Having to choose

[*Eve*]

This is a hard topic for me to talk about because it hurts to think about it sometimes. I thought I would confide in my literotica family to get some opinions and talk to any one who is in a similar situation.
First off, to give you a little background info, I am a 23 year old black female. I have always been extremely close to my family and I have always thought that without your family you have no one. Well, ever since I can remember I have been attracted to men of all races...(I think you can see where this is headed)
Anyway, my last boyfriend was white and I was with him for quite a while but that ended and that's when the truth came out. Not only were my parents glad that the relationship ended but their opinions about dating someone outside of my race became quite clear. The problem is, I have started seeing someone who is also white, and I care about him a great deal. I guess you can even say that I'm in love. I haven't been with him that long, only a few months but we have known each other for a long time and have been friends for years which is probably why we're so close now. Anyway, My parents have "put their foot down" as far as me dating guys that feel are "inappropriate". I am not to bring my "friends" around anymore to their home.
They never said that I'd be out of the family, just that if I were to choose to marry him, or any other non black man, they would not accept it.
Now, I feel as if I'm being torn in two, because, I love them so much and I can't believe that they feel the way they do because they never raised me to be prejudiced. I love this guy and I don't want to walk away from that, but is it really worth going though this with my family. I'm sure that I could be just as happy with any black man of course but I'm happy with who I'm with right now.
Perhaps this situation seems cut and dry to some of you but to actually be dealing with it is quite a different story. I guess advice would be appreciated.

 

[Earthgoddess]

well eve I am white and my younger sister has always dated black men...she is now married and has two wonderful children-and I will admit that she went thru hell...My family is old school prep-WASP, there were threats of being dis-owned-huge fights...it was really terrible. I kept saying that we needed to let her find what made her happy-so eventually it all worked out...but it was a huge struggle for them both...His mother still hates my sister and actually prefers her "black"looking grandson to my niece who resembles my mom...just be aware that no one else can live your life but all decisions have costs...think this through and make sure you are prepared to deal with the outcome...Take care of yourself...good luck.

 

[Xander]

I don't know what to tell you *Eve*.

Being of asian origin myself, I have definately been with girls, whose family thought it was inapropriate for me to be with their "white" daughter. To be perfectly honest it's actually very rare that I've met a girls family and been accepted.
I'm okay as a friend. But as a boyfriend...big no no.

I've never understood that. And I proberly never will.

I have never had that problem with my own family, so I've never been in a situation like yours.
But I will never the less, give you one of my hard earned advises.

Go where your heart tells you to go.

This is by no means an easy task. But I hope it'll work out for you *Eve*.

 

[Guest]

Hi, Eve,

That's such a huge decision you've got to make that - totally life-changing. At the end of the day you've got to decide for yourself what's best for you.

Have you been able to talk to your parents about why they feel this way? Is it 'cause of the way they themselves were brought up, or is it more that they're worried about what the neighbours are saying? If you can get them to talk about that they might realise how unreasonable they're being.

Is there anyone in the family - sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles or whatever - that seem to be on your side in the argument? Maybe it'd help if someone else took them aside and spoke to them about it.

Is it totally final their decision, or do you think there's any way they might change their attitude if they knew just how unhappy they were making you?

I hope it all works out well for you, whatever you decide.

roger

 

[CreamyLady]

Eve, you are the same age as my daughter, and I will give you the same advice I gave her: Whatever makes you happy, what feels right to you, is what you should do.

Much as your parents love you (and I'm sure they do), they cannot live your life for you, or make all your decisions for you, or even dictate policy forever.

The separation rituals in adolescence aren't anything to the moments in adulthood when we realize that we -- ourselves -- are going against our parents. It may or may not work out, but the decision is entirely yours -- and you will be much happier if it is based on your own feelings and wishes, and no one else's.

 

[Golden]

wow, this is no fun for you at all dear *Eve*. I dated a black girl for a while when I was 18 - but that's was a looong time ago... my parents treated her just as they did any other girlfriend, except for the once-only comment "of course you won't consider marrying her will you" ...
I did my best to make my parents challenge their own prejudice and I think that's what you have to try and do. In fact it ought to be easier to get black parents - who must see racism all the time - to understand that their own racism is one of the barriers to that real equality - social, political, economic, work place etc - which all of us "liberals" seek. Indeed it disappoints such liberals that the blacks for whom they seek justice are sometiomes as prejudiced as the white system they are fighting ... oh well.
Personally, I think the mixed race kids I see every day in my part of London are the most beautiful boys and girls on the block.

sorry , all this is no help really - but I agree with all the above - you gotta be true to your feelings - not to those of others; You will have to work hard with the family members to bring them round but if you truly love each other as a family you have the strength to do this. Talk to family friends and neighbours and enrol their support if you can. You go girl!!

 

[Guest]

Eve,
Sorry to hear about your dilemma. It's hard to hear that this is still a problem. I have no solution other than you have to make the tough decision based on how much you care for this guy. If your family members are good people they will support you in whatever decision you make. Let it be known that if you marry someone other than your skin pigment (I hate to say race because we all belong to the human race) you will struggle with ignorant people. I have a cousin who is married to a great guy who happens to be black. They have struggled with racism but have held it together.

 

[Felix]

I have not had to deal with such extreme situations, but I know that a similar schism presented enormous difficulty for my parents during their courtship. In their case, the issue was religion, but the effect was equally corrosive.

Many times, my mother broke off their relationship (and even engagement) due solely to pressure from her family; my father's family was no better, but he paid less attention to them. Ultimately, I think that it was only my father's unshakeable, almost preternatural conviction that he had found his life partner that enabled them to stay together -- if he had had the slightest doubt, I would not be here today.

As it was, they were bitterly estranged from their families for many years -- to the point that my father's family were not at the wedding, and my mother's father did not decide to attend his favorite daughter's wedding until moments before it started. Things have improved somewhat over the years, but even now I occasionally learn for the first time the explanations for past slights (including ones that I had not even realized when they occurred). It is also difficult to overlook things such as having the different sides of the "family" actively trying to convince young children that the "other" parent was evil. On a personal note, I found earthgoddess' point about favored grandchildren interesting, because my mother's family had a strong aversion to me simply because I reminded them strongly of my father (while somehow finding my sister more acceptable); if his family favored me for the same reason, it was no more healthy.

My parents were indeed the perfect match, and would not have changed anything they did. Even so, when they would tell us stories of how they had fought (both others and each other) to stay together, my sister's response was always, "I can't believe you did that. I would never have put up with all the grief." For better of worse, I probably have too much of my father in me to give up if put in similar circumstances. Even so, I can well understand that for some people it would simply be too much to walk away from the families of their birth to make the families of their hearts.

The is a double irony here. First of all, my parents were not even religious to begin with, and their families not much more so -- this was simply a clash of cultures, or of fears.

Second, my girlfriend and I are facing the tiniest portion of the same pressure ourselves. Again, neither she nor I are religious, but her family is, and to them I would be the wrong faith even if I had one. I think that after some delicate times we are to the point of genuine comity, but I know that when issues such as weddings and children arise, their fears will again demand refutation. Personally, I am aggressively uninterested in their prejudices, but I know that my girlfriend will still have to pay a price to live her life as she chooses.

I have known several people who have had multi-year relationships vanish in a flash when one set of parents back in the tradition-bound "old country" would either lay down the law or worse yet, say nothing but have their silent but emphatic reproach utterly overwhelm their children's own feelings. I find their situation utterly alien -- I literally cannot conceive of being so dependent on the will of others, even parents -- but I see the pernicious effects time and again. Then again, I have little understanding of and no sympathy for people who conduct long-term relationships, only to end them saying,"Oh, of course we could never marry because you are X and I am Y." I realize that not every healthy relationship leads to marriage, but the disrespect and dishonesty implicit in such an act is makes me physically ill.

My only advice is that while you can try to educate your family (and, often, your friends), the sad reality is that you have to be prepared to leave behind your old life to start a new one. You may be able to reclaim a portion of it at some point (and indeed, the very shock of your willingness to leave may straighten out some people), but it is foolish not to to acknowledge the potential cost of your actions.

This is particularly difficult in situations such as yours, Eve, because you do not yet know if the relationship is worth the price. For some people, the principle alone would compel them; for others, only the adamantine determination of true love would give them the strength to act. I could tell you how I would react and what I would do, but only you can decide if the prize is worth the cost.

Good luck.

Felix

P.S. There is another aspect to this situation. Some might think it unfair, but it may be worth consideration.

It may well be that you will have to struggle to gain your family's acceptance -- struggle in vain, perhaps, and to your great sorrow.

On the other hand, if not for open-minded people such as you, how can we expect the world to change? If you, loved by your family and sharing the love of another, cannot breach the walls of ignorance and fear, how then can we expect bigots with lesser motivations ever to evolve? I realize that the fate of humanity is not on your shoulders, but there are times in which we find ourselves confronted with an opportunity to decide the type of world in which we would like to live; and by our choices, we share in its creation. It would be a shame to stay in a relationship to prove a point, and there is a real potential for winding up that way even if your intentions are quite different. Then again, have you never felt the sting of unjust discrimination? How can you complain if you now avert your eyes from the iniquity before you?

I understand that one cannot fight every battle; by the same token, it is difficult to win the war never having taken the field. We do what we can, not what we should, and allow ourselves our humanity.

[This message has been edited by felix (edited 06-06-2000).]

 

[Shylady]

Eve
I have a daughter that is 16 and all my life i have thought i was not predjudice then suddenly a young black man showed interest in her. wow was i shocked at what was really in my heart. But you know it wasn't all because he was black but also what she would have to go thru in our family and also the town we live in.Now i didn't tell her she couldn't date him and i wouldn't have turned my back on her, but to be honest i have to admit i was relieved she chose not to date him. I am not sure what this makes me except a concerned mom, because i know couples that are mixed races and i have no problem with it.
Also the young man has stayed friends with us as a family and i think he is a very nice guy so maybe i am predjuiced, but i hope not.

 

[Skibum]

Eve, I am in a mixed race marriage (my wife is Asian), and it has lasted over 20 years. We are very happy. My family was less than thrilled, but now they have come to love her and accept her as part of the family. It is not always easy, especially at first. You have to give people time to get used to change, especially if they are people you love. Good luck.

 

[Svedish_Chef]

I alway have the same problem it seems... I assume that everyone is the same as me
White bout 20 etc, so I get surprised all the time... those things said my tastes are not really that varied. If people are outside my race they have to be fairly damn attractive, (same for whites if I think bout it)... I'm open.

Eve yours comes simply to what I think is: Have both just keep you family and your BF apart for as long as possible till either you can make the choice or time can heal the various wounds...

Da chef (Hope you find what you are after)

 

[MADDOG]

My personal opinion, is that Love is a hard enough thing to find without people putting their own condions on who you should be with. If you love a white man, tell your family that nothing they say is going to change the way you feel. If they love you, (and I'm sure they do), they will either accept it or keep they're mouths shut. I beleive that in time, if this man is as good as you believe his is, they will learn to love him just as much as you do.

MADDOG

 

[John1965]

Well there are some really nice BS comments on here but I think the only honest one was Shylady. Your parents are racist and will not change. If you date (and I hope you do) and or Marry this guy your parents will either never allow him in the house or will put on an act secretly hoping that the relationship goes down in flames. I've seen it so many times.

 

[ShyGoddess]

Dear Eve,
I come from a very small town. In fact there is not one other race besides white here. I could never understand all the hate the guys in my high school felt for others who were different. It's hard to face opposion, especially from your parents, but I know you have the courage to face it and find out what is right for you. Whether your parents like it or not, you are your own person. They cannot live your life for you, and cannot decided what is best for you. Only you can do that. So, after all that, let me leave you with this. Look deep into your heart, whatever you find there, let it be your guide. Good Luck dearest Eve. You are in my prayers.

Shy

 

[Deborah]

Hi Eve! Well, you got plenty of advice here so I won't give you any, other than ignore John here. I just expressed my thoughts regarding him to him on another thread.

I will share a few observations of my own. My best girlfriend is Native American. A few years back she put her foot down with her parents and told them flat out the men in her life were not subject to parental approval. That ended that. And it did not harm her relationship with them. She has dated just about every "color" of man but red!

Two friends of mine I went to college with got married shortly after graduation. Pam is black and a Baptist. Larry is white and a Catholic and has one brother who is a priest. Well, let me tell you, this was one of the strangest weddings and receptions I had ever been to. Needless to say the families were quite against the marriage. Larry's father (his mother is deceased) refused to attend the wedding.

Well, now, some years later they are still married, have two beautiful children and the families have totally accepted the marriage.

I guess what I'm saying, Eve, if that something permanent does happen with you and your guy, your parents will probably come around, sooner or later. Especially if they see that you are happy and it is what you want.

 

[Earthgoddess]

Eve I also wanted to sya please look into inter-racial support groups my sister cruises the web alot and said that there are tons out there...I think it helped them when the pressure from the families grew too heavy..best of luck...I can try to research the groups for you, let me know...Also I am going through a similiar situation, my mother-in-law hates me because I am me, so it just goes to show that people can store hatred in all kinds of containers...your parents love you and if you continue to present them with your decsions in a mature way i am sure that eventually they will treat you like an adult, and respect the decisions you have made-arguements take two or more people...follow your heart and keep the lines of communication open.

 

[ShyGuy68]

Originally posted by ShyGoddess:
Look deep into your heart, whatever you find there, let it be your guide.

Dear Eve

My words excatly!! I wish you the best of luck!

ShyGuy




[This message has been edited by ShyGuy68 (edited 06-07-2000).]

 

[Felix]

Despite the rather grim tone of my initial post, I am actually quite encouraged by many of the other posts on this thread.

My point about acknowledging the potential cost remains a valid one, I think, but there is much to be said for approaching the situation in a constructive fashion. Not every disagreement has to lead to Ragnarok, and people always have the potential to grow.

It may well be that if you can be firm, steadfast, and nonconfrontational about the issue while living the life of your choosing, your friends and family eventually will be able to learn from your experience and begin to change. Maintaining the requisite level of calm across such difficult emotional terrain is certainly a challenge, but in the end doing so may benefit you more than it does your family. The fewer bridges you burn reaching your goal, the fewer you will need to rebuild or live without.

To put that in more concrete terms, let me give an example.

You tell your parents that care a great deal for your boyfriend, that his presence in your life is important, and that you desire his company at social and family events. If they say that he is not welcome in their home, then you can respond by saying that you are disappointed by their action but recognize that doing so is their prerogative; you can continue by saying that as a result, you will not be attending events there until such time as they are able to support you in your life choices. You might express a hope that you will find ways to stay involved with each other's lives -- you still love them as your parents, and presumably they you as their child -- but that this particular topic is closed until their attitudes change. There is no need for shouting or tears about what is actually a very basic cause and effect relationship. There really isn't even a reason to argue, because neither side is ready to change.

If you can pull all that off in a cool and collected fashion, you are a better person than I. Still, in this may be the seeds of a constructive strategy: establish the principles but sidestep the arguments.

 

[Guest]

How are things going, *Eve*?

 

[Breastman]

Dear Eve,
I come from a country where we have a Chinese majority. My race is part of the minority, just like Blacks in US. And as such it is rare to find my race in top corporate postions here and we have been stereotyped as dirty, lazy, ugly, and .....

I have had the same problem with dating Chinese girls who say beyond the racial factor and was willing to love me for what I was but family is another factor altogether.

Once the family interferes, the relationship ends. I'm married now and never regretted marrying someone from my own race as looking at my kids now, I'd rather they be part of the minority race than someone in-between. Even though they are innocent, they sometimes become victims of coming from a mixed background, "so your mother is black huh?" - sounds familiar.

No matter how strong you feel your love to one another is today, these feelings go away after just 2 years and you live to feel the agony of hatred from the in-laws and your family as they disapprove, until you get a divorce - then they say "I Told You So".

My advice : learn to love someone from your own race as where inter-racial marriages are concerned, you will suffer long term.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Damn you make me feel old Eve. I have a daughter who just went to the prom with the only black (I hate these qualifiers that seperate us) in her class. All the kids at school love him and his sister, he is a really great kid. No big deal but Gramp Pa hit the ceiling (he's from south carolina originally). None of the good things about her date matters to Gramp Pa who refuses to see past the color of his skin. The argument that we(everyone)are all mixed blood does nothing to change his mind except that I have to listen to him rant for several hours. My point is this, some of the people out there will never change and no amount of facts, arguments or common sense will help. You can accept them with their beliefs, try and work around the differences, and keep them in your life or leave them out hoping that one day they can come to grips with what is and what they wish was.

I will give you the advice I give my own girls. Find someone you love who is good to you and good for you. Someone who will be your best friend and walk beside you even when the path of life winds through really rough country.

Your parents have a legitimate concern that marriage is tough enough without adding extra problems. Marriages of mixed races or mixed cultures have extra problems or stress both from within the family and from outside the family.

Your parents are just concerned for you and are trying to get you to walk a path that they feel comfortable with. One that they think is safer, better, or at least more familiar to them. I would say that you should respect their wish and not bring the young man to their house but don't hide or be ashamed of the fact that you are seriously dating him. Invite them to your house or take them out to lunch to have a meeting with your sweetie when the time is right. Once you are serious about getting married, I think they will have a change of heart. Do you really think that your Mom is going to let her baby get married without helping to set it up? Or that your Dad would let any boy take his little girl without having that "Talk". They just love you and with you showing signs of settling down and maybe getting married they have turned on the heat. Don't force the issues till you are sure of yourself and your heart.

I love this guy and I don't want to walk away from that, but is it really worth going though this with my family. I'm sure that I could be just as happy with any black man of course but I'm happy with who I'm with right now.

Well since you can be happy with anyone be sure he is rich, handsome, has a college degree, drives a red vintage vet, that your parents love him, that he is hung and can go all night but won't do it with anyone but you. I really do understand what you are trying to say but it makes as much sense as someone saying they can love a rich man as easy as a poor one. Once you are really in love it will make no difference rich, poor, black, white, hell they may even be a thief on the run, your heart doesn't have to use your brain.

For now I suggest that you meet your parents halfway but thay have to know that you are a grown woman and will have to make your own decisions on some things even if there is a chance that it will turn out wrong.

Things will work out just relax and be honest with yourself and your family.

 

[*Eve*]

I just want to say thank you to everyone who took the time to post a reply or send me an email. I really appreciate the advice that I have been given and I pretty much know in my heart that only I can make me happy but I guess it's just hard to be involved with someone that your parents don't approve of.
I have had a talk with my parents since the first post that I've sent and they understand how I feel, but unfortunately are standing firm in their opinion and ultimatium. Maybe they believe that eventually I will "come to my senses" I guess to give you a little background information, my mom grew up in the south and my dad in an inner city, and they both have had bad experiences with white people, and they can only see me getting hurt. I understand where they are coming from sort of but it's still a frustrating situation, anyway, I will keep you all updated, and thanks again all.