Harsh, honest feedback, sought.

[ellynei]

I wasn't planning to ask for feedback on this one, because I wrote it in one sitting, self-edited in one sitting, so basically there was no real effort involved in the creation of it.

When done I thought, 'The beginning isn't catchy.' But, then I went, 'To heck with it. It makes me smile and it feels right.'

Then I thought, 'The build before the intimacy is long and the interactions is probably too subtle for most readers to find it interesting.' But then I went, yeah, you got it, 'To heck...'


It's not the first time I put a story on expecting it to get less attention than my other babies, but the previous time I was right.


In 3 days 'Amateur Model' : What money and an old man made her do.

got 114 votes and 20,5k views.

I post in non-con/reluct, I'm not used to vote numbers above 100... I always thought it had something to do with the genre. It's non-con/reluct, so it was at bottom of New list, as it should be.

Oh, here I go yappering away.



Short story: The voting on this story pretty much goes (5, 5, 3, 5, 5, 3) rating 4,30. But, I haven't received any negative comments or feedback on it. (And I don't think I have adopted steady trolls yet.)

So!

I'd really like to know what is wrong with it (for one in 3 voters). Please be brutal and honest. As you can probably tell from the previous yappering, I've built some basic self-esteem regarding my writing by now and am ready for a beating. Ready to have my flaws pointed out with a magnifying glass so I can learn and improve.

I would very much appreciate it

 

[ellynei]

oops forgot the link

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=397439

 

[Guest]

There's not one bloody thing wrong with your story, except that it's too short!



I know that's not particularly helpful as a critique, but I find no flaws in the overall writing, the pacing, the characterization, or the plot. I did find the authorial voice in the beginning to be a trifle off-putting, where you declined to discuss her financial circumstances, but readers who were very turned-off by that wouldn't have finished the story or bothered to vote.

Perhaps you've simply come across the fact that not everyone will like every story. Or perhaps the "3" voters were disappointed that the story didn't go further.

Excellent job.

 

[ellynei]

Thanks GnomeDePlume for taking the time to read and feedback here. It is really sweet of you.

I wish you had found more trouble than the narrating-style at start though, I sort of already knew that start was a gamble, but it just felt too right to alter.

Ah, I'm sorta speechless now. Don't tell me I've grown past the point where requesting general advice on feedback forum can no longer help.

There must be more, easy to see, blunders, left in my general style.

Have to be.

Simply have to be.

 

[ellynei]

There has to be, even.

 

[Guest]

I wish you had found more trouble than the narrating-style at start though, I sort of already knew that start was a gamble, but it just felt too right to alter.

There must be more, easy to see, blunders, left in my general style.

I don't have any appetite for being harsh, but my take is that, yes, there is more for you to conquer with your writing. For me it has to do with getting the language to flow, which either comes naturally (lucky bastards) or through more effort and awareness in the editing of a story. That's the weakness I see — your flow sometimes works really well, and sometimes not. As I read and see this unevenness, I think that you either aren't quite aware of the differences between sentences that work to your advantage (or not), or you don't want to take the trouble to smooth them out in editing. Only you can know the cause — is it more due to awareness of the problems when they arise (we all have or blind spots), or issues with the step that comes afterwards, meaning editing?

I suppose I'm really talking about three things here:
1. Sound, or perhaps it could be called general readability. If you ever listen to books on tape, you can get a wonderful sense of how a sentence, whether narration or dialogue, sounds to the reader's ear. It's great when things just trip along, and we get pulled into events without being jarred by an awkward passage here and there.
2. Clarity. Does the meaning come through? It's important to remember that we don't know what you know about your characters. You don't want to bog us down with unnecessary details, but we need to know what you're indicating, which occasionally falls short.
3. Fullness, or depth. The more we're pulled into the characters' interior selves — what they care about or don't, how they feel about something, etc. — the more we care, too.

I'm going to put forth a couple of examples from fairly early in your story:

*She needed money badly. It does not matter what she needed it for, except to say that she was desperate. This is the story of how she earned that money, not the story of where they went.

I really have no idea what is being referred to with the "where they went". Where what went? The money, the characters, the need? Perhaps it's just a misplaced word — you want an "it" there instead. But this is pretty critical — you're telling us what is and isn't important in your story, and I'm confused.

*The metal gates opened fully. She could have driven in if she had come by car. At the front door waited a well dressed elderly man.

Information is conveyed clearly here, in sequence, but it's chopped up into sentences that don't really roll along. I'm tempted to rewrite the paragraph a few different ways, but perhaps it's better if you do this. It's such a short, simple assemblage of information — manageable, to experiment with and see if you could come up with a much improved means of conveying these same facts. The last sentence, especially, could use some work to give the event — either the man or perhaps Tara's evaluation of the man (which tells us more about her, then) — more depth. There might be a reliance here on a couple of adjectives (well dressed elderly) that you think convey more than they really do. I found that to be the case with the repetition of the word "tacky" — yes, it was used in the advert, but what words would Tara substitute from her own perspective? It came across as a short-cut to me.

Anyway, a brief drive-by with one reader's very nuts-and-bolts perspective. In my experience it's great when a story can pour out relatively quickly — writing is so much fun then, when you can feel the touch of the Muse in a more palpable way. But then, at some point, a patient re-reading of what the Muse brought is called for, and that's the time to appeal to yourself to become the more harsh and demanding critic that you seek.

Or maybe burn some incense in honor of the editing gods? They probably don't get enough praise compared to the Muse.

 

[ellynei]

Sound.

Thanks for pointing it out. I must make sure to practice my pronunciation of english, so I can read loud well enough to hear how smooth it is, or isn't.



Clarity.

Thank you for reminding me that even the pluralis of money is 'it'. It is frightening to be informed there are more examples of such lack of clarity, but it is good for me to know that there is.



Fullness, or depth.

Oh crap I thought this was where my strength lay, not my weakness. I have never before been told I don't pull the reader deep enough into the characters. I have always only been told that this I do right and well.

In this particular story fullness and depth is reached slowly, but I thought I had it covered before it ended I failed then?


I don't understand your referral to tacky and word substitution, though. The word tacky is only ever used at points referring directly back to the advert, never once does Tara or even narrator use the word tacky for anything other than that. Narrator's word choice for the poses when not referring back to advert is: degrading. Tara's same is: humiliating.

Was there too many referrals to the advert? I overplayed the road to gaining full understanding of what that 'tacky' had meant?


Thanks so much for the honest critique. I'm not sure I understood all of it, but I'll do my best to put what I did comprehend to good use

 

[Guest]

Take my quarrel with the use of "tacky" with a grain of salt. I found it a jarring choice of words in the advertisement — I wouldn't really know what is being referred to when someone posts something about "tacky nude modeling", so I was sort of confused by the word from the beginning.

When it appears again as :
The house was too large and magnificent to be a studio belonging to a tacky artist.
and...
'This isn't a tacky studio,' thought Tara
...I'm in the same boat — I know that she's referring to the wording in the advert, but as a reader I'm still unsure of what a "tacky artist" or "tacky studio" might mean. I think it's one of those instances where the word itself suggests images or layers of meaning to you that I don't necessarily share.

Just in case you might be interested in a story that touches on a similar subject (nude modeling), I have a long one (4.82 rating if that means anything) called "Five Classes of Submission" in the Mind-Control section. Link: http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=268240

Continued happy writing and reading!

 

[ellynei]

14 lit pages!!!

 

[ellynei]

I'm suffering severely from nicotine withdrawal right now, can't read 14 lit pages of anything I commence a new activity every 5-15 mins cause of the whole nicotine issue

 

[Guest]

No problem. Just letting you know it's there if you want another take on the artist/model/sex equation sometime.

 

[ellynei]

Would do me good. It is a classic which I intend to approach from several angles in the future

 

[ellynei]

Btw one of the most brilliant varieties on the model take which I have seen so far is this:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=294854

extremely good job by that guy. I wanted to put it on my favourites but my favourites are always full

 

[drsisme]

Visual vs audible processing

You write very well for someone who processes what they are reading visually, as I am sure you are describing what you have seen in your inspiration. While I do not have any examples from this site of someone writing for audible readers, that is partially covered by the 'sound' issue mentioned above.

Being from Denmark, you might need a little more experience with various english veranculars, and how to write them, but you might look into how you can carry the accent into your writing. For instance, the butler has an English accent, but the Mr. Jeffries doesn't. English accents often would drop the 'h' so 'the rabbit hopped' would be written 'the hare opped,' when someone is speaking with a British accent. Similarly 'Parked the car' would be 'pahked deh cah' when someone from Boston is speaking, because they drop the 'r' and soften the 't'.

I cannot reference a specific example right now, but I have read some good books that handled the vernacular of the area being written about, and the various accents protrayed, well. Overall your writing is very good, these are just ideas that might help you become even better.

 

[ellynei]

You write very well for someone who processes what they are reading visually, as I am sure you are describing what you have seen in your inspiration. While I do not have any examples from this site of someone writing for audible readers, that is partially covered by the 'sound' issue mentioned above.

Being from Denmark, you might need a little more experience with various english veranculars, and how to write them, but you might look into how you can carry the accent into your writing. For instance, the butler has an English accent, but the Mr. Jeffries doesn't. English accents often would drop the 'h' so 'the rabbit hopped' would be written 'the hare opped,' when someone is speaking with a British accent. Similarly 'Parked the car' would be 'pahked deh cah' when someone from Boston is speaking, because they drop the 'r' and soften the 't'.

I cannot reference a specific example right now, but I have read some good books that handled the vernacular of the area being written about, and the various accents protrayed, well. Overall your writing is very good, these are just ideas that might help you become even better.

I am flattered that you consider my writing to be "very good".

This thread is nearly a year old. Because of my current eye-sight issues, I had to have the computer read every post on it loud to me, to remember what was being said.

I am still someone who, through my imagination, sees and feels the story before putting it into words. And who, when reading, converts the words into images, sounds, and sensations.

I like to think that I am now better at it, than I was last year. Although, until my eyesight returns, I can't really "see" for myself, since reading with my eyes is limited to short bursts.

You make a good point on vernaculars. (Although I must say, I'm not sure which English accent would cut the 'h' out of 'hopped', I'm quite sure it's not the 'British' accent, as portrayed by the Queen or news-speakers.)

In my own country, only one person speaks pure Danish. And that would be our queen, her Royal Majesty, the Queen, Margrethe II. Everybody else speaks in 'vernaculars'.


I do agree, that in the future, my stories could benefit from more vernacular research. Sometimes it does add an extra dimension when a character's accent is more specifically specified.

In real life, it certainly adds a lot of spice to first impressions.

Like how my own Sea-landish (sjællandske) Copenhagenish accent, makes the Danish non-copenhageners I meet even more likely to think of me as an...

Right, let's not go there.

Thank you very much for the advice and the kind words.