Hey Jealousy

[carsonshepherd]

And you can trust me not to think
And not to sleep around
If you don’t expect too much from me
You might not be let down
Cause all I really want is to be with you
Feeling like I matter too
If I hadn’t blown the whole thing years ago
I might be here with you
hey jealousy, hey jealousy


Hi Mindymin!

 

[minsue]

Sibling rivalry is another interesting aspects of jealousy. Thanks for bringing it up, Shanglan.

My brother is one of those golden people who is the best at everything without effort. He always got perfect grades, was popular in school, and won everything and was better at everything than I was. I was the dorky geek.

Was I jealous? Looking back, I don't think so. Jealousy seemed hopeless. I would never be as good at anything as he was, so it was pointless to be envious.

Maybe if I was, it would have motivated me to achieve more.

I was somewhat jealous of my brother's relationship with our mom, but I now know that he was jealous of my closeness with our dad. So I guess it works both ways.

My brother is probably the only person I'm never jealous or envious of. As a kid I was, on occasion, but even then it was rare. It may have been the age difference, we're 6 years apart, and the fact that we were remarkably close. Growing up, I knew there was little he wouldn't do for me and, in the egocentricity of childhood, considered that nothing more than my due. *shakes head* He's extraordinarily charismatic, too, so that probably influences my lack of jealousy. One can't help but like and root for him.

I've had friends with immense sibling rivalries and always wondered what that must be like.

 

[minsue]

Hi Carson!

If you don’t expect too much from me
You might not be let down

That was my motto for a few years there.

 

[impressive]

I've had friends with immense sibling rivalries and always wondered what that must be like.

I was always trying to AVOID my parents' attention, not increase it -- so the sibling stuff kinda baffled me.

 

[carsonshepherd]

My brother is probably the only person I'm never jealous or envious of. As a kid I was, on occasion, but even then it was rare. It may have been the age difference, we're 6 years apart, and the fact that we were remarkably close. Growing up, I knew there was little he wouldn't do for me and, in the egocentricity of childhood, considered that nothing more than my due. *shakes head* He's extraordinarily charismatic, too, so that probably influences my lack of jealousy. One can't help but like and root for him.

I've had friends with immense sibling rivalries and always wondered what that must be like.

Ours was not so much a rivalry as it was a tyrannical dictatorship. I of course being the oppressed masses.

We're over it now. He never really disliked me but I sure wasn't fond of him. Right now I probably like him as much as I ever will. It also turns out we both have the same slightly evil sense of humor...

 

[minsue]

I was always trying to AVOID my parents' attention, not increase it -- so the sibling stuff kinda baffled me.

Exactly! I hated it when my brother moved out and my parents suddenly had all this extra curiosity about where I was and what I was doing all day.

 

[Liar]

Exactly! I hated it when my brother moved out and my parents suddenly had all this extra curiosity about where I was and what I was doing all day.

You know, when I think of it, my siblings are probably the only people I know really well, that I have never had any beef with. It's often been us against everyone else.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Jealousy is pretty much a feeling, like any other, that gives us good information... I don't think it is inherently "bad"... or "good." In monogamous relationships, there is such a thing as "healthy jealousy."

 

[carsonshepherd]

Jealousy is pretty much a feeling, like any other, that gives us good information... I don't think it is inherently "bad"... or "good." In monogamous relationships, there is such a thing as "healthy jealousy."

Well, like anything, it depends on how you act it out. *shrugs*

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Well, like anything, it depends on how you act it out.

amen to that

 

[Guest]

 

[carsonshepherd]

I'm envious a lot, jealous only rarely. That said, I've noticed that when I am jealous, it's in the first, undefined stages of a relationship. Again, there's that insecurity theme--once I know I'm "with" someone, I stop being jealous. While it's going on, however, I try very hard not to give voice to my inner whiner.

In relationships I'm seriously never jealous. I'm just not wired that way. Of course when there is someone I want but I can't have, then I'm just perishing of jealousy of whomever they're spending time with that isn't me, but I think that's pretty normal. Wild horses couldn't drag it out of me when it happens though. Nope, not jealous, not me.

 

[BlackShanglan]

At one time I had serious 'jealous' issues. That was right after my wife had her 'indescretion'. I hadn't ever had jealousy issues before that time...and it took about eight years for those feeling to go away too.

Other than that...I've always pretty much felt that each person gets what they deserve in life...and I have no need to worry or be envious of them. For every good thing you may think that they are having there is always a host of things you may not see that subtract from that good.

I think your feelings there are understandable, while also suggesting the connection between jealousy and a feeling of insecurity - not, in your case, to a sort of permanent personality problem of never feeling secure regardless of the circumstances, but rather to a feeling that the relationship may not be secure due to a painful event.

It's one thing to deal with unfounded jealousy - or perhaps a better way to put it would be "jealousy that one's own actions do not support." Some people are jealous of everyone, either from a desire to control, a deep abiding lack of self-worth, or wariness from having been betrayed in the past. It can be awkward to deal with such people in a relationship, as their reactions to one's behavior are not rooted in the behavior itself, but in prior experience. It's painful and awkward, but also I think part of life. It's a tough skill to learn how to examine one's behavior, identify sources and influences, and explain those to others so as not to make it their problem, but to help them help you - as loved ones will.

But I think it's another thing to deal with jealousy one has caused through one's own behavior. There must, of course, be limits to all things; no one can live the rest of his/her life under permanent suspicion and surveillence. That said, when I have - and, I'm sorry to say, I have - given someone reason to doubt my loyalty or honesty, I have also recognized that I had to own the consequences of those actions. There were going to be feelings of anger, resentment, betrayal, hurt, and suspicion, and for at least some time I would have to swallow them whole and accept them. I'd earned them. If things had continued that way forever without sign of change, eventually I might have had to seek professional aid, and if that didn't work, I suppose that there is a place for recognizing that the damage one has done is not reversable. However, very gratefully in my case, I found that humility, patience, and genuine and sincere regret for my actions eventually were recognized. But my point, if I have one, is that that type of "jealousy" is of a special kind that had reason and deserves to be tolerated. There's no point in criticizing someone for being jealous if one's actions create the insecurity behind it.

Shanglan

 

[carsonshepherd]

There's no point in criticizing someone for being jealous if one's actions create the insecurity behind it.

Shanglan

True, but there's a fine line there.

I have been in this situation, and I've seen it in others, so I know.

Sometimes the injured party takes it too far, and uses the guilt to punish the person that betrayed them. Nothing will make them stop being jealous - nothing is ever enough to convince them they have no reason to be insecure. There will always be that little videoscreen in the back of their head replaying their hurt over and over. You can only hold something over someone's head for so long, and then you're just using it as an excuse.

There is also the "once a cheater, always a cheater" mentality too. I cheated on him so I will probably cheat on you too. That's a tough one to shake, when you're the target of it. Only your own actions can prove otherwise, and if that's not sufficient then it becomes the other person's problem.

 

[BlackShanglan]

My brother is probably the only person I'm never jealous or envious of. As a kid I was, on occasion, but even then it was rare. It may have been the age difference, we're 6 years apart, and the fact that we were remarkably close. Growing up, I knew there was little he wouldn't do for me and, in the egocentricity of childhood, considered that nothing more than my due. *shakes head* He's extraordinarily charismatic, too, so that probably influences my lack of jealousy. One can't help but like and root for him.

I've had friends with immense sibling rivalries and always wondered what that must be like.

Gosling!

Damned good to see you.

What's it like? Hmm. Well, in my case, I remember it primarily as a fear of going home. My parents both worked, so from a relatively early age I came home from school with my (older, stronger) sibling to an otherwise empty house. That could lead to anything from being locked outside for several hours to having my room repeatedly invaded (my sibling broke the lock early and deliberately) to being called abusive names for an hour to being pinned down and spit upon. Not pleasant memories, on the whole. I'm not quite sure what motivated my sibling; my parents chalk it up to the fact that I did better in school, leading to resentment at being compared unfavorably to a younger relative in the small school we attended. Who knows?

I never really felt rivalry myself. For much of my childhood I went to great lengths to attempt to secure my sibling's affections. But something made my sibling hate me. It was clear that my unhappiness was a source of considerable pleasure; often my sibling's actions would have no ulterior motive of personal gain, and the goal seemed simply to make me unhappy. It's still not very comprehensible to me, but perhaps I'm too close to the situation to see it clearly. I assume that there must be some motivation, as there was certainly a great deal of energy put into it. But it was either a very long-reaching motivation or one that becamed strongly ingrained as a habit, as even when we both nearing graduation from college I still found that any interaction with my sibling led to some sort of unpleasant experience - although at that point of a less physical nature.

I supposed you'd need to ask my sibling on the topic of rivalry, really. I didn't feel rivalry myself so much as I felt I was the subject of it. But that's one perspective.

Shanglan

 

[minsue]

I didn't feel rivalry myself so much as I felt I was the subject of it.

Well put. *HUGS*

Oddly, I see a number of parallels between what you wrote and how it was when I got home from school. There was a large age (and therefore size) gap and being held down and tormented was not uncommon. I think the difference being that my brother made his friends let me play, no matter what they were playing. The neighborhood was full of boys his age and very few children my age, boys or girls. He tormented me, locked me out, threw me bodily out of his room, etc, but he also included me. Looking back, I'm amazed at a twelve year old boy that would not only let his six year old little sister play ball in the street with him, but get into fights with his friends until they accepted me as well. In my case, I was very lucky and the good between us far outweighed the bad. It prolly helps that he was quite happy to let me get drunk at his place through my teenage years, too. Bonding, I suppose.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I personally regard it as the most pointless, wasteful, and troublesome emotion of all. I rarely feel it and scold myself on those few occasions that I do so.

 

[Belegon]

Selena, I have to disagree on "Healthy Jealousy". I think you can take such actions and find another reason for them other than jealousy that is equally valid. It is not jealousy to protect oneself from harm for example, be that harm emotional or physical. Jealousy may be a part of it, but I would maintain that it was still not healthy. If I were overweight and lost a lot of weight because of a nasty illness that kept me from keeping food in my stomach, it would not be a "Healthy Illness" just because I had lost weight I needed to lose.

Now, I have to admit here that my concept of "jealousy" is almost impossible to seperate from the negative side of possessiveness as well. This tempers everything I think about it. It is part and parcel of my explanation of a perceived difference between Jealousy & Envy.

My negative feelings about jealousy revolve around the need to deny things to others, rather then the wish to experience them for oneself. If I look at a woman I desire and wish I could sleep with her that is one thing; if I look at her and wish that I could sleep with her and no one else ever could, that is another.

 

[yui]

Shooting from the hip, my reply would be that, I’m possessive. Can’t deny it. I don’t share well … and when I’m with someone, I’m with them. I expect the same, I suppose.

 

[carsonshepherd]

Shooting from the hip, my reply would be that, I’m possessive. Can’t deny it. I don’t share well … and when I’m with someone, I’m with them. I expect the same, I suppose.

I always play nice and share my toys....

the bummer is when other people won't share theirs.

 

[Kev H]

I always play nice and share my toys....

the bummer is when other people won't share theirs.

*chuckles* Cruel, unfair world!

I agree with Belegon - I have a big beef with feeling, even unconsciously, that you own someone. If you truly do not have any feelings of ownership, then you will not have the fertile ground for jealousy to grow. (This is the ideal I have about the institution, not the spirit, of marriage; it's evil, for its roots are based in ownership, but that's a whole other can of worms.)