Have you ever had this problem?

[BardsLady]

I dont know how many of you run into this problem. It's giving up the story to an editor.

Heh, I'm kind of possesive about my stuff and sometimes it's like having to peel my skin off to let go of it. I dont know. It's kind of hard to just let go.

I guess I'm a tad bit gunshy when it comes to something like that. I diddnt have a printer one time and I handed a poem to a friend to look over for spelling errors before printing it out and she changed the words around and submitted it to a poetry website under my name, yet the context was all skewed.

Which is why I said I was gunshy about letting an editor look at my work. hehehe

But I guess what I'm asking is, Does anyone else have this problem? If so, how does one go about taming it?

BardsLady

 

[Lauren Hynde]

By giving your work to an editor doesn't mean you'll have to go through with all or any suggestions he or she may have. It's your story/poem and you're not only always free to do whatever you want with it, but you're the only one who can do it.

The point of having an editor is to have someone else helping you fine-tune a piece of writing, not to bind you to another person's opinion.

My advice when you're about to "let go" and "give up" your story to an editor is: don't. You're really just letting (or asking, paying, whatever ) someone look at it to help you...

Be confident. You have the final word. Every editor knows that.

 

[Why]

An editor, should work with the writer on the final draft, checking grammar and making suggestions as to flow, pace, narrative etc

An editor should not alter anything other than the odd blip without out first discussing it with the author.(If mine did he would be walking funny for a week or more.)

It is not an editor's place to alter the contents of the story, but to guide the writer by pointing out places in the text for improvment.

 

[BardsLady]

Problems...

Heh. My brain knows this, I keep telling it that. by it's the heart that gives me most of my problems.

Can you two check out Nightlife with Kiefer and see if it sounds right. I know one person said it was choppy. I'm thinking it's the flow through with the in between scenes thing. I dont know.

BardsLady
Who wants to write Just One Book so she can be immortal

 

[jon.hayworth]

No Bardslady it is not with handing my work to my editor that I get that queasy feeling.

I get that feeling when I submit my work for publication, will it be accepted or earn no more than a pro-forma rejection slip. I think during that nail-biting period I am as nervous, if not more jumpy than I was whilst waiting for my son to be born.

For the record IMHO it is an insult to editors to call your friend who bowdlerised your poem an editor.

Get yourself a good editor, develop a relationship with them, and you will start to enjoy that process.

jon

By the way would you take a look at the paragraphs thread - the more people who contribute the greater the help it will be to other writers and editors.

 

[Guest]

what he said

Bardslady-

I'm with Jon. There is a huge difference between what happened with your poem and what true editing is about.

When you find an editor that hears your voice and reinforces it rather than squashing it you have a true treasure.

As in any good relationship, communication is the key. It is so important to tell the editor what you are expeciting. Are you looking for a copy editor to just clean things up? Are you looking for a conceptual and continuity editor?

Perhaps if you seek out someone who can communicate clearly to you what they think your expectations are you will feel more comfortable.

b

 

[BardsLady]

To Be Honest?

I have no idea exactly what I'm looking for at the moment. All I know is that I have a muse that wont turn me loose when I'm writing my stories.

Nightlife with Kiefer was my very first short story... ever. I've had a lot of people ask for more. Which I'm working on as we speak.

So I'm still a, pardon the pun, virgin at the writing game. I hope I'm getting off on the right foot. I'm glad, at least, there is this place that i can go to ask questions and get answers. Otherwise my stories would still be locked up on my computer, gathering virtual cobwebs. Thanks for giving me input.

BardsLady

 

[pop_54]

Hmmmmmm!!!!!!

Can't add much love, Jon and Bridget have said it all, if you think you need an editor you must try to find one who listens to you as well as advises.
Advises being the operative word, your friend who took your poem and chopped it about was probably less able to edit the piece properly than you yourself would have been, they in fact just took your poem and altered it to suit their tastes, not edited it.

Why do you need an editor?? Are you being overly self critical about your work when you read it back to yourself, why not just go with your gut feeling and post it and be damned.
It's your story, you've written it the way it suits you, the way you wanted it to sound and feel.

I'm no author in reality, I'm an engineer by trade so my adice is probably useless really, but *MS word spell check* is the only editor I ever use before posting a tale.

pops..........

 

[Chicklet]

I have that problem

When someone takes something I've written and suggests that I word something differently, that I take out certain words, that I've used grammar wrong or put the wrong word in a place...it really bothers me.

I'm like, hey, that's what *I* chose to do, that's how *my* story was s'posed to be...but then I'm thinking to myself "why did I ask someone to help me if I wanted it that way in the first place?"

being so possesive of my stories might be silly, but it's still there. It's hard to put your feelings about your story aside and look at it from a broader pov.

As for your poem being moved around by your friend...that seems wrong to me. You should have discussed it with him/her before he/she did that to your work.

-Chicklet

 

[MathGirl]

When someone takes something I've written and suggests that I word something differently, that I take out certain words, that I've used grammar wrong or put the wrong word in a place...it really bothers me.

I'm like, hey, that's what *I* chose to do, that's how *my* story was s'posed to be...but then I'm thinking to myself "why did I ask someone to help me if I wanted it that way in the first place?"

That's how I feel when I'm asked to edit something. Outside of obvious mistakes in grammar or spelling, who am I to tell someone how to write? I've accepted the task on a few occasions, but I always feel helpless.

I don't do editing any more for that reason. I'm no good at it.
MG

 

[Rainbow Skin]

An editor, to be worthwhile, must understand and appreciate what you're trying to do. Not just 'it would be better if it read like this', but 'what you're trying to achieve would be improved if you did it like this'.

 

[Chicklet]

An editor, to be worthwhile, must understand and appreciate what you're trying to do. Not just 'it would be better if it read like this', but 'what you're trying to achieve would be improved if you did it like this'.

...

will you be my editor? (said as though "would you be my mommy?")

 

[gauchecritic]

I hope this wasn't Chicklet I'm going to tell you about now, although I really can't remember who it was.

In the Story Feedback Forum ( a really good place to go for advice by the way) someone asked for a critique. I wrote one and mailed it and then the author mailed me back delineating objections to almost each and every one of my suggestions/comments and I sat there thinking "So why did you ask?"

Personally I will ask only particular questions or generalities about any of my stories of anyone.

What do people think of dialogue; too much, too little etc.

Is this female character I've written really female or just male called she?

You will find opposing views, didactic lectures and sensitive suggestions about any and all questions.

Ask one single person for their view on your writing and you will almost always get a coloured reply. Coloured by taste, sexual preference and style Nazis.

(Ooh look I just unconsciously linked the 60's term for ethnic groups with the word Nazi, thereby delineating my age, cultural outlook and some of my thought processes. Delving further you may interpret from this an Eastern European heritage, a complex social make-up and further still from this paragraph itself, a too-subtle sense of humour and an ability to hold readers attention over 2 sentences of drivel. Am I clever or what?)

The above is an example of what anyone can make of a single sentence by reading between the lines. Yeah

I'm with Pops (my dad) and Chickie (sp) on this one. It's my story and it's really very good just the way it is.

Gauche

 

[Rainbow Skin]

...

will you be my editor? (said as though "would you be my mommy?")

Oh Chiquitita, I thought you'd never ask. I'll be your anything.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Do you guys consider that looking for an editor is a sign of weekness or lack of confidence in one's abilities?

 

[gauchecritic]

Do you guys consider that looking for an editor is a sign of weekness or lack of confidence in one's abilities?

Only in the same way that NOT looking for editors is a sign of weakness and lack of confidence.

And in my case being

Gauche

 

[Guest]

hurts so good

Gauche, Karma Dog and Rumple Foreskin are wonderfully brutal when it comes to feedback on a story. Their understanding of the writing craft is very helpful. A

After you reattach your limbs, you can implement many of their suggestions for the betterment of your story.

But we all must remember that erotic is in the hand.. I mean eye of the beholder. When you ask for feedback consider the preferences of the prospective editor.

That is not to say that I haven't edited stories in genres that I didn't care for. In fact, I have edited stories in genres that are offensive to me. It is just much harder for me to give any feedback on the tone or progress of those stories.

I have also been guilty of asking for feedback on stories of mine that have zero appeal to the reader. Word to the wise: don't be traumatized by that feedback.

b

 

[Guest]

I can always improve.

Do you guys consider that looking for an editor is a sign of weekness or lack of confidence in one's abilities?

Absolutely not.

I think it is an acknowledgement of one's own limitations and that one writes for others to read.

b

 

[Guest]

Do you guys consider that looking for an editor is a sign of weekness or lack of confidence in one's abilities?

No, not at all. I think because I've had some good ones in the past, just not lately.

I had an editor for a 250+ page work who recommended lots of paras to delete or switch around, some major stuff. The way she explained it to me I understood her reasoning very well and did everything she suggested. The finished product is at 200 pp and I love it. Priceless.

Perdita

 

[KillerMuffin]

I've had good editors and bad editors. Each time, I've made it pretty clear (I hoped) as to what I was looking for. One editor rewrote my story and then gave it back to me. My voice was gone and I had to sit with two copies to figure out what she did. I eventually just pitched her copy and submitted my original. I've also been lucky enough to have a very good one look over my Gay Male story. I wanted to know if the male characters were effective and if I'd got the logistics right. He returned the story to me a bit later (I'm never in any hurry for it anyway), and I was able to make corrections myself. I didn't take all of his suggestions, but I was able to vastly improve the story through his help. I'm not giving up his name, but he was fabulous.

I would never, by the way, let a close friend or family memeber do serious editing on my story unless we had previous established a working relationship that way. I have one of those, as well, and she's great, too.

 

[jfinn]

I have editors, both excellent writers themselves. One for my mm series and one for my straight series. The first is actually an editor in real life, the second should be. Both of them edit for grammer and content and both can be brutal. They'll argue, push, tell me I'm dead wrong and mark up my mss like it's bleeding ink.

I love it. It's why I send them my stories in the first place. I value their opinions or I wouldn't use them. When they tell me something doesn't work, or that another place might be better if I did this... I really think about what they're saying.

Then I make up my own mind. My stories, my decision. If they've directed me to a way to make it stronger than great, hurrah, I'm there with it. But sometimes. no matter how eloquently they lobby for something, it just doesn't feel right to me. When that happens I thank them very much and do whatever I damn well please. And like the good and wise men they both are, they back off quickly.

However I decide though, I never take it personally. My feeling is that if they didn't like my story they wouldn't be editing it in the first place. (They both offered their services unsolicited.) I've never gotten any negative vibes from them either when I've discarded their suggestions, though truthfully their feelings aren't really part of my concern when I'm going through the decision process. Like I said, my story my rules.

I also edit for a fair number of authors. I'm not too strong on grammer or spelling so basically I'm there for content, more a beta reader than an editor, I guess. That's what they want too, so we have very few problems.

So I'll do a spell check and maybe reformat to make the readibility better, but mostly I critique what's going on and does it make sense to me. That's the operative phrase, does it make sense? That's my main concern, not the story itself.

If I see something that doesn't ring true, that pulls me out of the story and gets me wondering how he/she came up with it, that's when I'll comment. I edit on Word where they have that handy comment box thing so I can add in my thoughts and have them pop up when they're rereading without disturbing the text. Except for the grammer basics, I rarely if ever rewrite in the body of the story. Instead I might suggest a line as part of my comment. That way I feel like I'm not stepping on their creativity and also it isn't as threatening as actually changing a line or paragraph. Nobody's ever stopped talking to me after they read my little love notes, so I guess it's okay with them too.

The whole thing about editing to me though boils down to trust. Do you trust this person to take care of your baby? If you don't then I'd suggest finding someone you do feel that way about. Editing is such a valuable tool, but only if you can work with the person that's doing it.

Jayne

 

[Weird Harold]

The way she explained it to me I understood her reasoning very well and did everything she suggested.

Your editor sounds just about perfect to me. If an editor can't explain why a change, other than correcting a typo, needs to be made, then you need a different editor.

KM's problem with an editor that completely rewrote her story in such a way that the changes couldn't be found is an exmple of what an editor should NOT be -- a co-author.

I choose to use editors and proofreaders because I realize that what I write is not always what I want to say. I need another set of eyes to find stupid mistakes my fingers made and my eyes refuse to see. I need a reader's opinion to find out if what I wrote gets the message I intended to across to the reader.

A good editor will tell you, "I'm not sure what you're trying to say here," or "this sentence is too long, awkward and hard to read," and suggest ways of correcting the problems.

A good editor will point out "continuity errors" -- "Didn't he put that milk back in the Fridge a page or two back?"

Most importantly, a Good editor will not make any change that you can't find and undo if you disagree with it or see an even better way to correct the problem.

(MS Word has a file compare function that can find and undo changes you don't like, BTW -- a very useful tool with some marginl editors.)

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Well, thank you all for re-establishing my faith in authors.

I'm pretty sure there's no one more self-assured and confident on his own work than me. I can't help it if I'm a fucking genius ; everything I submit for publication is revised to exhaustion, every little detail is carefully studied and deliberate. Even so, I wouldn't dream of not going over it yet again with an editor I can trust. Or even several of them at the same time.

I do it because I know my limitations. I need an editor for when I write in English, which isn't my mother tongue, because I can't be certain I'm not slipping up here and there and I won't settle for anything less than perfect.

I need an editor because I know that no matter what I or anyone else writes, it can always be improved, and only when you can't find any way to do it is a work ready. (Of course you usually can't find anything else to improve because there's a thin line between exhaustion and satisfaction.)

Even if I end up rejecting a particular editor's suggestions, it is still worth it, because they always force me to be aware of my every choice. If this editor tells me something doesn't work for him/her, I may incorporate their suggestions or not, but at least I know other readers might think the same.

When I edit for others, I am as thorough, honest and ruthless as I expect others to be. I never change a word in the original text unless it's to correct typos and even those I signal. I don't correct grammatical inaccuracies, but I always point them out, be it in phrasal structure or mere punctuation and explain why. I usually don't rewrite, even in a side note, unless I'm confident that I can keep true to the author's voice, but I point out certain passages that do require a rewrite and explain why. I keep a very alert eye out for continuity mistakes and elements that just don't add up. I offer suggestions concerning content: what makes sense and what doesn't and why, what adds to the story and what distracts from it and why. I'm attentive to the writing style, if it suits the piece, if it's confident, if it's coherent.

 

[BardsLady]

Insecurities.

I dont know if I need an editor or not. For me, starting this thread is to get the pros and cons of editors.

This next story I'm writing is getting kind of interesting. What I'm doing is writing for a few hours straight then save the file and walk away. The next day, I come back and read it over slowly. As I read, I add or change things around until it comes out looking *to me at least* more of a good story.

As to getting close relatives to read/edit the story, I sent my Mom a copy of my first story via E-Mail.. heheh OR part of it. The story cut off just before a really good erotic part.

An hour later, I'm getting an E-Mail from my mom, "You Bitch! Send me more, damn you! More!" hehehe I trust my Mom to read and offer suggestions. I think I'm doing okay when I can send my Mom to a cold shower with just a few words.

Anyways, I love the way the conversation is going. Thoughts and observances are always welcom,

BardsLady

 

[jon.hayworth]

In an earlier post I talked about the relationship based upon trust a writer needs to have with his / her editor.

At one time I did not believe I needed an editor, now when I look back at that work I cringe. It is full of typo's that I missed, poor punctuation, and worst of all convuluted sentences that say what I intended in a manner which working with an editor would have been simplified.

Now the only thing I post unedited, are posts like this one. Find a good editor and you will know he /she is worth her weight in gold. There are a couple of old sayings that have some bearing on the subject: "Two heads are better than one": and a paralel might be drawn with this statement "A man who is his own lawyer, is a lawyer with a fool as a client."

In another thread people have talked about the unconscious habit of "block reading" - when we read our own work, which we know, the impulse to do so is even stronger than when reading a piece we do not know.

Try working with an editor, then decide whether or not you need one.

jon