Here's An Idea.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Locally two large corporations are outsourcing all their white-collar jobs to India. The Indians will do the accounting etc. for a fraction of Americans work for.

So I was thinking: Why cant we do the same with teachers? That is, hire Indian teachers to teleconference with American classrooms. The savings will be incredible.

 

[Pure]

excellent point, jbj. once one decides that cost cutting is the only goal [usually done for profit maximiation, except in cases such as the present one], anything you please, follows. a somewhat related example, historically, is the Brits dumping lots of manufactured fabric in India, ruining the local producers. as is the present case in the US, a 'local producer' say, of handtools or food is NOT conceded to have any right to exist.

cases already have come to light of state legislatures outsourcing jobs. one sees such anomalies as American flags for display on holidays "made in China."

in the US, the idea of a 'social goal,' such as people's feeling of security, or their having jobs, is tending to be called either
a) illegitimate if pursued by legislation, or b) legitimate, but to be addressed by the market only, the "invisible hand."

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

PURE

I have no problem with prices determining how resources are allocated. But I do have a problem with the government pressing the scale with its thumb. That is, both of these corporations were given millions in tax credits to do exactly what they did. Their offices remain here but not the jobs. The millions in tax credits could have been used for civic projects or tax relief.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

To some extent they're already doing it with tutors. Kids can video conference or IM with Indian tutors online. Though, I'm not sure it would work in a classroom situation. If the "computer" teacher gave me detention, I probably wouldn't go.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SCARLETT

I suspect they'll use aides to enforce the will of the teacher.

But I can easily imagine each kid with a computer and a webcam.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

SCARLETT

I suspect they'll use aides to enforce the will of the teacher.

But I can easily imagine each kid with a computer and a webcam.

I'm guessing that's what would have to happen, but then you're paying two people instead of one, even if it's peanuts. As a parent, I wouldn't be on board with it. My child is getting an invaluable service from his teachers in that he's gaining life's experience and a different perspective by his interaction with adults other than myself. I just don't think you can get that experience over a computer.

 

[where]

In hte uk, parents have started sending their kids to Indian private schools because they are cheaper than uk ones. As to getting detention off a computer... I've been caned in cyberspace but I doubt that counts!

 

[amicus]

Good idea JBJ, let's expand on it...

If the education police stopped forcing children to be educated and just those who wanted to learn, could, then a digital set up in the kids bedroom would suffice and Mom could be baking cookies in the kitchen, no longer required to provide a second income as the Property Taxes that went to support the voracious teachers union and building fund, has been abolished and parents can choose how to disburse their funds.

ami...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SCARLETT

We already use aides in most school rooms here. Aides make minimum wage. Schools have used televised instruction since about 1960, so my idea isnt novel.

Where I see things headed is NO real teachers in the classroom, interactive computer teaching, and bureaucrats spend their time in committees shuffling paper.

But teachers are a huge financial burden that must be shed as America becomes like Britain. That is, the money will be necessary to pay for the retirees and welfare bums.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

I think the Boomers are about to force the issue. When the crisis comes we'll decide that the peasants get little from school, anyway, and we can use the school money to wine them, dine them, and buy their butts.

 

[scheherazade_79]

Plonking kids in front of a TV screen instead of having a dynamic flesh and blood teacher in the room?

Depends what kind of lessons you want to provide for generations. If it's a lecture-type-sit-on-your-arse-and-listen-to-me lesson, then it would work fine. The downside is that it's been proven that children retain more from active learning than passive learning. In other words, they need to do stuff and engage with a real human, who can show them where they're going wrong and how to improve. I guess you could have cameras fitted around the classroom that zoom in on the work of groups and individuals, but it seems a poor substitute.

The other issue is the quality of the teaching. Believe it or not, the standard of university degrees differs all around the world. I don't know enough about India's education system to comment, but there are advantages to learning something like English Lit from a native speaker.

Lectures by video conference aren't a new idea. Some British universities have started using them, and parents have been in uproar. What tends to happen (in order to cut costs further) is that the same lecture is broadcast to several lecture halls at the same time. So technically, the remote lecturer could be dealing with questions from about 1000 students... in a 2hour session... as well as delivering a lecture.

I don't know. No disrespect, James, but there are certain things that I don't think governments should be cheapskating on. One is education, the other is health.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SCHERAZADE

Corporate America seems intent on destroying American worker bees, so where's the tax money gonna come from when the white/blue collar jobs all leave for India?

I mean, we can build our cars there and our airplanes...virtually everything for a fraction of what it costs here. So why not teachers, too?

 

[scheherazade_79]

SCHERAZADE

Corporate America seems intent on destroying American worker bees, so where's the tax money gonna come from when the white/blue collar jobs all leave for India?

I mean, we can build our cars there and our airplanes...virtually everything for a fraction of what it costs here. So why not teachers, too?

Because corporate schemes don't transfer that well into the world of education. At the end of the day you're dealing with human minds, not commodities.

And after the experiences I've had with Indian call-centres, I think it would be safe to say that you'd reach a point where no child would ever want to go to school.

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[JAMESBJOHNSON]

All I ever get are screamers and morons.

As for students, I think it's dawning on people that we've pissed away trillions of dollars trying to educate doofus peasants, and more money spent on them is more money pissed away.

 

[R. Richard]

People watch pro sports on TV, rather than go to the local high school games. The reason being that the pros are much more skilled.

There are teachers who are much more skilled. The more skilled teachers should be teaching the masses, via computer screen. Use the best to train the best.

The courses could and should be interspersed with frequent quizes. If a student isn't getting the material, then the student would be forced to go to a central location and listen to the usual incompetent. The student would thereby be motivated to listen, learn and pass the quizes. With modern technology, the quizes could be more than just multiple choice questions.

In addition, there could be midterm and final exams held a a central location to make sure that the student is actually passing the class, rather than using a substitute.

Tutoring help could be available via the Internet. Only the best tutors would survive. The kids would learn at their own rate and we could stop hiring Indian programmers and engineers, because we would be training our own.

 

[scheherazade_79]

People watch pro sports on TV, rather than go to the local high school games. The reason being that the pros are much more skilled.

There are teachers who are much more skilled. The more skilled teachers should be teaching the masses, via computer screen. Use the best to train the best.

The courses could and should be interspersed with frequent quizes. If a student isn't getting the material, then the student would be forced to go to a central location and listen to the usual incompetent. The student would thereby be motivated to listen, learn and pass the quizes. With modern technology, the quizes could be more than just multiple choice questions.

In addition, there could be midterm and final exams held a a central location to make sure that the student is actually passing the class, rather than using a substitute.

Tutoring help could be available via the Internet. Only the best tutors would survive. The kids would learn at their own rate and we could stop hiring Indian programmers and engineers, because we would be training our own.

But if you were learning sport, rather than enjoying it as an entertainment product, surely it would be better to have an instructor there with you in the room?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

But we're not cranking out scholastic champions. Barely 50% of the kids here graduate high school. One ethnic group barely graduates 25%. This is how peasants are.

I say, first day of 1st grade, give them their diploma and an affirmative action coloring book, and send them home.

 

[scheherazade_79]

But we're not cranking out scholastic champions. Barely 50% of the kids here graduate high school. One ethnic group barely graduates 25%. This is how peasants are.

I say, first day of 1st grade, give them their diploma and an affirmative action coloring book, and send them home.

Shouldn't they at least be offered the chance of a good education?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I think educations benefit teachers and bureaucrats.

We need to either get serious about education or make the little bastards pick vegetables for several years.

But schools need to stop being daycare for drooling peasants.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

About 40 years ago some collection of idiots decided that everyone in America would become managers and all the rest of the world would make stuff for us, cheaper. This was done by "professional educators" in government. The result is a system that is only aimed at the academic top 25% of the population while the rest get chided for not wanting to be academics. And this is in a country where the highest average pay goes to one of JBJ's "peasants", the plumber @ $153,000/year.

Go ahead, outsource education and you will get just exactly the kind of service you get when you outsource tech support. Have fun, kiddies.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I have a newsflash for you. Peasants generally do all the heavy lifting. Aristocrats do all the heavy thinking. That said: a plumber is a peasant. A nurse is a peasant. A surgeon is a peasant. If you must work for a living, youre a peasant. Jesus Christ! Surgeons are the spawn of barbers! If your employment requires using your hands, youre a peasant.

 

[OLDERNWISER]

.....

 

[tickledkitty]

I have an idea too, James. Why don't you just go away? For good. Seriously.

 

[scheherazade_79]

But we're not cranking out scholastic champions. Barely 50% of the kids here graduate high school. One ethnic group barely graduates 25%. This is how peasants are.

And yet surgeons are members of this underachieving peasant sub group... I'm getting confused, James

Will rich moms and dads be sending their little treasures to schools that beam in mass produced lessons from Second and Third World countries? Somehow I doubt it.

So the recipients of this little scheme would be kids who didn't have much in the first place. I've known kids from backgrounds like that go on to be damn good airline pilots, surgeons and lawyers, because they were given the same chances as everyone else.

Two-tier systems of education are inevitable in the capitalist world. Privately-funded schools have more money and resources at their disposal, and all kids come from a background where their parents want them to do well. It's a different ball game in the state-run sector, and at the end of the day exam results at private schools are always going to be higher. But that doesn't mean we should write off every kid who attends a state-run school. They can't help their background, and it's wrong to give them the cheapest possible deal because of that. Especially when it's such a poor substitute for having a damn good teacher in the classroom.

Outsource education to other countries, and not only are you going to have to find alternative employment for the millions of teachers, but as a country you'll also find that suddenly all your professionals have to be shipped in from overseas, because the necessary skills won't exist at home.

 

[haldir]

totally misses the point,

learning is an interpersonal experience.

has to be a real person there as the focus for all that rebellion!