Healthcare spending in the United States rose to $1.3 trillion in 2000, up 6.9%

[WriterDom]

Do we spend too much money extending the life of the oldest segment of the population?


http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020108/bs/health_spending_dc_1.html

``All the excitement and advances in medical technology over the last 20 year is a double-edged sword,'' Loss said. ``Twenty- five years ago, people died when they had a heart attack. Now they can live through three and four heart attacks. That causes health care costs to go up, but is that bad? That's an argument that society hasn't come to grips with.''

 

[morninggirl5]

Do we spend too much money extending the life of the oldest segment of the population?


http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020108/bs/health_spending_dc_1.html

``All the excitement and advances in medical technology over the last 20 year is a double-edged sword,'' Loss said. ``Twenty- five years ago, people died when they had a heart attack. Now they can live through three and four heart attacks. That causes health care costs to go up, but is that bad? That's an argument that society hasn't come to grips with.''

From an economics standpoint and perhaps from an evolutional one as well, the obvious answer is probably yes.

BUT who cares about economics or evolution when it's their family member in the hospital after a heart attack. There is no price to be put on the life of a loved one. So, the answer is NO we don't spend too much on any segment of the population to provide them with health care that extends their life.

 

[lavender]

 

[Desdemona]

Do we spend too much money extending the life of the oldest segment of the population?


http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020108/bs/health_spending_dc_1.html

``All the excitement and advances in medical technology over the last 20 year is a double-edged sword,'' Loss said. ``Twenty- five years ago, people died when they had a heart attack. Now they can live through three and four heart attacks. That causes health care costs to go up, but is that bad? That's an argument that society hasn't come to grips with.''

Its not living through 3 or 4 heart attacks that drives costs up. It is providing futile care to people who are actively dying instead of making them comfortable and helping them and their family say goodbye. I know that sounds harsh, but it is an unfortunate reality that I have seen far too many times over the last 20 years.

The other thing that drives up costs is stupid mismanagement of medicare/medicaid funds by beaurocrats. Here's an example. A patient has an infection with one of the "superbugs". His course of treatment will include 6 weeks of IV antibiotic therapy. All else being equal, this treatment could be provided in the home for far less than $200 per day (I don't have exact figures at my fingertips tonight and it varies depending on location anyway). Medicare/medicaid and most insurance companies will not cover the cost of IV antibiotics in the home. If the patient does not have transportation to an outpatient clinic to get his medication on a daily basis, he will have to be placed in a nursing home or other facility at a much higher cost in order to receive his medication for the duration of therapy.

All right, enough ranting for one night. I could go on for hours about this topic. Sorry. Des

 

[WriterDom]

I, for one, am fucking glad that insurance whether private or public, cover these life-extending measures. If they didn't, my father wouldn't be around.

What if your father was Ronald Reagan and the last time he even recognized your face was 5 years ago?

 

[TheSaxMan]

Just keep in mind that while we may pay now for the elder generation, when we're all old and need medical care, it's our kids that are going to pay for us. You may not personally be helped, but I have a feeling that most of us would like to be cared for when we get old.

Also, while I'm thinking about it, there was a decent sci-fi book about this called Holy Fire by Bruce Sterling. Anybody read it?

 

[pdx39]

More bang for the buck

Canada gives all of it's citizens free cradle to grave healthcare on only 11% of the economy with a single payer system.

The US spends 20% on healthcare and 46 million are still uninsured. Canada's system may not be perfect, but the US would be lucky to have Canada's healthcare problems instead of the ones it currently has.

 

[miles]

pdx39

Pdx, you only tell half the story.

Health care in Canada is anything but "free." Who do you think pays for it? The government? No - they collect the money in the form of outrageous taxes and redistribute it.

I'd like to hear from some of the Canadians on the board how they feel about their "free" health care AND about their taxes.


Health care costs are going to eventually cave in to the forces of a free market. They are out of control because of Medicare and employer paid insurance benefits, which is becoming a dinosaur that companies don't want to screw with any longer.
Employees have no earthly idea what their actual health coverage costs, but they are beginning to find out. There is a growing trend for companies to give their employees the money they spend on health insurance and tell them they are on their own. Who can blame them? As long as employees have no vested interest in keeping health care costs down prices will remain high. Their attitude is "Someone else" is paying for it. When people have to take responsibility for their own health insurance just like any other insurance, they will demand the best service at the lowest price. Period.

Be honest - if you were starting your own business tomorrow - would you pay for your employees' health care knowing your costs would double every couple of years?

(I know - some would never do anything as evil as own their own business,)

 

[pdx39]

Re: pdx39

Be honest - if you were starting your own business tomorrow - would you pay for your employees' health care knowing your costs would double every couple of years?

(I know - some would never do anything as evil as own their own business,)

Yes. It would be my civic duty to do such as an employer until a universial healthcare system was established.

 

[miles]

pdx39

That's very noble, but your healthcare costs continue to escalate, and something has to giive. Once you have cut all your expenses to the bone there is only one left - the most controllable expense in business - payroll. You either reduce the number of employees you have or the hours they work, because if you don't you go out of business.

If you say it doesn't happen, then you have no real-life experience.

 

[p_p_man]

miles...

a free health service is only in your perception of the word free.

In the UK we say we have a free health service, but it's not true. We pay through our National Insurance Stamps. And if you are unemployed or on low income it is paid for you from another Government budget.

But we don't think of it that way. We know that if we are sick we go along to our local doctor or in serious cases our local hospital and get treated without question. Unlike the USA where you have to prove you have Health Care Insurance. Another instance where America isn't quite as advanced as she likes to think she is.

A few months ago one of the regulars here suddenly had bruises appear on her body and she posted photographs showing how bad they were. But she couldn't get treatment because she had no insurance.

A barbaric way for a country to treat its citizens? Of course. It would never happen over here because we have 'free' National Health.

 

[Laurel]

I personally am appalled at how much we spend to keep the elderly alive. To think of all the trillions of dollars that go into subsidizing our health care system! Just imagine all the bombs we could make with that money! All the oil wells we could dig! All the posh Washington donor parties we could throw! First they want money for health care, then money for schools. I really don't know where people get off trying to milk the system. You'd think it was their government or something, the way they act!

 

[miles]

It never ceases to amaze me how "the government" is held responsible for health care but at the same time damned for censorship!

Stay out of my bedroom. Stay out of my email. Don't come snooping in my personal life. None of your business what I read.

I'm sick. Please take care of me.

Being free from government swings both ways. The government has no money unless they print it themselves (which they have been doing for years).

The government does not create wealth.

The only way the government can get money is through taxes. Period.

If you want the government to provide health care, the only way they can do it is to take the money from someone else and redistribute it to you.

I'm going to bed. I'm glad I wont have to see the "you use the government 's roads, police, etc" tired old responses again.

 

[p_p_man]

If you want the government to provide health care, the only way they can do it is to take the money from someone else and redistribute it to you.

Or rethink how you spend what you've already got. And taxes don't necessarily mean income tax. There are other less painful ways to raise money. Sales Tax for one, on items that have been kept artificially low.

 

[p_p_man]

If you want the government to provide health care, the only way they can do it is to take the money from someone else and redistribute it to you.

Or rethink how you spend what you've already got. And taxes don't necessarily mean income tax. There are other less painful ways to raise money. Sales Tax for one, on items that have been kept artificially low.

 

[p_p_man]

Ooops sorry...

The Board's slowed down to a snail's crawl and I got fed up with waiting for my post to be submitted, so I kept pressing the submit button, after refreshing the page a few times...

 

[miles]

PEEPEE

Sales Tax for one,

We agree!!!!!!!!

A national sales tax is the easiest, fairest way to collect taxes.
The more you spend, the more taxes you pay. And yes, if you are under a cetain income level, you are tax exempt.

Toss out all the loopholes, deductions, and mystery surrounding taxes. No one can cheat. No one can fail to report. Everyone pays.

It will never happen. Why?

The IRS would have to be abolished
It kills the Democrats tax the rich bullshit
It would eliminate corporate taxes (wouldnt need it - Dems hate it)

The system of colletion is already in place in every state. It would work. There is no reason for it not to.

Even the government admits their revenues would increase far beyond current collections.

Why isn't it being done? Hmmmm. Not much mystery here, kiddies.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: PEEPEE

Sales Tax for one,

We agree!!!!!!!!

A national sales tax is the easiest, fairest way to collect taxes.
The more you spend, the more taxes you pay. And yes, if you are under a cetain income level, you are tax exempt.

Toss out all the loopholes, deductions, and mystery surrounding taxes. No one can cheat. No one can fail to report. Everyone pays.

It will never happen. Why?

It works in Europe but then we have Income Tax and Sales Tax.

Which is what I meant.

 

[Laurel]

It never ceases to amaze me how "the government" is held responsible for health care but at the same time damned for censorship!

Stay out of my bedroom. Stay out of my email. Don't come snooping in my personal life. None of your business what I read.

I'm sick. Please take care of me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the purpose of government to pool our resources and take care of things that we as individuals cannot - things that improve our country and make us stronger (i.e. roads, police, military, etc.?).

Censorship goes against the Constitution of the US. I don't see what exactly that has to do with the topic at hand.

I also don't hear you complain when we spend billions of tax dollars bombing some godforsaken speck of dirt, or funnel it into the airline industry, or prop up some failing corporation.

Conservatives spend as much of our tax monies on government programs. They're not any more frugal than progressives. They just choose different programs.

Is that you in your av?

 

[Laurel]

Re: PEEPEE

Sales Tax for one,

We agree!!!!!!!!

A national sales tax is the easiest, fairest way to collect taxes.
The more you spend, the more taxes you pay. And yes, if you are under a cetain income level, you are tax exempt.

I'm with ya. It makes so much sense that it will never ever be approved.

The IRS would have to be abolished
It kills the Democrats tax the rich bullshit
It would eliminate corporate taxes (wouldnt need it - Dems hate it)

Oh please. There's a difference between rich folk and corporations. I dig rich folk - I'd like to be one someday. I'm wary of corporations - for the same reasons I am wary of government. Anyone who trusts one and not the other is not in tune with reality. IMHO.

 

[WriterDom]

Re: PEEPEE

Sales Tax for one,

We agree!!!!!!!!

A national sales tax is the easiest, fairest way to collect taxes.
The more you spend, the more taxes you pay. And yes, if you are under a cetain income level, you are tax exempt.

Toss out all the loopholes, deductions, and mystery surrounding taxes. No one can cheat. No one can fail to report. Everyone pays.

It will never happen. Why?

.

Why? because it would be the death of the democratic party. Their goal, and they've almost reached it, is to have 51% of the people dependent on the government, and paying no taxes at all, if fact, getting a refund check in the mail every year on money they didn't pay in.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: PEEPEE

Their goal, and they've almost reached it, is to have 51% of the people dependent on the government, and paying no taxes at all...

Bollocks!

I can't agree with that. And neither could any responsible Governemnt.

Just a nice piece of disinformation WriterDom...

Unless you can show me it's a declared Democratic policy...

 

[miles]

ppman

That proves how little you know about the US - zero.

If the govt increases your benefits every year, are you going to vote against a promise to reduce them?

 

[miles]

PS - we are rapidly approaching a time where a MINORITY of Americans pay the overwhelming majority of income tax.

For those of you who disbelieve, look up the IRS statistics on the top to bottom % of wagearners and what percentage of taxes they pay.

I know, it's work to look it up and much more fun and easier to yell tax the rich.

 

[brotherbig1984]

the real solution is....

Universal health care- provided by the government. Yes, taxes will go up, but who cares? The current system sucks, the HMO's grow rich by denying coverage, and the rich will always have their private doctors and hospitals. You see, it's the middle class and the poor who end up paying through the nose for health care, and getting screwed over anyways.

www.gp-us.org
www.greenparty.org

It's time for a change. Take control away from the corporate controlled parties!