Help: How do you ...

[Krinaia]

Okay, I know a few of you have probably questioned my submissive tendencies what with my sassy mouth and hot temper and whatnot. But I just started a new job and I see what could be a problem developing and some advice from a few of the more experienced of yous would be much appreciated.

Here's the situtation: Myself and my fellow intern both noticed on our first day that all the people in the firm of a status above us were... male. The owner, the registered professionals, the not so newly graduated graduates, the newly graduated graduates, and those peseky engineers.

So, I have many males on the heirarchal ladder above me. Now, I will not be climbing the ladder until post-graduation but I want to make the right sort of habits now and also get the most out of my internship.

Yet, I have noticed myself looking down, saying sir a lot. Giving weak handshakes. How do I assert myself? Or do I use my submission to my advantage? What is appropriate? I know there are other female submissive professionals out there and I'd like to hear and be advised on how you handle such situations.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I don't know anything else but I sure do love engineers.

 

[Krinaia]

yes, pocket protectors are HOT.... one of the engineers came over to chat ... he looked at me but my fellow intern dominated the conversation... so i got to work as she was discussing rome and traveling in europe and i could do nothing but ((bitterly)) say i hadn't been though i wished to. sigh.

anyone? I'm willing to take private pms on this one lol.

how, do i, as submissive in a male dominated feild, not let that part of myself take over when i'm at work? or is there a way to let it work towards my advantage?

 

[FungiUg]

Unless you are in a job where being in the background is required, I don't recommend submission as a way to advance your career. Learn to be assertive. This has nothing to do with D/s -- and everything to do with getting what you want out of your career.

There are stacks of books on being assertive, taking charge of your career direction, etc. So go browse the library.

 

[Kajira Callista]

just a subbie tip....look at their forehead as close to their eyes as you can when you need to look them in the eye, look down at your hand when you shake theirs and shake firmly. Avoiding the direct eye contact usually helps me till i get used to being around new ppl.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Comes down to deciding who you are and want to be. Do you want to get places by playing the helpless female sub or do you want to be respected for your abilities and work? It has nothing to do with your being a submissive or not....that is a seperate issue altogether, the same as most or all your male colleagues most likely have no idea what a Dominant is. If you find it intimidating, which is not that unusual when you are first out, check some women's centres and see if they have some assertiveness courses which could help. I know in Australia they used to have some geared toward female professionals and surviving the male dominated regime without compromising your principles or dignity. Set your boundaries between personal and professional early by not putting the two together in your head...they are not the same. Most of all remember your rights and that they are human too. Good luck.

Catalina

 

[Krinaia]

Yah, well they teach us design and structures and materials - i know more about concrete than any person would want to know - but how to actually survive in the work place? I figure if I make it through the first week without putting my foot in my mouth - I'm doing good.

But I'm just not sure how to handle being the one of the few females in a workplace. Lucky for me, the guys are very helpful. And I'm asking all the question I can now while they're expected and appreciated so that I won't have to ask them when I'm supposed to know the stuff. My head is so crammed full of new stuff that I might explode.

Thanks, Fungus. I will definitely check that out as soon as I get my car and a library card. I could also make use of a coffee shop with my book in hand - perhaps meet some hot young men.

 

[Desdemona]

I had to learn to be assertive because I deal with the ones who have a god complex on a daily basis: doctors. It's not in my nature to be assertive and it was not comfortable. Sometimes, I revert back to my subbie self without realising it.

When I know I'm going to be dealing with one of them I generally prepare myself, take a deep breath, remind myself that I know my business and I just do it. Over time it gets easier. Classes and books help. Practice helps. Developing a friendly rappor on a colleague level helps sometimes. If you're dealing with somebody who really is an alpha type, imagine that person with a zuchinni up the butt... (it kinda takes their power away in my head and makes them seem more like a peer). I play all sorts of mental head games sometimes so that I can be assertive when necessary. If I have ever seen that person fuck up, I remind myself of that too; take them off the pedestal any way you can in your head. Also, if you can win the respect of one of these guys who is mouthy... it helps. I found a couple of docs who are talkers. They think everybody ought to know their opinion, good, bad or indifferent. I made it my business to win these guys over and they spread the news among their peers that I'm great at what I do. It paved the way for me.

I've found that over time, as these people get to know me and develop a respect for me and my abilities, the way they treat me changes and I don't have to work as hard for that assertive headspace. In other words, they begin to make it easier for me to behave as an equal because of our respect for each other. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but I know what I mean.

I hope that helps.

 

[navarre]

<------------------------ mechanical engineer

 

[A Desert Rose]

<------------------------ mechanical engineer

Can you build stuff.... like neato bondage things? Can you fit them in a carry on?

 

[navarre]

Can you build stuff.... like neato bondage things? Can you fit them in a carry on?

Yes to both.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Yes to both.

This is good information to know. Thank you.

 

[Krinaia]

<------------------------ mechanical engineer

yummers

 

[Netzach]

Find your ass a woman in your profession at a higher level than you are who you look up to. There's almost definitely a professional mentoring program for women in architecture or a networking group or something.

Sometimes the trick is not to imagine you are strapping one on under your skirt (though that helps me) but to have someone to talk to!

 

[FungiUg]

Find your ass

Hint: usually somewhere between the back of your thighs and the small of your back.

 

[NCShin]

I agree with most posters here. They give good advice.

In my last job there was a girl/woman there who i found to have very submissive tendencies. She was very good at her job and as lead tech always wanted to make sure that her quietness didn't get in the way of her good work.

It was quite hard to do. One of the things that she had to deal with was telling male techs from around the country what to do and how to do it. She had a hard time with this. She couldn't assert herself, speak loud enough to talk over techs who were sometimes arguing on what the correct course of action was.

This was what held her back. Not her knowledge or her work. The fact that when needed, she couldn't tell people to just shut up and listen to her.

I don't think there is any place for workplace submission in the corporate environment. Despite whatever fantasies you may have, there are such strict rules within most companies none of them will ever be fulfilled. So just do your best and leave your submission at the door.

 

[redelicious]

There is also something to be said for time. Remember this is a new situation for you anyway. I don't care what the job is or how much school you have been through, the first year can be nerve-wracking.

I remember my first real job teaching. True, it's not a male dominated field but I was definetely intimidated by the men, whether they were teachers, psychologists, or administrators. It didn't matter. I remember hiding out in my classroom many a day during lunch to avoid embarrassment (keep in mind, I am not exactly shy). After a while I realised how silly I was, and that I would just have to adapt to the professional environment where I would have to deal with *gasp* men on a daily basis. It was hard at first, but in time as I became more confident with myself I also became more comfortable in my new surroundings. Now that I am older and more experienced being around the guys doesn't phase me in the least.

You will adapt.

 

[Krinaia]

I think what I was originally thinking was learning to channel the things that make me a good submissive into a good employee and then adding some assertiveness and also using my mean competitive nature to its full advantage.

I'm an alpha sub I think... I've heard someone else say that before. I can see myself someday topping another female but I tend to get shy, quiet and submissive around men. It's hard to find a good female in the field, internationally of big name architects - I can think of 50+ someodd male architects and only two females. Perhaps I'm just not paying close enough attention.

But as to funneling the things that would make me a good submissive into making me a good architect:


Being attentive to my dominant/boss/client's needs - making sure they have what the need and want before they need or want it and getting it to them promptly.

Sometimes putting my own needs and wants aside to get done for them what they require or demand.

there are a lot of others floating around in my head with no real way to put them down... just yet... but i think you get the idea

 

[Etoile]

I'm an alpha sub I think... I've heard someone else say that before. I can see myself someday topping another female but I tend to get shy, quiet and submissive around men.

I've never heard of "alpha sub" before (sounds like an oxymoron to me) but you are not along in feeling like you could top women while also wanting to submit to men. I know of many other women who feel that way. (I'm not one of them, but they are out there.)

 

[Netzach]

Hey, she doesn't have to be the best in the world, she only has to be

A. Practising competently, so what if she might be an independent sustainable cabin person instead of Ellerbee Beckett?

and

B. Cool and able to speak about her experience, gives you a good interpersonal vibe

I didn't get trained by Midori, admittedly. but I tie a mean chest harness and I learned it from someone no one knows.

 

[Krinaia]

Right but I was thinking of big names as a way to sort of figure out round about how many female professionals i can think of.

There is one - the mother of one of my classmates who was so condescending I wouldn't ask her for help if she got down on her knees and begged me while likcing my smelliest sneakers.

There are orgs for women in architecture - perhaps I should become affliated with one. It's just I've played big roles in other student organizations - I dunno though, perhaps it would give me a leg up. But I do have to choose a mentor (I believe) and perhaps as I look for one, I should choose a female.

Though I feel myself liking my current boss (male) and I think he's seen the good in me so I'm glad. I'm even more glad to be discovering htat I like the reality of practicing architecture when the schooling has been such hell.

 

[TNRkitect2b]

<snip>

Though I feel myself liking my current boss (male) and I think he's seen the good in me so I'm glad. I'm even more glad to be discovering htat I like the reality of practicing architecture when the schooling has been such hell.

Now you understand why I was willing to subject myself to the torture after working in a firm for a number of years. though I do agree that you might want to consider a female architect as a mentor. Like it or not, it is a male dominated profession, and she would have greater insights on how to deal with the inter-professional relations than a male would. (we tend to be oblivious a lot of the time)

 

[ownedsubgal]

I agree with most posters here. They give good advice.

In my last job there was a girl/woman there who i found to have very submissive tendencies. She was very good at her job and as lead tech always wanted to make sure that her quietness didn't get in the way of her good work.

It was quite hard to do. One of the things that she had to deal with was telling male techs from around the country what to do and how to do it. She had a hard time with this. She couldn't assert herself, speak loud enough to talk over techs who were sometimes arguing on what the correct course of action was.

This was what held her back. Not her knowledge or her work. The fact that when needed, she couldn't tell people to just shut up and listen to her.

I don't think there is any place for workplace submission in the corporate environment. Despite whatever fantasies you may have, there are such strict rules within most companies none of them will ever be fulfilled. So just do your best and leave your submission at the door.

some cannot leave their submission at the door...for some their submission is an all-encompassing part of their nature, and they cannot switch it on and off, or control it at will. i can relate to having problems at work relating to being a submissive...when you're intelligent, passive, quiet, shy, timid, with the overwhelming instinct to please and serve, a funny thing happens...you develop a good reputation in the workplace, because you do your work, times 10...because you don't play around on the job, because you do what management says, because you never get an "attitude", etc...and then they want to promote you. but a promotion only leads to having power over other people, which for a submissive like me is utterly impossible. i can't tell people what to do. i can't manage people. i can't lead or direct. i may have the ability and intelligence to do a certain job, but when it gets to the point of having authority over others, in any kind of way...i just can't do it. and this is the reason why i could only ever have a service, subordinate kind of job. i flourished best as an admin assistant...doing the office grunt work, working my bum off, getting little recognition...that to me was ideal. i am so happy that Daddy does not want me working outside the home at this point in life, but if i ever enter the workplace again, there are clear and rigid limits, set by my submissive nature, on what i can and cannot do.

 

[Netzach]

I have to echo your sentiments on telling other people what to do. I get no pleasure out of this in a professional capacity...zero zilch. Ugh.

It's not a submissive trait, in me...it's more that I hate the stupid heirarchies and structures. Stay out of my way and let me be brilliant and don't make me get in anyone else's either.

Funny, you'd think a control freak like me would want an assistant or seven. Nah, just leave me alone I beg you.

some cannot leave their submission at the door...for some their submission is an all-encompassing part of their nature, and they cannot switch it on and off, or control it at will. i can relate to having problems at work relating to being a submissive...when you're intelligent, passive, quiet, shy, timid, with the overwhelming instinct to please and serve, a funny thing happens...you develop a good reputation in the workplace, because you do your work, times 10...because you don't play around on the job, because you do what management says, because you never get an "attitude", etc...and then they want to promote you. but a promotion only leads to having power over other people, which for a submissive like me is utterly impossible. i can't tell people what to do. i can't manage people. i can't lead or direct. i may have the ability and intelligence to do a certain job, but when it gets to the point of having authority over others, in any kind of way...i just can't do it. and this is the reason why i could only ever have a service, subordinate kind of job. i flourished best as an admin assistant...doing the office grunt work, working my bum off, getting little recognition...that to me was ideal. i am so happy that Daddy does not want me working outside the home at this point in life, but if i ever enter the workplace again, there are clear and rigid limits, set by my submissive nature, on what i can and cannot do.

 

[Netzach]

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