HELP! poetry form

[bogusagain]

I'm sure I've seen plenty of forms on Lit that would suit my purpose but now I want one I can't find any. I'm looking for a poetry form for an art work that can be used to hide a didactic message within a poem. For example...

He blah blah blah
is blah blah blah
the blah blah blah
guilty blah blah
one blah blah blah

Now the point is, someone with a sharp eye should see it but it shouldn't be so easy so it is too obvious.

suggestions would be welcome. As would poems if you are of a mind to show and example.

 

[midwicket]

Why not just create one of your own ... You've got your starter and you know what you want. Why confine yourself to "what has gone before" - forgive the cliché!

 

[Matryoshka]

I was wondering how long it usually takes for a poem submission to be posted usually?

My second question is...I've seen some of the reviews where a poem is torn apart because it doesn't fit expectations of syllables or poem type. Isn't it the content and meaning that is truly important? Not everyone feels the same about a subject, but if the poem shows you a glimpse of what the poet sees, feels etc, hasn't it done it's job? To be honest I'm extremely nervous about those reviews on my first poem I was finally brave enough to share.

 

[twelveoone]

I was wondering how long it usually takes for a poem submission to be posted usually?

My second question is...I've seen some of the reviews where a poem is torn apart because it doesn't fit expectations of syllables or poem type. Isn't it the content and meaning that is truly important? Not everyone feels the same about a subject, but if the poem shows you a glimpse of what the poet sees, feels etc, hasn't it done it's job? To be honest I'm extremely nervous about those reviews on my first poem I was finally brave enough to share.

Generally a day or two, if it is just text. Maybe longer is you submit it as word.

Now your poem is text. The comments are text. Either can be safely ignored.
What I would recommend is before you submit anything on the current new poems, take a look at the comments. You will see some names that both submit and comment. Comment on their poems.

You can also post here, in a thread. That may be a better idea as it can be interactive.

I would also recommend that anytime five poems by one person is posted in a short time, tends to suggest that perhaps you really are not that interested in poetry as poetry.

Good Luck.

 

[Tsotha]

I was wondering how long it usually takes for a poem submission to be posted usually?

My second question is...I've seen some of the reviews where a poem is torn apart because it doesn't fit expectations of syllables or poem type. Isn't it the content and meaning that is truly important? Not everyone feels the same about a subject, but if the poem shows you a glimpse of what the poet sees, feels etc, hasn't it done it's job? To be honest I'm extremely nervous about those reviews on my first poem I was finally brave enough to share.

Matryoshka, this thread was started by bogusagain to ask a question. Ideally, you should start your own thread if what you're going to say isn't related to the original post (not trying to be mean, just pointing out a piece of forum etiquette). I've answered your question in another thread; I hope you follow the link to see it.

 

[Matryoshka]

Generally a day or two, if it is just text. Maybe longer is you submit it as word.

Now your poem is text. The comments are text. Either can be safely ignored.
What I would recommend is before you submit anything on the current new poems, take a look at the comments. You will see some names that both submit and comment. Comment on their poems.

You can also post here, in a thread. That may be a better idea as it can be interactive.

I would also recommend that anytime five poems by one person is posted in a short time, tends to suggest that perhaps you really are not that interested in poetry as poetry.

Good Luck.

Thank you...your advice is very much appreciated. I've been reading the poetry and am addicted to the writings a couple of people who are interactive on here. I've been trying to learn the "poetry world" as it is on Lit and didn't feel comfortable enough to post my opinions before but I think I am now.
As to the 5 poems at once...it would have to be one helluva day to have inspired writing that many all at once. Hehe
Thanks again!

 

[Tsotha]

I'm sure I've seen plenty of forms on Lit that would suit my purpose but now I want one I can't find any. I'm looking for a poetry form for an art work that can be used to hide a didactic message within a poem. For example...

He blah blah blah
is blah blah blah
the blah blah blah
guilty blah blah
one blah blah blah

Now the point is, someone with a sharp eye should see it but it shouldn't be so easy so it is too obvious.

suggestions would be welcome. As would poems if you are of a mind to show and example.

You should use the world-famous technique, the "unroll"! *cough, cough* Ok, maybe not a good idea.

But indeed, why not just come up with something yourself? Or would you prefer to use a technique such that the hidden message is not only something that good eyes can spot, but that someone who is aware of the form can reliably find?

Personally, I'd write a regular poem, leaving a hint in the text itself that there is a thread to pull, to start unraveling a hidden message. Just a small allusion to "something missing", that a perceptive (mentally, not visually) person might become aware of.

Then I'd try to hide the second message, somehow. By leaving this "encoding" free form, it's easier to keep the "obvious" part from being butchered. I think the worst case scenario would be for the hidden message to make the obvious message so awkward to read that it's impossible to not see that something is hidden...

 

[twelveoone]

I'm sure I've seen plenty of forms on Lit that would suit my purpose but now I want one I can't find any. I'm looking for a poetry form for an art work that can be used to hide a didactic message within a poem. For example...

He blah blah blah
is blah blah blah
the blah blah blah
guilty blah blah
one blah blah blah

Now the point is, someone with a sharp eye should see it but it shouldn't be so easy so it is too obvious.

suggestions would be welcome. As would poems if you are of a mind to show and example.

He blah blah blah,blah
blahis blah blah, blah
blah blahthe blah blah
blah blah blahguilty blah
blah blah blah blahone

see also the Pentinahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentina

you may also want to google hidden messages in Shakespeare, but that is more coding

What it sounds like you want, you are already did, I just cut it though diagonally.
another would be use the words as sentence starts, or if the person is a real shit after colons.

 

[Tsotha]

another would be use the words as sentence starts, or if the person is a real shit after colons.

Or every first character of each word. Or every last. Or every first character, except in reverse (if you want no one to see it). Or every third word. Or...

So many ways to hide messages.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

An acrostic has the words hidden as first letters (and the last in a double acrostic) but that is usually just one word

 

[twelveoone]

Thank you...your advice is very much appreciated. I've been reading the poetry and am addicted to the writings a couple of people who are interactive on here. I've been trying to learn the "poetry world" as it is on Lit and didn't feel comfortable enough to post my opinions before but I think I am now.
As to the 5 poems at once...it would have to be one helluva day to have inspired writing that many all at once. Hehe
Thanks again!

there are programs for that, good luck with your recovery.

opinion- what is it doing that causes me to like it (and why, discover that on your own) press 5

 

[Tsotha]

opinion- what is it doing that causes me to like it (and why, discover that on your own) press 5

Funny, that's exactly my approach to commenting.

... and thank you very much for undermining my attempt to take this conversation elsewhere.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I was wondering how long it usually takes for a poem submission to be posted usually?

My second question is...I've seen some of the reviews where a poem is torn apart because it doesn't fit expectations of syllables or poem type. Isn't it the content and meaning that is truly important? Not everyone feels the same about a subject, but if the poem shows you a glimpse of what the poet sees, feels etc, hasn't it done it's job? To be honest I'm extremely nervous about those reviews on my first poem I was finally brave enough to share.

If you are writing to a certain form then it would be pointed out where you have slipped out of the form and how to make it fit more to that form. This is called critique and is not criticism, some people don't seem to be able to take critique and to learn the difference. We've all had critiques and it's the way to grow as a poet.

 

[twelveoone]

Funny, that's exactly my approach to commenting.

... and thank you very much for undermining my attempt to take this conversation elsewhere.

I am very good at what I do.

 

[Matryoshka]

If you are writing to a certain form then it would be pointed out where you have slipped out of the form and how to make it fit more to that form. This is called critique and is not criticism, some people don't seem to be able to take critique and to learn the difference. We've all had critiques and it's the way to grow as a poet.

Agreed...and growth is important. Critiques are a way to evolve beyond self-made limitations, and I welcome them. I'm thinking I should learn more form, so I'm not abusing sensibilities - and it can only make my writing stronger.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Agreed...and growth is important. Critiques are a way to evolve beyond self-made limitations, and I welcome them. I'm thinking I should learn more form, so I'm not abusing sensibilities - and it can only make my writing stronger.

A good place to start

 

[bogusagain]

Well, at least I've managed to generate a lot of hot air!

Maybe I am wrong but I could have swore I once saw a thread on something similar of literotica once. I suppose I must have been wrong.

 

[Angeline]

Well, at least I've managed to generate a lot of hot air!

Maybe I am wrong but I could have swore I once saw a thread on something similar of literotica once. I suppose I must have been wrong.

Okay bogus here is some advice I hope is practical. If the message you want to semi-conceal is short, the easiest thing to do would be to write an acrostic, where the first letter of each line spells out a message when those letters are read vertically, ok? If the message is longer, like a sentence as opposed to a word or two, you either have a longer poem or develop some other pattern of your own that works. In most cases, you should be able to keep it short enough to do a single or double acrostic.

Hope this helps.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

How hidden do you want it to be? If you're going to thread it through the poem unless you hi-light (and then it's not hidden!) nobody will notice without a hint! Often Acrostics get missed for what they are ........... I once did an Acrostic meets a Tritina that might be the sort of thing you need.
.
Easy on my eye you bend in for a kiss
Relying on the merest subtle touch
Over my skin, a haiku of sensation

Trickling across vellum, a sure sensation
Increased by every fervent melting kiss
Covering my nakedness, I yearn a touch.

Special in every way each newest touch,
Unerringly reaching for a final sensation,
Master of seduction from that first kiss.

Melding as if as one and joined to kiss
Elusive longings disappear, sensation
Revealed before your insistent touch.

A kiss a sensual touch, devoured by sensation.

 

[Tzara]

I'm sure I've seen plenty of forms on Lit that would suit my purpose but now I want one I can't find any. I'm looking for a poetry form for an art work that can be used to hide a didactic message within a poem. For example...

He blah blah blah
is blah blah blah
the blah blah blah
guilty blah blah
one blah blah blah

Now the point is, someone with a sharp eye should see it but it shouldn't be so easy so it is too obvious.

suggestions would be welcome. As would poems if you are of a mind to show and example.

It sounds like you are talking about writing a steganographic poem. (Steganography is the art of concealing/hiding a message within another message without resorting to cryptography.)

Here's an interesting thread of comments on steganographic poetry (the comments, not Schneier's initial link, though that is interesting as well). The first "poem" is a simple acrostic, but the exchange of poems between George Sand and Alfred de Musset (beginning with the second comment and following) is the really interesting part and speaks to some of the kinds of techniques that could be used in hiding a (in this case, erotic) message inside of an innocuous one.

 

[Angeline]

It sounds like you are talking about writing a steganographic poem. (Steganography is the art of concealing/hiding a message within another message without resorting to cryptography.)

Here's an interesting thread of comments on steganographic poetry (the comments, not Schneier's initial link, though that is interesting as well). The first "poem" is a simple acrostic, but the exchange of poems between George Sand and Alfred de Musset (beginning with the second comment and following) is the really interesting part and speaks to some of the kinds of techniques that could be used in hiding a (in this case, erotic) message inside of an innocuous one.

Heh. I knew you would know.

 

[Tsotha]

Hiding a message using a known hiding message isn't really hiding, is it?

 

[twelveoone]

Well, at least I've managed to generate a lot of hot air!


Maybe I am wrong but I could have swore I once saw a thread on something similar of literotica once. I suppose I must have been wrong.

yo, stuffy, M commented on your poem in the other thread.
means she is either a liverpool fan
or ex-stasi

you could't see it in the text?

 

[bogusagain]

It sounds like you are talking about writing a steganographic poem. (Steganography is the art of concealing/hiding a message within another message without resorting to cryptography.)

Here's an interesting thread of comments on steganographic poetry (the comments, not Schneier's initial link, though that is interesting as well). The first "poem" is a simple acrostic, but the exchange of poems between George Sand and Alfred de Musset (beginning with the second comment and following) is the really interesting part and speaks to some of the kinds of techniques that could be used in hiding a (in this case, erotic) message inside of an innocuous one.

Nice one Tzara. That is the sort of thing I am thinking of.

I hope your boss realises you should be promoted and your pension enhanced.

 

[bogusagain]

yo, stuffy, M commented on your poem in the other thread.
means she is either a liverpool fan
or ex-stasi

you could't see it in the text?

Thanks for directing me there. I'm into Ost nostalgia, those girls are fiercely perverted.