippi (one of the few states to use tobacco settlement money for what it was intended) because they have used an agressive fact-based tobacco education program.

 

[wildsweetone]

Nor can one speed until they hit somebody.

Pardon? Please explain.

The point is, that if you want to get fucked up, feel free. If you want to gamble your money away, I don't mind.

I understand what you're saying, but I can't help thinking about both the good and the bad ways that gambling affects us.

bad = billions of dollars worldwide being spent on the ambulance at the bottom of the hill for addicted gamblers.

good = here in NZ, there is a portion of the weekly Lotto money (and other gambling income) which is put back into the community.

In the end, the gambler addict affects all of us. The money which is put to use in helping gamblers overcome their addiction, largely comes from taxes from everyday workers like you and I.

Perhaps the Greek government has simply decided 'enough is enough'. They have decided to quit putting money into something that is guzzling it worse than a badly tuned cadillac.

by the way, terrorism is here to stay. the world isn't perfect, nor are its caregivers. so long as there is choice, there will be terrorism.

 

[Ulyssa]

"The blanket ban was decided in February after the government admitted it was incapable of distinguishing innocuous video games from illegal gambling machines," the report said.

There must be a lot of underground illicit betting on Mario and Luigi--and they're not even Greek.

 

[karmadog]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by karmadog
Nor can one speed until they hit somebody.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Pardon? Please explain.


Drive too fast or recklessly.

bad = billions of dollars worldwide being spent on the ambulance at the bottom of the hill for addicted gamblers.

Huh? The amount of money spent on problem gamblers is a plug nickle compared to the tax revenues brought in. Again, money would be better spent on educating people about the pitfalls of gambling rather than on trying to prevent the unpreventable.

Most unenforceable laws (really, are they going to bust everybody with a copy of Windows?) are used as weapons to harass the unpopular--minorities, political dissenters, or those with unusual lifestyles. In this country, we see that laws like DUI, or speeding are enforced in an more or less evenhanded manner, but when you look at drug enforcement, you find that far more minorities, per capita, are prosecuted.

How even a break do you think ethnic Turks will get in Greece?

 

[its Leslie]

They are thinking of making "weed" legal in Canada.

Now won't that freak out the US eh, bad enough we do business with Cuba eh.

 

[wildsweetone]

I wonder what other method could have been introduced to prevent illegal gambling...?

I took a wander through www.gameland.gr which due to heavy traffic had been forced to set up a simhost site which in turn referred me to a mirror site.

http://www.gameland.gr/index2.htm

Which site, when I scrolled down, showed a letter to the Greek Embassy in Hungary. It was an interesting read.

The first couple of sentences caught my eye,

Either you do not have children in Greece (which I doubt, since I have already been in your country before and saw some) or you want to prepare them a life of boredom and emptyness. For millions of children around the world electronic gaming means a good spending of spare time (instead of ganging, hanging around in the streets and doing other dangerous things.)

Oh boy, I would surely hate my kids to have a life of boredom and emptyness just because they can't use electronic gaming devices...

ps Sorry, I couldn't help myself. lol

 

[karmadog]

Les mentioned:

They are thinking of making "weed" legal in Canada.

Now won't that freak out the US eh, bad enough we do business with Cuba eh.

You crazy Canucks. I think you're just trying to steal some of Amsterdam's drug tourism business.

I don't smoke weed anymore, but I can't understand why it's illlegal in the first place. It's less dangerous to smoke a joint than to eat a Big Mac. On the other hand, after the joint, you'll probably eat the Big Mac anyhow.

 

[its Leslie]

For those marginally interested, I got the start of this thread from a wargamer site earlier this week.

One poster commented that this was a great opportunity to sell board games in Greece

Hmmm that would also likely mean a great opportunity to sell mens magazines, as well as books. Because Greeks won't be buying much in the way of electronic gear soon I suppose.

Oh the horror, having to play a game where you must actually learn the rules first hehe. Books such a dreadful device, you actually have to flip the pages manually. Lego for kids, now that's just tragic. And they might even have to resort to such archaic tools as crayons.

No I must say, my sympathy goes out to the businesses that are going to get a kick in the teeth over this.
The kids won't suffer to long (although any parent that doesn't have some Lego handy is in trouble). Although I am not sure what the average Greek kid does for laughs.

But the lost revenue to sports and the arts (in the same manner as when we give Tobacco the boot and make it persona non grata) is going to get trampled a bit to I think.

Hmmm anyone want to take out a wager how long the Greeks can live without gambling?

I know that doesn't sound very supportive, but then I also don't refrain from calling smokers stupid either (you may feel free to tell me I am stupid for the amount of chocolate I eat hehe).

Enacting a law to help out stupid people with a stupidity addiction, where is the logic? Two stupid choices don't make a good one eh.

 

[Guest]

Weed in Nevada and 'chips in general

If what I am reading in the newspapers has validity, Marijuana, that evil gateway drug may soon be legal in Nevada as a state referendum may appear on an upcoming ballot asking the populace to inhale or to not inhale, at least legally.......And if I may, microchip your pets if you love them, your children if it let's you sleep sounder at night and ain't it about time we microchip convicted criminals......May I have an Amen ?

 

[karmadog]

Won't work

The feds will threaten to cut off all funds. Ashcroft will sue (with our tax dollars), and Bush will go off on them from the bully pulpit.

The interesting thing about all this is that the Republicans are supposed to believe in State's rights. Apparently, they only believe in State's rights as long as they exercise them in a way that conforms to the Republican Party platform.

Remember Oregon and assisted suicide? California and medical marijuana?

 

[its Leslie]

Weed is just weed. A substance, nothing more.

Years ago in a biased decision, it was labelled "wrong" while conventional tobacco is somehow "safe".

But it doesn't stop there.

I can do myself harm with many things.

To much chocolate and I risk the number one killer getting me. At the very least, becoming one of society's number one financial drains.
Or it could be to many burgers or to much pop and chips.

Next we have gambling.
Ruined homes, destroyed marriages, but not to fret, society gets sufficient use out of the money from suckers, and has oodles left over for worthy causes.

Alcohol, where one beer a day is good for digestion, of course 24 is not. "But he was not in full control of himself when he killed that family". I guess somehow that makes it sound better.

Religious beliefs, hmmmm don't wanna waste to much time on this, lets just say 9/11 and KKK and maybe Crusades for historical flavour, and settle for that.

Video games, I am a recovered addict to arcades. So I know how disruptive games are. Didn't cost me a lot of money, I was to good playing them. Did cost me hour after hour every day though.

Cell phones, hmmmm I answer a conventional phone if it pleases me. I sure as hell don't talk on a cell while driving.

To call weed a "gateway" drug, is like saying fucking my wife will lead me to pimping.
I don't use weed, at all ever.
Only an idiot chooses a burning dead plant over a Mars bar eh.
If I have pain I use hot baths. I have a lot of hot baths.

I sure ain't going to give a damn if someone wants to smoke weed.
Of course my friends have to smoke their weed out in the freezing cold on the porch during winter along with the ordinary cigarette smoker friends.

I won't date and or indulge romantically a smoker regardless of what they are smoking.
I also don't suck on car exhaust. Nor do I want the smell in my furniture.

If a person tries weed, they won't automatically migrate to insane drugs.
If I love to eat chocolate, it doesn't mean I will automatically binge eat junk food till I weight 500 pounds either.

I don't care to fret over hard drugs.
Fortunately none of my friends use the stuff. Then again, people that use that stuff will never have me for a friend.
I have certain minimums for IQ in the people I hang out with.
I also don't hang out with racists, wife beaters, religious fanatics, and murderers.

When I think of the tax dollars wasted on hassling people for using "medicinal cigarettes", and how that money could be used intelligntly on our health care system or our education system. It's an easy choice.

Yes you can bet I am not concerned that some morally outraged, religious looney might see it as the slippery slope to rampant drug usage.

The morally outraged religious looney poses a greater threat to me than the weed user.
If tomorrow the weed user tries coke and it kills him, it kills him (stupidity kills people everyday on our highways too).

But the religious looney could be around indefinitely wrecking my life. Now they are something to worry about.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

It's less dangerous to smoke a joint than to eat a Big Mac.

I've never heard of anyone flipping out from a Big Mac and started fighting with someone - nor have I ever heard of anyone getting physical and mental damage from a Big Mac (apart from the colesterol), or anyone who has had flashbacks years after eating his last Big Mac.

Drugs are dangerous. And the most dangerous thing about them is not what they do to your body and to your brain, or what it makes you do to other people, but the fact that it can take so long time before you see the damage it does, that some people won't understand that it really IS dangerous.

 

[its Leslie]

I disagree entirely.

Anything can be dangerous and in some cases lethal.

Religious intolerance will make 9/11 a sad day for many years.

I risked my marriage just playing a Nintendo.

Driving while using a cell phone can cause lethal accidents.

So saying drugs are dangerous says nothing significant. So is foreign photo journalism, should we forbid people reporting news in Jerusalem?

I have fybromyalgia. On days when it combines with a cold it can get rather nasty. 24 hours of pure pain hell is usually the result. I get no relief from taking 5 extra strength tylenol in a single gulp. So I know what futile feels like.

If I could buy a pack of joints for the same casual amount that I would spend to get a 15 pack of smokes would I? Probably not (but I just hate smoking in any form really).
My usual method is a beer some nasal spray, some cough medicine and a few tylenol. My body is then somewhat unable to report fully much of anything, including pain.

My method is legal even if a bit stupid sounding. But why should a person have to be branded a criminal if they want a joint to accomplish the same task?

Saying weed leads to hard drugs is indicative of a predetermined bias, that has already made its mind up and is not even interested in contrary opinions.

 

[Guest]

I've never heard of anyone flipping out from a Big Mac and started fighting with someone - nor have I ever heard of anyone getting physical and mental damage from a Big Mac (apart from the colesterol), or anyone who has had flashbacks years after eating his last Big Mac.

Drugs are dangerous. And the most dangerous thing about them is not what they do to your body and to your brain, or what it makes you do to other people, but the fact that it can take so long time before you see the damage it does, that some people won't understand that it really IS dangerous.

No one has ever overdosed from marijuana. And, while I no longer indulge, I have never seen anyone 'flipping out' from smoking marijuana. At least nowhere but in the movie 'Reefer Madness'. I wasn't aware that anyone still watched that movie for any reason other than irony. Generally the greatest danger from a marijuana smoker is that they'll eat your munchies and fall asleep on your couch.

Les, thankfully, returned to the point. Would you have government decide what is safe for you? Would you give up your freedom to make poor decisions? I would not.

Out of curiosity, how are drug users treated in Sweden? Are they prosecuted and jailed? Are they sent to mandatory rehab clinics? Are they forced to eat pickled herring? What do they do?

 

[karmadog]

Crap

That was me.

 

[wildsweetone]

the first time i smoked pot...

i got in the car in the middle of town and drove... i stopped at a set of traffic lights. the traffic all around me swirled and moved at the red light. i got the fright of my life. thought i was going to get hit from all directions. was an amazing feeling.

and i didn't even smoke it for me, it was research.