Hang in there Maine!

[sugaredwalls]

Shit, I hate this.

Maine is getting the prop 8 treatment that California got last year at this time. It's prop 1 and it's a deadlock at this time, evenly split for overturning gay marriage and 48% for keeping it legal. It's the same group who handled the prop 8 campaign, up to their usual tricks, targeting schools as being forced to teach gay marriage and the usual other garbage they spew to sway voters.

Sorry if I am sounding all lecturing but this is what happens when making gay marriage legal is not amended to the state constitution, these anti-gay marriage groups can come along and put it right back on the ballot. Of course this varies from state to state, according to their bylaws for putting initiatives on the ballot but it's the basic gist of how gay marriage is legal one minute and illegal the next.

I'm just gonna hope for the best, that the voters of Maine do the right thing!

 

[Safe_Bet]

Shit, I hate this.

Maine is getting the prop 8 treatment that California got last year at this time. It's prop 1 and it's a deadlock at this time, evenly split for overturning gay marriage and 48% for keeping it legal. It's the same group who handled the prop 8 campaign, up to their usual tricks, targeting schools as being forced to teach gay marriage and the usual other garbage they spew to sway voters.

Sorry if I am sounding all lecturing but this is what happens when making gay marriage legal is not amended to the state constitution, these anti-gay marriage groups can come along and put it right back on the ballot. Of course this varies from state to state, according to their bylaws for putting initiatives on the ballot but it's the basic gist of how gay marriage is legal one minute and illegal the next.

I'm just gonna hope for the best, that the voters of Maine do the right thing!

I just donated $100 to Protect Maine Equality (and encourage EVERYONE else to donate as well!), but it's just a drop in the bucket compared to fuckers like the Roman Catholic Diocese of Portland, which gave more than $270,000.

WTF ever happen to the separation of church and state? A huge donation like that can buy enough advertising to swing an election. Somebody needs to 'splain to me how that is any different than preaching politics from the pulpit (which SHOULD make them lose their tax exempt status). Gawd damned hypocritical asshole!

 

[Epmd607]

I just donated $100 to Protect Maine Equality (and encourage EVERYONE else to donate as well!), but it's just a drop in the bucket compared to fuckers like the Roman Catholic Diocese of Portland, which gave more than $270,000.

WTF ever happen to the separation of church and state? A huge donation like that can buy enough advertising to swing an election. Somebody needs to 'splain to me how that is any different than preaching politics from the pulpit (which SHOULD make them lose their tax exempt status). Gawd damned hypocritical asshole!

Safest of Bets, tell me the name of this group that the Catholic Diocese of Portland donated to so I can pledge $100 and negate your donation. From what you wrote it sounds like you're saying you and the Catholic Diocese donated to Protect Maine Equality, but I know you so well I can infer your complete thought, almost telepathically.

 

[Safe_Bet]

I just donated $100 to Protect Maine Equality (and encourage EVERYONE else to donate as well!), but it's just a drop in the bucket compared to fuckers like the Roman Catholic Diocese of Portland, which gave more than $270,000.

WTF ever happen to the separation of church and state? A huge donation like that can buy enough advertising to swing an election. Somebody needs to 'splain to me how that is any different than preaching politics from the pulpit (which SHOULD make them lose their tax exempt status). Gawd damned hypocritical assholes!

Safest of Bets, tell me the name of this group that the Catholic Diocese of Portland donated to so I can pledge $100 and negate your donation. From what you wrote it sounds like you're saying you and the Catholic Diocese donated to Protect Maine Equality, but I know you so well I can infer your complete thought, almost telepathically.

Stop acting like such a dumb ass, Epmd. You know exactly what I meant.
(BTW, there isn't any DA in LGBTQ, sweetie... WTF are you posting in the queer forum for if not just to come fuck with me, hmmm?)

Now, first of all, I'd suggest that you get familiar with an issue before you shoot you mouth off. If you had done ANY research you'd know that the fucking RCC did not donate to Protect Maine Equality. PME are the folk fighting FOR LGBTQ rights. The RCC? not so much...

Secondly, you know me so well??? Never met you, dude. We've exchanged a few words in the freak'in poetry forum, but that's it. So I'm not your buddy; I'm not you little queer friend; I'm not somebody who has hardly ANYTHING in common with you and I'm not somebody that thinks you are witty or "cute", K?

Lastly, just for clarity's sake, here are the pertinent links:

http://www.protectmaineequality.org/index.cfm

http://www.portlanddiocese.org

 

[Night_Jasmine]

I don't understand people..seriously don't. Why the heck do they have to infringe on the rights of others?

 

[sugaredwalls]

I just donated $100 to Protect Maine Equality (and encourage EVERYONE else to donate as well!), but it's just a drop in the bucket compared to fuckers like the Roman Catholic Diocese of Portland, which gave more than $270,000.

WTF ever happen to the separation of church and state? A huge donation like that can buy enough advertising to swing an election. Somebody needs to 'splain to me how that is any different than preaching politics from the pulpit (which SHOULD make them lose their tax exempt status). Gawd damned hypocritical asshole!

I can't even begin to tell you how much that pisses me off, they get to use their pulpit as a political platform and they don't spend a dime in taxes.

This is why gay marriage needs to be amended federally, so we don't to keep doing this back and forth bullshit of gay marriage being legal and then illegal.

Lots of money means the bigots can just make shit up and spew it out in an ad. WTF? They sit there and go on and on about how gay marriage ruins the sanctity of marriage. It's so false and so disingenuous to do that. For the so called "values" crowd, they certainly are a bunch of egregious liars.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

Love is love...but people just don't respect it. It's too different to them and humans, by nature, shun that which is different.

Seriously though, they need a wake up call.

 

[Terra_Cide]

I've voted No on 1 yesterday (thanks to early voting). I know lots of fellow supporters of No on 1 who voted early either by absentee ballot or early voting.

 

[John Doe]

Stop acting like such a dumb ass, Epmd. You know exactly what I meant.
(BTW, there isn't any DA in LGBTQ, sweetie... WTF are you posting in the queer forum for if not just to come fuck with me, hmmm?)

There are plenty GLBTQ dumbasses. Don't be a chauvinist.

 

[Terra_Cide]

We did our best, but in the end it wasn't good enough. *sigh*

 

[kbate]

.....

 

[Stella_Omega]

The percentage that tipped this over was just about the sme percentage that tipped the issue in CA-- about 3%.

So really the nation is nearly equally divided on the topic. Damn near half of us believe that marriage should not be defined by the bigots.

That's a hell of a lot more than it was when I was a kid, when simply being gay got you arrested, and the idea of marriage was so far away that none of us even remotely considered it.

But I am in tears this morning. And i know certain small minded pismires on AH are going to be crowing and dancing and I want a shotgun that can blast them through their miniscule brains, right through the internet.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The churches and religious and conservative groups who fight against gay marriage, do not get their money and power in a vacuum. Never forget that.

They represent a lot of people - who when pressed, truly want queers to be kicked down a notch, or at best are indifferent to us.

You do not chop down a great tree with a single stroke, you nibble at it and eventually it falls. Blame, accusations and recrimination serve nobody.

Calling for church political reform is particularly pointless, or do you want the Methodist church to stop donating to liberal causes and politicians? Churches teach their own beliefs, and may or may not use their money to support them. That is what Freedom is about. Would you limit people and institutions to only the freedoms you think are valid?

yes, i want the Methodist church to stop supporting politicians. I want the Catholic church, the Baptist church, the Overweening Church of selfrighteousness up your ass-- ALL churches must stop supporting politics.

Churches can pay taxes or get out of our secular system. If a church can talk its members into sending money to some senator-- OUTSIDE of whatever tithe they suck out of their sheep-- I cant stop that. But don't go collecting money for The Lord's Work-- pardon me while I vomit-- and then give it to a political party of any stripe.

 

[kbate]

.....

 

[Stella_Omega]

And if the church's members are donating to the church, as many people donate to other tax exempt PACS, in order to do what they consider the lord's work - their money should not be allowed to count?

The church did not get it's power from God. The Church has power because it has millions of members who believe it is doing right, and donate money to do just that. Why can't The Lord be working through politics in a political society? To deny that ability is to completely deny the entire church as a valid concept.

we are a SECULAR nation.

We are not that a nation that acknowledges any Lord of any sort-- not the Xtian God, not Allah, not Dagon, not Lord Vishnu.

You want to join a church, and let its clergy throat-fuck your wallet, so be it. I would never tell you you were wrong. But if that clergy decide to take the money you gave them and use it to further the ends they dictate-- nu-huh. They can pay federal taxes on it. Just like any other money-making concern.

A church is not a Political Action Committee. Not by any stretch of the imagination. If your religious beliefs lead you to political action, you can create a PAC-- but not under the umbrella of your church. You want to give tithe to your church, go ahead-- but you don't get to count it as political money at the same time. Those are two separate donations, two separate purposes.

 

[kbate]

.....

 

[Stella_Omega]

and the churches have created all of those foundations anyway;

http://afa.net
http://www.alliancedefensefund.org

for two; you can google for plenty more.

If you want to put your political money to good use, try these groups;
http://couragecampaign.org

http://moveon.org

http://dccc.org

http://truemajority.org

for a few; there are more.

ETA: I want, and actively campaign, to make churches still more toothless. If ever there were a case of a righteousness gang absolutely imposing its will on the rest of us-- the Xtian church is that, here in the USA.

 

[Netzach]

I think it's time to hose this HRC notion of fighting it out in the states.

Asking nicely to be human never works. The supreme court will either cause us to join civilization or be a worldwide backwater of human rights.

 

[Netzach]

The churches and religious and conservative groups who fight against gay marriage, do not get their money and power in a vacuum. Never forget that.

They represent a lot of people - who when pressed, truly want queers to be kicked down a notch, or at best are indifferent to us.

You do not chop down a great tree with a single stroke, you nibble at it and eventually it falls. Blame, accusations and recrimination serve nobody.

Calling for church political reform is particularly pointless, or do you want the Methodist church to stop donating to liberal causes and politicians? Churches teach their own beliefs, and may or may not use their money to support them. That is what Freedom is about. Would you limit people and institutions to only the freedoms you think are valid?

The funneling of outstate money in UNREPORTED CHURCH LAUNDERED AMOUNTS is the issue. We know how much money went in from progressive secular groups. We actually have no idea how much more than reported went in from outstate church groups.

Freedom of belief doesn't put you outside the law.

 

[Netzach]

I'd personally be in favor of taxing every fucking dime that's not directly charitable. As in clothing and feeding the poor, buying books for children, paying indigent hospital bills - all that happy horseshit.

If you want to start a church that believes boogers are the divine eminence of light and perfection, fine. Do charitable work - untaxed. Convincing me to bow to my used tissues - taxed. Simple.

 

[none2_none2]

I don't know why you all mention just the churches. The churches aren't present in the voting booth -- only the individual voter.

I find Maine a revolting state where live and let live is a given lip service -- or should I say puff service. They are more interested in chemical masturbation if they have a headache or belly ache than allowing people people equal rights for their significant other... Disgusting.

 

[John Doe]

I think it's time to hose this HRC notion of fighting it out in the states.

Asking nicely to be human never works. The supreme court will either cause us to join civilization or be a worldwide backwater of human rights.

So you believe it should be a federal issue and not a state issue?

 

[Stella_Omega]

So you believe it should be a federal issue and not a state issue?

That's what it took to establish racial rights.

Unfortunately, there are some things states cannot be allowed to control-- things that impinge on our entire nation's well-being.

Like school standards, marriage unions, militia...

 

[Netzach]

So you believe it should be a federal issue and not a state issue?

Yes. Rights are not a referendum. State's Rights are a kind of bullshit argument when it comes to this, it was before and it is now. Without Loving V Texas that asshole in LA is entitled to do what he did, and be in the state funded business of marrying people unless he has a problem with their racial backgrounds if that's the bug up his ass. Without federal intervention half of us still might not be voting.

And I see marriage as basically a question of property assets and rights concerning those. The sentiment of love is not a legislated one.

When it's a question of whether I want to split my assets with Aunt Mildred, my female lover or my dog, it should be a federal issue, and my own damn business.

Marriage is very malleable in definition, but it's ALWAYS an economic issue.

 

[Netzach]

I don't know why you all mention just the churches. The churches aren't present in the voting booth -- only the individual voter.

I find Maine a revolting state where live and let live is a given lip service -- or should I say puff service. They are more interested in chemical masturbation if they have a headache or belly ache than allowing people people equal rights for their significant other... Disgusting.

I don't mention the voter because I know that most people are ignorant phobic buttheads, we seem to be caught in a masochistic desire to find that out state by state. That's utterly beside the point as to whether people ought to be able to marry their partner. It shouldn't be voted on in the first place. It's so clearly an example of unequal protection under the law that this whole thing is a charade.

I hope you don't ever know anyone sick enough to require medical weed.

It's not one or the other. That's revolting.